Pre-Game Talk: Leafs @ Penguins home opener

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SeenSchenn2

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Jun 15, 2010
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Kostka has played the 2nd most minutes among our dmen the first two games (27 min last night :amazed:) and done a solid job so I'd be pretty surprised if Carlyle took him out.

For sure. It was just a suggestion, I mean I don't see him playing like this the whole year lol.

Gunnarsson was absolutely horrible last night...

Not horrible lol, average.

Kostka is a feel good story, but with a healthy defence core, he is no better than a 7th or 8th defenceman on this team in the long run. Plain and simple.

100% my thoughts as well. Hence why I kept him out of my line-up.
 

showtime8

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Jun 30, 2010
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Franson hasn't played 2 steady years of D for this team. Franson was a 6/7 guy last year where Gunnarsson played 20+ mins on multiple occasions.

If we're going on that standard, Grabo hasn't done anything on the scoreboard these last two games... lets get Steckel in there. Change it up.

The basis that I was going on was that Gunnarsson had a brutal game and I thought he should sit for a game.

Why would we base any argument or justification on what people have done in the past? Might as well send Kadri back if that's the case right?
 

topched

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Nov 19, 2008
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Toronto, Ontario
glad you had a laugh.

now some education? RC, the coach, will want the top pair to be on the ice as much as they can against the other team's top players. Not only on PP or PK. 5 on 5 as well. CG is an effective dman but not with that many minutes. 20 minutes a night is a stretch for CG, let alone 27 or 28 the top pair will play

Sorry you took offence to that "laugh" comment. No need to get on edge. :laugh:

I'll spell it out a little more. Should CG, Liles, Gards, or even Kostka be playing 25 mins a night on the top pairing? No way. Not on a playoff team.

Do we have better options at this time? No. We need a solid stay at home guy to pair with Phaneuf, someone who compliments his skills well and can log those big minutes you were talking about. Unfortunately we don't have that right now.

You can either put our only true "stay at home" guy with Phaneuf in Komisarek... except the guy loses his keys on a regular basis and can't get into the house. Other option is to put a two way guy like Gunnar who is proven or Kostka who is inexperienced but has faired ok so far.

Basically its pick your poison.
 
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bunjay

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Nov 9, 2008
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glad you had a laugh.

now some education? RC, the coach, will want the top pair to be on the ice as much as they can against the other team's top players. Not only on PP or PK. 5 on 5 as well. CG is an effective dman but not with that many minutes. 20 minutes a night is a stretch for CG, let alone 27 or 28 the top pair will play

A d-man usually only ends up with 27+ minutes if he's also on the #1PP unit. Gunnarsson has in the past been on the top pairing with Phaneuf at even strength and looked fine. This can be done while still keeping him in the 20 minute range, that's actually about how many ES minutes Phaneuf gets.
 

Patty Lee

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Glad you took offence to that "laugh" comment. No need to get on edge. :laugh:

I'll spell it out for you a little. Should CG, Liles, Gards, or even Kostka be playing 25 mins a night on the top pairing? No way. Not on a playoff team.

Do we have better options at this time? No. We need a solid stay at home guy to pair with Phaneuf, someone who compliments his skills well and can log those big minutes you were talking about. Unfortunately we don't have that right now.

You can either put our only true "stay at home" guy with Phaneuf in Komisarek... except the guy loses his keys on a regular basis and can't get into the house. Other option is to put a two way guy like Gunnar who is proven or Kostka who is inexperienced but has faired ok so far.

Basically its pick your poison.
why do you think Dion needs a stay at home d man?

that's where your logic is flawed. if you are only giving me the choice of Gunnarsson and Komi than yes, I will pick Gunn. But that's not your only option.
 

Patty Lee

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A d-man usually only ends up with 27+ minutes if he's also on the #1PP unit. Gunnarsson has in the past been on the top pairing with Phaneuf at even strength and looked fine. This can be done while still keeping him in the 20 minute range, that's actually about how many ES minutes Phaneuf gets.
as I already stated, IMO 20 is a stretch for CG
 

Pi

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Nov 16, 2010
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Today in practice, Kadri spent time with Kessel and Lupul on the PP.

I freakin' love Carlyle. He's a smart coach and I think he realizes Bozak on the PP is not the way to go. I like Bozak as a player and his route to the NHL but he just doesn't have the "it" factor on the PP. Almost as predictable as Kaberle was.
 

TieClark

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Jun 14, 2011
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Let me guess...you think he was at fault for the second goal, and that he took a bad penalty in the third...

No he just sucked the entire game. I've never been a fan, I think he's a bottom pairing defender that extremely overrated on here especially, but that was by far the worst game I've seen him play.
 

Patty Lee

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Today in practice, Kadri spent time with Kessel and Lupul on the PP.

I freakin' love Carlyle. He's a smart coach and I think he realizes Bozak on the PP is not the way to go. I like Bozak as a player and his route to the NHL but he just doesn't have the "it" factor on the PP. Almost as predictable as Kaberle was.
the one thing he does bring over Kadri is at the FO dot. going to be more successful on the PP when you start with the puck. Kadri needs to get better if he wants to stay on the 1st PP unit
 

bunjay

Registered User
Nov 9, 2008
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No he just sucked the entire game. I've never been a fan, I think he's a bottom pairing defender that extremely overrated on here especially, but that was by far the worst game I've seen him play.

Well, now I know to take your opinions with a giant grain of salt, I guess.
 

topched

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Nov 19, 2008
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Toronto, Ontario
why do you think Dion needs a stay at home d man?

that's where your logic is flawed. if you are only giving me the choice of Gunnarsson and Komi than yes, I will pick Gunn. But that's not your only option.

There's a reason that he never gets paired with a pmd. Two years ago he started with Kaberle, last year he started with Liles. He hasn't been paired with Gards often. It hasn't worked yet.

Dion likes to rush the puck, as do the other guys mentioned. You limit the ability of both dmen offensively (which is their forte) because one of them has to harness their offensive ability to compensate.

When Dion was at his best in Calgary, he was paired with Regehr, who is a shutdown guy. He's looked good recently because Kostka has played a simple game, concentrated on taking care of his own end and letting Phaneuf do his thing.

I wouldn't complain if Carlyle tried again and paired him with Liles or Gardiner... but I'm not hopeful that it will work out.
 

topched

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Nov 19, 2008
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Toronto, Ontario
Liles has been terrible, if you ask me.

Maybe he should take a seat himself.

Surprising. I thought he's been the 3rd best guy so far, behind Phaneuf and Kostka. Hasn't been caught out of position often and has been able to compensate for the slugs he's been paired with in Holzer and Franson by using his speed.

PP hasn't clicked all that well, but I wouldn't put it all on Liles.
 

Patty Lee

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There's a reason that he never gets paired with a pmd. Two years ago he started with Kaberle, last year he started with Liles. He hasn't been paired with Gards often. It hasn't worked yet.

Dion likes to rush the puck, as do the other guys mentioned. You limit the ability of both dmen offensively (which is their forte) because one of them has to harness their offensive ability to compensate.

When Dion was at his best in Calgary, he was paired with Regehr, who is a shutdown guy. He's looked good recently because Kostka has played a simple game, concentrated on taking care of his own end and letting Phaneuf do his thing.

I wouldn't complain if Carlyle tried again and paired him with Liles or Gardiner... but I'm not hopeful that it will work out.
you can't compare how he played D with Ron Wilson coaching vs now.

in "camp" he was paired with Reily.

why hasn't he been with Gunn the last 2 games??

also, nothing wrong with rushing the puck as long as you're back when you need to be.
 

Patty Lee

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Surprising. I thought he's been the 3rd best guy so far, behind Phaneuf and Kostka. Hasn't been caught out of position often and has been able to compensate for the slugs he's been paired with in Holzer and Franson by using his speed.

PP hasn't clicked all that well, but I wouldn't put it all on Liles.
especially since he's been on the second unit.

man it would be nice to be able to skate like that
 

bunjay

Registered User
Nov 9, 2008
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Surprising. I thought he's been the 3rd best guy so far, behind Phaneuf and Kostka. Hasn't been caught out of position often and has been able to compensate for the slugs he's been paired with in Holzer and Franson by using his speed.

PP hasn't clicked all that well, but I wouldn't put it all on Liles.

You know what was funny? Armstrong with a clear break in the Montreal game, only to have Liles come in from half a rink away to take the puck from him.

God I'm glad that guy is gone. Jason Allison, without the skill or grit.
 

TootooTrain

Sandpaper
Jun 12, 2010
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Liles has been terrible, if you ask me.

Maybe he should take a seat himself.

He's been one of the better defensemen so far. His use of his stick to deflect passes has been particularly good. He has earned his icetime thus far.

I don't get the Kostka love. I lost count how many times he fanned an important shot.

There's a bit of a leash here with him considering it's his first experience in the NHL. He's shown he can be a offensive juggernaut at the AHL level, as long as he's solid defensively, he'll get a chance to break out.
 
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