Line Combos: Leafs Lines Next Season

[Wafflewhipper]

Would Nielson not be ahead of Dermott in the depth chart at this point?

Havent watched either one of them too closely personally

Yeah, he is ranked higher than Dermott. Both could be ready next year in defensive capacities. They won't and shouldn't get to play with the green light to go on offense then. They are of course on different development paths. Likely both are better than what we have right now after zaits,Gards and Rielly.

 

[Mugzy97]

JVR-Kadri-Marner
Leipsic-Matthews-Brown
Kapanen-Nylander-Komarov
Martin-Boyle/Gauthier-Hyman

Rielly-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Dermott
Hunwick-Carrick

Really like this. Lethal scoring 1st line. Really like Leiper with Matthews and Browny. Then the European line which wouldn't be a slouch on the scoresheet, followed by a gritty 4th line.

On D it'd be nice to bump Dermott down with Hunwick or pick up a RD to play with Gardiner and we could rotate Hunwick and Dermott. with Carrick as a 3rd pairing.

 

[Hotlanta]

Yeah, he is ranked higher than Dermott. Both could be ready next year in defensive capacities. They won't and shouldn't get to play with the green light to go on offense then. They are of course on different development paths. Likely both are better than what we have right now after zaits,Gards and Rielly.

Nielsen's defense is no where near NHL quality yet. Carrick and Hunwick are better than Dermott right now, and Polak can do things Dermott can't. However, I only expect Hunwick and Polak to decline while Dermott should continue to get exponentially better each year. Dermott is probably NHL ready for a #6 role on a bottom 10 team, but wouldn't you rather him develop for now as a #1 on an AHL team? I would rather him be able to step into and succeed in the NHL right away.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I believe Walshy lives in Canada. He catches the odd game.
I've seen you say this a few times that people aren't watching the games. Do you?
Nielsen is absolutely working on all those things, but Dermott is better than him right now without a doubt.

Edit
I do catch the marlies games every now and then

Yeah i do when i can get them and he has looked fine to me. He looks great for a Ahl rookie and the last two months or so has really been concentrating on defense. He is not playing first power play unit because its gifted to him either. I see it different and his usage by Keefe apparently does too.

 

[Kiwi]

Yeah, he is ranked higher than Dermott. Both could be ready next year in defensive capacities. They won't and shouldn't get to play with the green light to go on offense then. They are of course on different development paths. Likely both are better than what we have right now after zaits,Gards and Rielly.

In what world is Nielsen better than Dermott?
And no They are not better than Carrick Hunwick Polak

They have potential and Dermott may make the Leafs as soon as next year but in no way are either of them ready and Nielsen may never be the kids got some work to do

 

[kk87]

I like both players but I hope Komarov and Bozak are gone next year... the average age of our top 9 forwards would be like 22 Conventional wisdom would suggest it's prudent to have more veterans mixed in, but our young players have proved this year that they don't need the vets around to drag them down

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
JVR-Kadri-Brown
Leivo-Nylander-Kapanen
Martin-Boyle-Soshnikov
Leipsic

Rielly-x
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Hunwick-Carrick

 

[saltming]

Yeah i do when i can get them and he has looked fine to me. He looks great for a Ahl rookie and the last two months or so has really been concentrating on defense. He is not playing first power play unit because its gifted to him either. I see it different and his usage by Keefe apparently does too.

Atm Keefe is using him on 3rd pairing minutes with pp time.
I'm not saying he's not getting better, and I hope he continues because he will be massive for us if he turns out, but Dermott since return from injury is the marlies best defensman. He is slowly prying 1st pairing minutes away from Campbell. Olesky and Dermott are very solid all around. Also Dermott has been seeing 1st pp time of late over Nielsen.
I'm not saying Nielsen isn't going to be good or maybe even better than Dermott, but right now Dermott is closer to nhl ready.

 

[hamzarocks]

Nielsen has a higher ceiling than rielly imo but he isn't that likely to reach it. He needs to work on a few aspects of his game that can limit his impact (primarily skating and edge work). Dermott is a beast. Love the pick and he's gonna be nhl ready next season imo. If we are trying to assemble the best team possible next season dermott is on our 3 pairing anchoring it. Nielsen should be ready by 18-19 or the next season. To me he will replace gardiner's offense if he wants a contract to rich for our taste.

 

[Kiwi]

Atm Keefe is using him on 3rd pairing minutes with pp time.
I'm not saying he's not getting better, and I hope he continues because he will be massive for us if he turns out, but Dermott since return from injury is the marlies best defensman. He is slowly prying 1st pairing minutes away from Campbell. Olesky and Dermott are very solid all around. Also Dermott has been seeing 1st pp time of late over Nielsen.
I'm not saying Nielsen isn't going to be good or maybe even better than Dermott, but right now Dermott is closer to nhl ready.

It's not even close and I'm willing to bet it never will be Salt

 

[saltming]

It's not even close and I'm willing to bet it never will be Salt

It's a hard road for sure but he is only in his rookie season. Next year let's see what hand how he has or hasn't improved and go from there.
I doubt he will catch Dermott at this point but if he take 4 years I'm ok with that. It's just too early to be fully down on him.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

These guys know their weaknesses and work on them. https://www.thestar.com/sports/brea...ndrew-nielsen-making-strides-towards-nhl.html

This is a recent article from january, keefe depends on him and doesn't protect him. Just tells him what he needs to work on and this guy does it with a pretty level head. He is not cocky but rather modest and forthcoming about what he has to do to be a good pro. He is a very motivated player that is playing and learning for keeps.

How many times have we heard you can't teach hockey sense and skill that he has. Everyone that is doubting him is fine but i see the the talent and determination that will see him through. So he is not being protected for the most part and is the second highest scoring rookie defenseman in the ahl even with his warts. He is going to be a gooder.

 

[Kiwi]

It's a hard road for sure but he is only in his rookie season. Next year let's see what hand how he has or hasn't improved and go from there.
I doubt he will catch Dermott at this point but if he take 4 years I'm ok with that. It's just too early to be fully down on him.

I'm not down on the kid but I am realistic
If Nielsen becomes a 3rd pairing PP QB that can play passable defense I'd be stoked
But I'm not blind to his problems

I watched the 4th goal against yesterday and my God he's got some work to do

 

[saltming]

These guys know their weaknesses and work on them. https://www.thestar.com/sports/brea...ndrew-nielsen-making-strides-towards-nhl.html

Nobody is saying he's not working on becoming better, we are just saying dermott is better right now. All the things nielsen has to work on, Dermott already does. Whats left for dermott is to see if he can take the next step to the nhl level.
I think every leafs fan is cheering and hoping that nielsen pans out.

 

[saltming]

I'm not down on the kid but I am realistic
If Nielsen becomes a 3rd pairing PP QB that can play passable defense I'd be stoked
But I'm not blind to his problems

I watched the 4th goal against yesterday and my God he's got some work to do

Realistically I agree, but I'm still in the hopeful category, though I was like that with biggs for 3 yers! me
And ya that 4th goal against last game exposed all his weaknesses in one play.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Haha come on now, using one goal as a gauge in this conversation is not fair. Dermott doesn't have vision and offensive game of Nielsen at present. They are at different development stages in areas of their game. Its not all Dermott plusses and better player at all now.

Nhl'ers get schooled and look completely out of it all the time too. Haha, http://www.tsn.ca/leafs-unlikely-to-find-blueline-help-from-within-1.622592

Keefe see's them quite equally from the quotes he makes in this article. Says he views both being ready in years not months soooo. I guess he would know best. Didn't give the edge to either player in fairness to the conversation.

So anyways folks there is opinions in favour and against my position. He's a gym rat and very motivated and thats where he convinces me he will succeed.

 

[Mattavarner]

Trade JVR + Leipsic/Sosh to Vegas for whatever D they take from Minnesota (lets say Dumba)
Trade Bozak to STL for Gunnarsson and a pick

Brown - Matthews - Marner
Leivo - Nylander - Kapanen
Hyman - Kadri - Komarov
Martin - Boyle/Freddy - Sosh/Leipsic

Rielly - Dumba
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Gunnarsson - Carrick

Andersen
McBackup

 

[saltming]

Haha come on now, using one goal as a gauge in this conversation is not fair. Dermott doesn't have vision and offensive game of Nielsen at present. They are at different development stages in areas of their game. Its not all Dermott plusses and better player at all now.

Nhl'ers get schooled and look completely out of it all the time too. Haha, http://www.tsn.ca/leafs-unlikely-to-find-blueline-help-from-within-1.622592

Keefe see's them quite equally from the quotes he makes in this article. Says he views both being ready in years not months soooo. I guess he would know best. Didn't give the edge to either player in fairness to the conversation.

Nielsen .57 goals per game
Dermott .49
Also the pp clicks much better with dermott as the qb. He moves the puck smartly and quickly, probably the reason keefe has started using him on the 1st pp.
If anything dermotts offense is underrated.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Nielsen .57 goals per game
Dermott .49
Also the pp clicks much better with dermott as the qb. He moves the puck smartly and quickly, probably the reason keefe has started using him on the 1st pp.
If anything dermotts offense is underrated.

Nielsen has been fucusing on his defensive positioning for weeks now. Its been taking away from his offensive game. He is worki g on not getting caught defensively.

 

[saltming]

Nielsen has been fucusing on his defensive positioning for weeks now. Its been taking away from his offensive game. He is worki g on not getting caught defensively.

Yes but as you pointed out he was the 1st pp qb for most of the season and still gets lots of pp time, that's when he has his time to focus on his offense.

I really hope you don't think I think lowly of nielsen, because I don't. Very excited when we drafted him and I'mvery hopeful that he reaches his ceiling or at the least makes it to the nhl as a bottom pair pp specialist. The kid has serious potential

 

[BertCorbeau]

Nielsen has been fucusing on his defensive positioning for weeks now. Its been taking away from his offensive game. He is worki g on not getting caught defensively.

The key point is Nielsen is still raw defensively and working on that aspect of the game. Add in that he'll need to improve his skating, it's just means he needs more polishing at the AHL level. Whereas Dermott has a lot of the tools already needed (skating, IQ, positioning) to make the jump.

Doesn't mean one is necessarily miles beyond better than the other. One is just better prepped for the NHL than the other.

 

[stickty111]

Neilsen's problems arent really getting caught offensively. Its more of bad pinches which makes his team get put in a tough spot. Than of course he gets walked on the outside so easily. He makes pretty blatant turnovers and the goalie has to bail him out. Keefe dropped him to the 3rd pairing and those are the reasons why. I think Keefe even benched him in a game just last week.
Dermott is easily better in many categories. Skating, IQ, reads, defence, managing the puck. His shot isnt as good but its actually not bad. There is a reason Keefe relys on him as one of his main 4 guys on defence. He plays top pairing/2nd pairing on the team. Keefe roles those pairings evenly. Dermott doesnt make many mistakes and when he does, its either lack of experience or its a rare brain camp.

Dermott is better than Neilsen right now and its not close at the moment really. I like Neilsen and feel he has top pairing potential but just am being realistic here. That size and shot combo can be pretty awesome in the future. If there are two coaches that can help him, its Keefe and Babcock.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Yes but as you pointed out he was the 1st pp qb for most of the season and still gets lots of pp time, that's when he has his time to focus on his offense.

I really hope you don't think I think lowly of nielsen, because I don't. Very excited when we drafted him and I'mvery hopeful that he reaches his ceiling or at the least makes it to the nhl as a bottom pair pp specialist. The kid has serious potential

Well you would think so but he has 6 points in his last 21 games.

 

[saltming]

Well you would think so but he has 6 points in his last 21 games.

A part of that is as you said he's focusing on his defensive game. He has made some bad reads and plays on the pp and he's probably over thinking things now, which is fine and just part of development.
Also Dermott getting a lot of 1st pp minutes also probably contribute to it.

 

[one77]

Brown - Matthews - Marner
JVR - Nylander - Kapanen
Hyman - Kadri - Komarov
Martin - Boyle - Soshnikov
-Leipsic/Leivo/Rychel

Rielly - X
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Carrick
-Nielsen

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

I like both players but I hope Komarov and Bozak are gone next year... the average age of our top 9 forwards would be like 22 Conventional wisdom would suggest it's prudent to have more veterans mixed in, but our young players have proved this year that they don't need the vets around to drag them down

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
JVR-Kadri-Brown
Leivo-Nylander-Kapanen
Martin-Boyle-Soshnikov
Leipsic

Rielly-x
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Hunwick-Carrick

Unlce Leo's not going anywhere