Proposal: Leafs should move Frederik Andersen

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tit

Toast and jam
Sep 23, 2018
500
299
Leafs need to draft and develop the goalie of the future.
Right now I don't see one.
Trading our only one isn't a good idea, regardless of who you bring in.

We need to solidify the future. I'm not sold on the kids in the system right now.

Until then, Andersen sticks out at least his contract and probably a resign when it's done.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dukeofjive

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
49,709
59,435
His slide almost exactly correlates with losing Muzzin to injury and directly correlates to losing both Rielly and Muzzin to injury.

Andersen isn't the issue. Your defence is very young and patchwork with your two best guys out.
It's still a slide though. Yes the defense is worse, but his performance isn't as good as it should be. It happens to even the best goalies. He has a .881 sv% in January, and that's not on the defense. Even Hutch has been better this month
 

deckercky

Registered User
Oct 27, 2010
9,379
2,452
Obviously the Leafs need to trade Andersen because they've shown that their team is successful regardless of who's in net.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dukeofjive

Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,782
16,606
I kind of hope the Leafs do trade Andersen. Then Leaf fans can see just how leaky their defense is when he's not around.

Are we just not going to play a goalie at all, or is Andersen uniquely good and getting robbed of Vezinas?

I don't think people realize that the goals he's letting in right now are weak unscreened wrist shots from beyond the circles. There is no defense in the league that consistently prevents these nothing chances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeafsNation75

Commander Clueless

Hiya, hiya. Pleased to meetcha.
Sep 10, 2008
15,394
3,203
We at least owe Freddy one iteration of a Leafs team that isn't crap defensively before we start this talk.

I do fear he will price himself out of our range when his contract is up, however.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NikoEhlers

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,754
46,778
Are we just not going to play a goalie at all, or is Andersen uniquely good and getting robbed of Vezinas?

I don't think people realize that the goals he's letting in right now are weak unscreened wrist shots from beyond the circles. There is no defense in the league that consistently prevents these nothing chances.

Who is available in this hypothetical scenario that's better than him?

And it's one thing to say he's been struggling the last half dozen games, but it seems like some fans are acting as though the Andersen we saw versus Chicago is the one that's been there most of the year.

Andersen hasn't been great in January, but there's a tendency among Leaf fans to pretend like there's absolutely nothing wrong with how the Leafs are playing defense and so if they let in more than 2 goals, it's clearly Andersen playing like a sieve.
 

Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,782
16,606
Who is available in this hypothetical scenario that's better than him?

And it's one thing to say he's been struggling the last half dozen games, but it seems like some fans are acting as though the Andersen we saw versus Chicago is the one that's been there most of the year.

Andersen hasn't been great in January, but there's a tendency among Leaf fans to pretend like there's absolutely nothing wrong with how the Leafs are playing defense and so if they let in more than 2 goals, it's clearly Andersen playing like a sieve.

He's been playing like this since November. You get 2/3 Chicago level games and 1/3 is a passable game where he "only" lets in 2-4 goals after we have a big enough lead that it doesn't matter. We've just been outscoring teams and not letting them get out of their zone when we're on so the problem hasn't looked as bad.

We wouldn't be that much worse off if we just took his 5 mil to UFA and came up with a Lehner/Varlamov or a Khudobin/Halak platoon. HF really likes to overstate how much he bails us out based on them watching 2-3 games where he's a brick wall and ignore the games where he'd struggle to save a rec league wrister.

If the tradeoff for cycling this aggressively in the opponent's zone is that they get a couple odd man rushes, I take that tradeoff and expect my goalie/backcheckers to stop at least half of them. When the offense is clicking at 4 goals per game since Keefe took over, I really can't complain about the odd man rushes. The problem is that they're not what's burning us, it's routine shots that the other team is taking just to get a whistle half the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LeafsNation75

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,754
46,778
He's been playing like this since November. You get 2/3 Chicago level games and 1/3 is a passable game where he "only" lets in 2-4 goals after we have a big enough lead that it doesn't matter. We've just been outscoring teams and not letting them get out of their zone when we're on so the problem hasn't looked as bad.

We wouldn't be that much worse off if we just took his 5 mil to UFA and came up with a Lehner/Varlamov or a Khudobin/Halak platoon. HF really likes to overstate how much he bails us out based on them watching 2-3 games where he's a brick wall and ignore the games where he'd struggle to save a rec league wrister.

If the tradeoff for cycling this aggressively in the opponent's zone is that they get a couple odd man rushes, I take that tradeoff and expect my goalie/backcheckers to stop at least half of them. When the offense is clicking at 4 goals per game since Keefe took over, I really can't complain about the odd man rushes. The problem is that they're not what's burning us, it's routine shots that the other team is taking just to get a whistle half the time.

As I said, he hasn't been great this last little stretch. But Leaf fans seem to focus on an outing like he had versus Chicago, but ignore games like versus the Canucks a few weeks back where the Leafs were giving up a million breakaways and Andersen stoned them to allow the Leafs to win like 4-1 or whatever the score was. Then there's the Jets' game (not this recent one, the one in Winnipeg) where Andersen made like 45 saves and Helleybuck gave up something like 5 goals on 12 shots on the other end. I think he's performed closer to the Jets and Canucks game more often this season than he has the Hawks game.

I'm a fan of Lehner's game and think he's turned it around, but I'd be surprised if the Leafs had the same kind of success with the other three goalies you mentioned in place of Andersen. I think you guys have a tendency to blame any defensive breakdown that leads to a goal on Andersen not "making the big save" when you shouldn't be expecting a goalie to do that as often as the Leafs require him to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NikoEhlers

Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,782
16,606
As I said, he hasn't been great this last little stretch. But Leaf fans seem to focus on an outing like he had versus Chicago, but ignore games like versus the Canucks a few weeks back where the Leafs were giving up a million breakaways and Andersen stoned them to allow the Leafs to win like 4-1 or whatever the score was. Then there's the Jets' game (not this recent one, the one in Winnipeg) where Andersen made like 45 saves and Helleybuck gave up something like 5 goals on 12 shots on the other end. I think he's performed closer to the Jets and Canucks game more often this season than he has the Hawks game.

I'm a fan of Lehner's game and think he's turned it around, but I'd be surprised if the Leafs had the same kind of success with the other three goalies you mentioned in place of Andersen. I think you guys have a tendency to blame any defensive breakdown that leads to a goal on Andersen not "making the big save" when you shouldn't be expecting a goalie to do that as often as the Leafs require him to.

You're ignoring what I'm saying. We don't need him to "make the big save" every time, we know we're going to get scored on. The way the offense plays, we're going to give up odd-man rushes when we've been cycling for a minute at a time. We're just going to score on you more than you're going to score on those rushes over a long enough sample. Some of the rushes are going in, that's ok. Penalty shots only go in a third of the time, I'm hoping our goalie can get that down to a quarter of the time when he has the advantage of backcheckers helping him.

What's killing us is the routine shots going in on top of those rushes. What's killing us is Freddy letting in the first shot of the game or back to back goals within a minute of each-other. Those aren't on the defense, those are mental fragility. It's the same thing that happens in game 7s, he's easy to get off his game.

Again, it's not "a little stretch", it's going on 2 months now, or half the season. His December save% was .904, his January is .881.
 

LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
You're ignoring what I'm saying. We don't need him to "make the big save" every time, we know we're going to get scored on. The way the offense plays, we're going to give up odd-man rushes when we've been cycling for a minute at a time. We're just going to score on you more than you're going to score on those rushes over a long enough sample. Some of the rushes are going in, that's ok. Penalty shots only go in a third of the time, I'm hoping our goalie can get that down to a quarter of the time when he has the advantage of backcheckers helping him.

What's killing us is the routine shots going in on top of those rushes. What's killing us is Freddy letting in the first shot of the game or back to back goals within a minute of each-other. Those aren't on the defense, those are mental fragility. It's the same thing that happens in game 7s, he's easy to get off his game.

Again, it's not "a little stretch", it's going on 2 months now. His December save% was .904, his January is .881.
The 2 goals Andersen allowed against Toews is what I thought were bad goals, plus both went through his 5 hole and that area is where most of the pucks get past him.
 

Jerkbait

Registered User
Dec 12, 2019
4,101
814
He gets one more shot at playoff success. Another game 7 egg and he on market. Question is who is better ? Andersen gets job done in reg season but you need a clutch goalie come fame 7 time in Boston... matt murray for kapanen?
 

Mrfenn92

Proud to be American
Sponsor
Nov 27, 2018
30,743
30,127
Chicago,Illinois
Leafs trade with Chicago for R. Lehner, kapanen and marincins, plus picks

Leafs then trade F. Andersen to New
Jersey for M. Blackwwod, and Blake Colemans and picks.

Why would Toronto trade Anderson at all?
Also why would the hawks or the devils do those deals you propose?
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,754
46,778
What's killing us is the routine shots going in on top of those rushes. What's killing us is Freddy letting in the first shot of the game or back to back goals within a minute of each-other. Those aren't on the defense, those are mental fragility. It's the same thing that happens in game 7s, he's easy to get off his game.

The things you're describing are the scenarios most goalies will let in a bulk of goals, if it's a continuous thing by the defense. You said yourself that your team's style will likely result in more odd man rushes than a more conservative team, so why would you expect Andersen's save percentages to be closer to goalies who play for teams that don't give up many odd man rushes?

And you're also making it sound like Andersen is constantly letting in these backbreakers without acknowledging the fact he's stolen you guys games where you're giving up a ridiculous amount of shots/chances. If the Leafs had lost those games I referenced against the Jets and Canucks, Leaf fans would have been beating on the "we need Andersen to make a damn save" drum instead of acknowledging how piss poor the Leafs played defensively those two nights because the Leafs ended up winning and Andersen bailed them out.

When a goalie is consistently facing the number of odd man rushes or sloppy performances in their own zone as much as Andersen does, it will also result in more "iffy" performances. If you play behind a rock solid defense, 9 times out of 10 you'll have an easy night and only have to play outstanding 1 time out of 10, it's a lot easier to do that than if you know you'll have to play behind a leaky defense and have to play outstanding 6 times out of 10 for your team to have a shot at winning.

I mean, I just think Leaf fans like to scapegoat him. If Andersen does leave, I think you'll see your new goalie get the same complaints eventually because of the way the Leafs play.
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
150,834
100,698
Tarnation
Move him? Maybe into a hyperbaric chamber and layer him in bubble-wrap when he's not at the rink. They need him to be Freddie almost every night. The last thing they need to do is ship him out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dukeofjive

Jerkbait

Registered User
Dec 12, 2019
4,101
814
Problem is andersen is fine during reg season. Yes he been inconsistent lately but in general he been fine. Its playoffs that hurt. Also who out there is better right now .

I'd say Matt murray for playoff time but that would cost a ridiculous amount at this time . Just cant see that happening. Lehner is no upgrade. Crawford no. Options are limited
 

Just Linda

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
6,652
6,539
Wasn't there just a Andersen for Murray trade thread a few days ago? Wasn't it just as bad.

Some fans don't deserve their players
 

BeLeafInTheFuture

Registered User
Jul 4, 2018
156
192
Scotland
Who is available in this hypothetical scenario that's better than him?

And it's one thing to say he's been struggling the last half dozen games, but it seems like some fans are acting as though the Andersen we saw versus Chicago is the one that's been there most of the year.

Andersen hasn't been great in January, but there's a tendency among Leaf fans to pretend like there's absolutely nothing wrong with how the Leafs are playing defense and so if they let in more than 2 goals, it's clearly Andersen playing like a sieve.

You should read our board then, especially during the Florida game and Chicago one. So many over-reactions to the guy who has been our rock since he came here. See with a lot of Leafs fans on these boards, rather than blame the team, they HAVE to have a scapegoat that will eventually get chased out of town.

You had guys during the last game quoting stats that proved we had better chances than Chicago did....but guess what...the offense didn't take them and statistics don't mean anything if you can't take the chances. All goalies go through bad slumps, Andersen is never any different, he'll be back to his best in no time.

Edit: Now that Babcock's gone, it seems like Freddie is the new scapegoat that the pitchforks are out for.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad