Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose

[fahad203]

They lucked into the best goalie tandem in the NHL.

They drafted Swayman. Who the leafs were supposed to draft and promised Swayman

Leafs the pick before picks Scott. Who could have been good not for the injuries

Weird luck indeed

 

[Fogelhund]

Babcock was responsible for Hyman. Ppl wanted hyman off the team after 2017 or playing 4th line

Keefe did get Bunting to where he is now

Kap/Brown/AJ had better years with Babcock or off the leafs then with leafs while Keefe coached (Brown wasnt here for keefe)

He coached well on the marlies and got guys going but in the NHL he hasnt developed many guys into players we expected as they came out of the AHL

You've conveniently dismissed that Keefe coached these guys on the Marlies. Got the guys to the NHL? The NHL isn't a development league..

This is an extreme case of blinders, that completely ignores history.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Solid grinding game last night at Scotia .. Isles played it tight and forced Leafs forwards to attack net which they didn't - no surprise - til last seconds .. we lost game on Isles forecheck late .. Brodie was a step slow and made a bad board pass to Rielly who tried a skilled touch pass instead of taking a hit and eating a puck OR going high and hard on glass .. once puck got lost then Engval (folks Engval??????????) outmuscled Rielly to net and it was over .. BAD BAD BAD D in every single way possible .. folks no pro team can win with that D .. that was a pretty simple sequence lost by our D .. we need a couple defensive D very very badly if we plan on passing round 1 this year .. as i stated games tighten up and time and space on puck decreases after new year and it will only get worse as teams fight for playoff spots .. scoring dries up and games get decided by D and G

I'm shocked I tell ya, absolutely shocked.

More likely they give marner a new bentley for even broaching the subject and then when he refuses they will pony up and make him the highest paid winger in the nhl, full nmc, heavily front loaded. Leafs negotiations 101.

I wish I could say that this isn't 100% accurate.

 

[ToneDog]

Dubas gave JT a better deal (13.84%) and his best season was 86 points.
Dubas gave Matthews a better deal (14.64%) and his best season was 69 points.
Dubas gave Marner a slightly smaller deal (13.38%) and his best season was 69 points.

When Tre gave Nylander that deal (13.77%) his best season was 87 points.

You are bang on but in hindsight, all mistakes. To me Willie not giving a discount because Matty did not is all I need to hear. Add Marner only agreeing to his deal after somebody leaked it, and you have three me first players who are not capable of carrying a team. I expect them to be golfing, and hitting the cottage in early May.

 

[Nineteen67]

I like what I have seen by Woll, however his ankle problems are gonna be a problem. Asked what he worked on in the off season Woll says "making my ankles stronger"....then hurts his ankle bad on a nothing play. Its not the first time he has had issues and my guess is it wont be the last...unfortunately.


How anyone could count on Woll with any confidence is beyond me....How many games has he played in the nhl? How many injuries has he had? How many ankle injuries? Im just sayin....I like Woll but to count on him to be our main guy seems like a pretty big ask imo.

That’s why I used the word “may”.

I‘ve said all along this was an audition year for Woll, and if he passed they could check off that need. So far, it‘s still unknown if he’s the answer.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Nylander’s contract is by far the worst contract in the league. Honestly, he is not even that good of a hockey player. Bottom 6 Winger.

Probably sarcasm, however he's still making under $7M so he's still in a good contract. Next year though..... Yeah if we were going to sign him to $11.5M we should have just waited till the end of the season. I personally don't think he's "mailing it in" because of the contract, but something has happened to him and I don't think it happens if he's still unsigned. Looks like a different player now in a bad way.

 

[Fogelhund]

Probably sarcasm, however he's still making under $7M so he's still in a good contract. Next year though..... Yeah if we were going to sign him to $11.5M we should have just waited till the end of the season. I personally don't think he's "mailing it in" because of the contract, but something has happened to him and I don't think it happens if he's still unsigned. Looks like a different player now in a bad way.

How many more points would Nylander have over the past couple of weeks, if Tavares could finish?

 

[ULF_55]

View attachment 815337

So between Nylander and Tavares they directed 24 shots, 1 tip goal.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Knies is on something like a 30pt pace playing alot of his season with supremely talented players.

Noone is saying he sucks but that offensive production is just not good enough and most would have expected more at the start of the year if they knew how much time he would get playing on the top lines.

Bad team building and coaching. Throwing a rookie onto the top line and saying "save us" because we can't afford decent secondary pieces (and missed so badly on the one we got) just screams "we're gonna f*** up your development, kid". At this points what's the difference between having Bert on the first line and Knies on the second or third line? Nylander has been doing God's work carrying JT and Bert but now that he's slowing down that second line is a blackhole offensively which you just can't have. At a minimum Bert and Knies need to switch. Ideally Knies ends up on the third line. Get Bert and his 1 goal in 28 games the f*** away from Nylander.

How many more points would Nylander have over the past couple of weeks, if Tavares could finish?

Or even Bert. I agree he's playing with Blackholes right now. Still though, can't go pointless in 6 of 9 or what ever the stat was when making $11.5. Or atleast, when you do you gotta find your game back quick. The team is too top heavy to have guys making premium coin lose their offensive output.

 

[myleafs]

LOL take it easy. Not obsessed, just having some fun with you because you were saying with such certainty that we'd be in first and my point all along was that there's nothing wrong with making predictions but guaranteeing things the way you were doing is kind of ridiculous. Anyhow, we're in February now so we don't need wait to see if anything unexpected happens the rest of the season, we already know that you were wrong. And yes it happens all the time, I hardly ever make predictions myself, I can only remember making four re. the Leafs during the last 10 years or so and I was wrong on one of them so there you go.

I'm so used to the Leafs doing dumb things that I don't expect Treliving to trade these guys either but as I said earlier, I'm generally more interested in discussing what should be done then reading people's minds. If we could get a first for Bertuzzi, I say we should do it in an instant.

I also dont make predictions since my last doozy.....I stated to anyone I knew that there was zero...ZERO chance the leafs would lose to the Habs during the pandemic. I would have bet the house on it if I had a house......thank god I didnt.

 

[ToneDog]

They drafted Swayman. Who the leafs were supposed to draft and promised Swayman

Leafs the pick before picks Scott. Who could have been good not for the injuries

Weird luck indeed

Gifted them Rask and passed on Swayman. The Leafs, the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Stephen]

You guys are obsessed with the first place thing. Turns out, barring the unexpected the rest of the season, I was wrong. I guess that never happens here?

Didn’t you make the prediction the Leafs would overtake Boston for 1st place “before the end of year” and then get into a thing about whether that would mean before New Years or right at the beginning of January? Maybe you didn’t specify which year.

 

[hamzarocks]

You've conveniently dismissed that Keefe coached these guys on the Marlies. Got the guys to the NHL? The NHL isn't a development league..

This is an extreme case of blinders, that completely ignores history.

Cooper got strong production/continued development from tampas later draf5ed/undrafted guys at the NHL level

Killorn, Palat, Tyler Johnson, Cernak, Gourde, Colton when he was there

Boston similar under Cassidy with:

Heinen, Debrusk, Frerderik, Carlo, Gryzlyk,

They find top 6/top 9 players and 3/4D who play big parts for their team

Teams have been able to contend and develop guys into big pieces for their windows

Pens with Pettersson, Rust, guentzel

Blues with Thomas, Kyrou, Dunn(when there),

We havent been able to find this balance. We are trying to contend but we can't get our promising young players to take the next step and be that 2ndary supporting core mix that can elevate the team and help us push through in the playoffs

 

[myleafs]

Dubas didn't get the job done, and spent a lot of futures in his failure. He's gone. Deservedly so- it was time for another approach. But that approach hasn't been good.

Problem is the leafs were not looking for another approach. Shanny was ready and willing to re-sign Dubas. In comes Tre and basically the philosophy is the same.

 

[Dog]

How many games have the Leafs lost just by a goal this year? Is it 13 games so far? That's a lot of lost points there! I mean if they managed to just forced overtime for about half and lost that's like 6 points. They need to start winning more as Redwings(2 more games played and 2 points behind) are closer in in the standings.

 

[TMLife17]

It’s irrelevant, no other team would pick up that contract, people bitch about JT’s deal now he’s regressed, wait till the last two years of Nylander’s contract, it’ll be way worse………


Why not? Other teams know the Leafs are against the cap and a slight over payment might be too much for the Leafs. I hope he stays, only bright spot on a otherwise pathetic defence……..

The difference is that we are competing right now and at the end of the Willy deal we will be comfortably out of our window unless we draft like absolute legends in deeper rounds.

 

[Evilhomer]

Didn’t you make the prediction the Leafs would overtake Boston for 1st place “before the end of year” and then get into a thing about whether that would mean before New Years or right at the beginning of January? Maybe you didn’t specify which year.

One of these years it will probably be correct. If Boston wins tonight there is no number of games in hand that is making up a 15 point deficit. Best hope now is to pass Florida, but that won't be easy if they keep pissing away games in hand like last night. I know it won't happen, but I really don't see the downside in making a coaching change right now.

 

[ToneDog]

Problem is the leafs were not looking for another approach. Shanny was ready and willing to re-sign Dubas. In comes Tre and basically the philosophy is the same.

Shanny needs to be gone. His biggest accomplishment in 10 years here is leading a tank and winning the lottery.

 

[Evilhomer]

I also dont make predictions since my last doozy.....I stated to anyone I knew that there was zero...ZERO chance the leafs would lose to the Habs during the pandemic. I would have bet the house on it if I had a house......thank god I didnt.

To be fair, every single one of us made the same prediction. The fact that Keefe kept his job after that disaster remains the most damning indictment of the current regime.

 

[Nineteen67]

Depends on how much further his game has regressed and of course the money. JT’s always been a quality person and a damn good player, would he be interested in staying in a drastically reduced role or retire?

If he can’t play in the top 6 I just can’t see him playing. He’s a very smart player but I’m not sure he’d be an effective 3rd line player.

 

[Fogelhund]

Cooper got strong production/continued development from tampas later draf5ed/undrafted guys at the NHL level

Killorn, Palat, Tyler Johnson, Cernak, Gourde, Colton when he was there

Boston similar under Cassidy with:

Heinen, Debrusk, Frerderik, Carlo, Gryzlyk,

They find top 6/top 9 players and 3/4D who play big parts for their team

Teams have been able to contend and develop guys into big pieces for their windows

Pens with Pettersson, Rust, guentzel

Blues with Thomas, Kyrou, Dunn(when there),

We havent been able to find this balance. We are trying to contend but we can't get our promising young players to take the next step and be that 2ndary supporting core mix that can elevate the team and help us push through in the playoffs

Ah... it's top 9 players now... and then he lists bottom pairing and 4th line players in this (in addition to some top 9/top 4), or players who were on their team in advance of that coach.

At some point, you just have to admit, you are looking for a reason to complain, and be done with it.

 

[rumman]

Maybe its the constant shilling of the leafs every day/game that people are responding to? If someone is gonna keep ramming their leafs are awesome and everyone else is lesser than narrative down peoples throats then I would think someone would expect some sort of response when certain predictions/statements turnout to be incorrect. imo

You reap what you sow, stop with the wild predictions and the backlash will end……..

If he can’t play in the top 6 I just can’t see him playing. He’s a very smart player but I’m not sure he’d be an effective 3rd line player.

I think his foot speeds or lack there of will force him to retire, guys had a solid career perhaps hall of fame isn’t out of the question……..

 

[Gary Nylund]

I also dont make predictions since my last doozy.....I stated to anyone I knew that there was zero...ZERO chance the leafs would lose to the Habs during the pandemic. I would have bet the house on it if I had a house......thank god I didnt.

I try to avoid making predictions since I have done my share of sports betting and I know anything can happen. I remember 4 predictions that I have made re. the Leafs, only one had to do with the outcome of games/series.

3 predictions that I got right, these were all super easy IMO:
Kessel contract extension with the Leafs, nailed both the dollar amount and term.
Phaneuf contract extension with the Leafs, nailed both the dollar amount and term.
JVR would not be extended by the Leafs.

The 1 prediction that I got wrong, of course it was the only one where I was so sure of the outcome that I predicted it. I never posted it here, it was just me talking to myself basically but still, I did make this prediction if I'm being honest (which I do try to be). I predicted that not only would the Leafs beat MTL in that playoff series, I predicted they would win the next round as well and represent Canada in the final 4. I thought this one was super easy too LOL, note to myself - never again make predictions about outcomes of sporting events! And if I had access to online sports betting like I do now, I would have bet on it (though not the house) LOL.

 

[1specter]

This might be the least I've enjoyed watching hockey in like 4-5 years. Last time I felt this unenthused was when they made the Kadri-Barrie trade, brought Babcock back and the team played soulless hockey until he was fired. And even after Keefe brought in they still embarrassed themselves with the Zamboni driver game etc.

 

[myleafs]

Babcock was responsible for Hyman. Ppl wanted hyman off the team after 2017 or playing 4th line

Keefe did get Bunting to where he is now

Kap/Brown/AJ had better years with Babcock or off the leafs then with leafs while Keefe coached (Brown wasnt here for keefe)

He coached well on the marlies and got guys going but in the NHL he hasnt developed many guys into players we expected as they came out of the AHL

I would suggest Bunting took the golden chance he had and did something with it.