LD Miro Heiskanen - IFK Helsinki, Liiga (2017, 3rd, DAL)

[Magic Mittens]

First off both those goals were nice. Doesn't seem like he missed any time. Still thought he was mostly known for his defensive game, but he looks like he's going go great and both ends

Not to derail this thread, but when talking about Dallas's future D core Johns should be included. He's starting to find his game now and is playing pretty good.

I also think Honka will be moved at some point

 

[Kcb12345]

First off both those goals were nice. Doesn't seem like he missed any time. Still thought he was mostly known for his defensive game, but he looks like he's going go great and both ends

Not to derail this thread, but when talking about Dallas's future D core Johns should be included. He's starting to find his game now and is playing pretty good.

I also think Honka will be moved at some point

When drafted, the only thing he needed to work on was his offensive ability. His defensive game was already NHL ready. Crazy for an 18 year old...and it looks like his offense has really skyrocketed this year too. Should be an elite 2-way #1/2 dman or at the very least top 4.

 

[Loffer]

Heiskanen, atta boy. The guy is back (as expected) and healthy and frisky as a spring squirrel scoring nonchalantly two beauties. My favorite Finnish prospect, after Juolevi of course.

 

[Ippenator]

I feel that you are too kind for Lindell here.

And you are seriously undervaluing Lindell. He has been very good this season, and he showed already last season some glimpses of it. He is nowadays also a quite good physical presence whom can skate pretty well for his size and has pretty ok hands even. Quite a perfect match with Klingberg.

What would Heiskanen and Klingberg really do against big and fast opponents that can cycle the puck well? I can tell you, they would be in trouble in their own end. Balance and the right roles is what is needed for creating good lines and the same applies to defensive pairings too.

Either Klingberg or Heiskanen with Lindell and the other one with Methot, could really work nicely, at least if Methot can still recover himself to the same level that he was at best in Ottawa. He was a very well working pair for Karlsson there. A big, strong and reliable stay at home defenceman, who’s play allowed Karlsson to do his excellent offensive hockey without being too often scored against. Now that Karlsson is not playing anymore with Methot he is in trouble with his ultra offensive style. And now Ottawa does not have anyone else that is in the same class of Methot as a clear stay at home defenceman.

Miro can sure defend, but I can still see him having quite some problems with the big and fast forwards whom can protect the puck very well. He will most probably need a Lindell or a Methot to help him with those kind of players. And also having a stay at home defenceman with him, will help him use more of his excellent offensive skills. And the same applies with Klingberg.

Sure, put Klingberg and Heiskanen on the power play at the same time on the blueline, it could be really something. But on 5 on 5 they would be together a too big risk in their own end, especially because of the lack of strength and reach.

 

[badboy1994]

And you are seriously undervaluing Lindell. He has been very good this season, and he shows already last season some glimpses of it. He is nowadays also a quite good physical presence whom can skate pretty well for his size and has pretty ok hands even. Quite a perfect match with Klingberg.

What would Heiskanen and Klingberg really do against big and fast opponents that can cycle the puck well? I can tell you, they would be in trouble in their own end.

Balance and the right roles is what is needed for resting good lines and the same applies with defensive pairings too.

Either Klingberg or Heiskanen with Lindell and the other one with Methot, could really work nicely, at least if Methot can still recover himself to the same level that he was at best in Ottawa. He was a very well working pair for Karlsson there. A good and reliable stay at home defenceman, who’s play allowed Karlsson to do his excellent offensive hockey without being too often scored against. Now that Karlsson is not playing anymore with Methot he is in trouble with his ultra offensive style. And Ottawa does not anyone else that is in the same class of Methot as a clear stay at home defenceman.

Miro can sure defend, but I can still see him having quite some problems with the big and fast forwards whom can protect the puck very well. He will most probably need a Lindell or a Methot to help him with those kind of players. And also having a stay at home defenceman with him, will help him use more of his excellent offensive skills. And the same applies with Klingberg.

Sure, put Klingberg and Heiskanen on the power play at the same time on the blueline, it could be really something. But on 5 on 5 they would be together a too big risk in their own end, especially because of the lack of strength and reach.

Lindel reminds me of a young McDonagh

 

[BB88]

And you are seriously undervaluing Lindell. He has been very good this season, and he shows already last season some glimpses of it. He is nowadays also a quite good physical presence whom can skate pretty well for his size and has pretty ok hands even. Quite a perfect match with Klingberg.

What would Heiskanen and Klingberg really do against big and fast opponents that can cycle the puck well? I can tell you, they would be in trouble in their own end.

Balance and the right roles is what is needed for resting good lines and the same applies with defensive pairings too.

Either Klingberg or Heiskanen with Lindell and the other one with Methot, could really work nicely, at least if Methot can still recover himself to the same level that he was at best in Ottawa. He was a very well working pair for Karlsson there. A good and reliable stay at home defenceman, who’s play allowed Karlsson to do his excellent offensive hockey without being too often scored against. Now that Karlsson is not playing anymore with Methot he is in trouble with his ultra offensive style. And Ottawa does not anyone else that is in the same class of Methot as a clear stay at home defenceman.

Miro can sure defend, but I can still see him having quite some problems with the big and fast forwards whom can protect the puck very well. He will most probably need a Lindell or a Methot to help him with those kind of players. And also having a stay at home defenceman with him, will help him use more of his excellent offensive skills. And the same applies with Klingberg.

Sure, put Klingberg and Heiskanen on the power play at the same time on the blueline, it could be really something. But on 5 on 5 they would be together a too big risk in their own end, especially because of the lack of strength and reach.

So you're saying Lindell is one of the best defensive D-men in the league?

I'm not sold today with Kling against the 1st lines in the playoffs, and I'm not sold that with Lindell they can shutdown 1st lines well. They could prove it this year, but today I'm not a believer they could carry the team to finals.

I'm not certainly sold today that Honka could go against the 1st lines in the playoffs, and to me Heiskanen has the potential to become an elite 2way #1D in this league who should play the heavy minutes. If Lindell- Kling pairing doesn't work in the playoffs where else to put Heiskanen?

 

[badboy1994]

So you're saying Lindell is one of the best defensive D-men in the league?

I'm not sold today with Kling against the 1st lines in the playoffs, and I'm not sold that with Lindell they can shutdown 1st lines well. They could prove it this year, but today I'm not a believer they could carry the team to finals.

I'm not certainly sold today that Honka could go against the 1st lines in the playoffs, and to me Heiskanen has the potential to become an elite 2way #1D in this league who should play the heavy minutes. If Lindell- Kling pairing doesn't work in the playoffs where else to put Heiskanen?

I guess we just have a different opinion, I truly believe that lindel is one of the best defensive Dmen in the nhl + he can actually move the puck also. I actually think that heiskanen and jhons could work out nicely togeher maybe

 

[WhatWhat]

So you're saying Lindell is one of the best defensive D-men in the league?

I'm not sold today with Kling against the 1st lines in the playoffs, and I'm not sold that with Lindell they can shutdown 1st lines well. They could prove it this year, but today I'm not a believer they could carry the team to finals.

I'm not certainly sold today that Honka could go against the 1st lines in the playoffs, and to me Heiskanen has the potential to become an elite 2way #1D in this league who should play the heavy minutes. If Lindell- Kling pairing doesn't work in the playoffs where else to put Heiskanen?

why is this your line of thought when they have been one of the best pairs in the league this year? You dont break up a pair that is that good together

If you are worried about him being with Honka then just give Heiskanen Johns as a partner to start leaving Methot-Honka as the 3rd pair

 

[BB88]

why is this your line of thought when they have been one of the best pairs in the league this year? You dont break up a pair that is that good together

Why did you miss the IF?

I guess we just have a different opinion, I truly believe that lindel is one of the best defensive Dmen in the nhl + he can actually move the puck also. I actually think that heiskanen and jhons could work out nicely togeher maybe

I wouldn't have him anywhere near the top.

 

[badboy1994]

Why did you miss the IF?



I wouldn't have him anywhere near the top.

You must not watch him allot then, because he never makes a mistake, always gets the puck out, uses his body and always makes a beautiful first pass. Lindel is a liget #2

 

[Ippenator]

You must not watch him allot then, because he never makes a mistake, always gets the puck out, uses his body and always makes a beautiful first pass. Lindel is a liget #2

I think he is seriously stuck with how Lindell was the last times in the Finnish national team. Just forget that! Not at all the same player anymore. He has gone miles forward from that, and is a very good NHL defenceman nowadays already.

 

[Ippenator]

I feel that you are too kind for Lindell here.

He said by the way: ”one of the BETTER defensive defencemen in the league”. It would have been how you are interpreting it now, if he would have said: ”he is one of the BEST defensive defencemen in the league”. There is a slight difference with these two ways of describing him as a defensive defenceman.

 

[WhatWhat]

Why did you miss the IF?



I wouldn't have him anywhere near the top.

No I didnt miss the if. My question is why is that even a line of thinking? They are playing the best hockey of their life. Why would they suddenly be bad in the playoffs? Sure they might slump at the wrong time or we might find out that Kling has playoff jitters if he has a horrible run but a bad playoff from that pair does not make you go "well we better split them up because they sucked over these past 5 games despite them being of of the best pairs in the NHL over the last 70 games before that."

If Lindell didnt look like he could handle top minutes I would be all for projecting Heiskanen as Klings partner down then line, except right now Lindell looks like a legit #2 dman and he plays best with Kling and Kling plays best with him. There is literally no need to break up a pair that is proving it can handle 22 a night. Let Heiskanen build chemistry with someone else like johns or Honka. Let them feast on second units. If Heiskanen reaches his potential then we legit end up with 2 top pairs on D. That is the best problem ever

 

[BB88]

No I didnt miss the if. My question is why is that even a line of thinking? They are playing the best hockey of their life. Why would they suddenly be bad in the playoffs? Sure they might slump at the wrong time or we might find out that Kling has playoff jitters if he has a horrible run but a bad playoff from that pair does not make you go "well we better split them up because they sucked over these past 5 games despite them being of of the best pairs in the NHL over the last 70 games before that."

If Lindell didnt look like he could handle top minutes I would be all for projecting Heiskanen as Klings partner down then line, except right now Lindell looks like a legit #2 dman and he plays best with Kling and Kling plays best with him. There is literally no need to break up a pair that is proving it can handle 22 a night. Let Heiskanen build chemistry with someone else like johns or Honka. Let them feast on second units. If Heiskanen reaches his potential then we legit end up with 2 top pairs on D. That is the best problem ever

Because it's a regular season and still a short sample size.

The last few years have left huge question marks around the defense and how they can handle the playoffs. If they can handle the playoffs this year then they can split the 2 (Heiskanen/Kling).

Heiskanen has another point today and got close to 2nd.

 

[WhatWhat]

Because it's a regular season and still a short sample size.

The last few years have left huge question marks around the defense and how they can handle the playoffs. If they can handle the playoffs this year then they can split the 2 (Heiskanen/Kling).

Heiskanen has another point today and got close to 2nd.

Dude your argument for why Miro should play with Klingberg is "Lindell and Klingberg might not look good in the playoffs." You then say the regular season is a small sample size. You do realize that even if Dallas wins the cup going to 7 games that small sample size is still bigger than the sample you want to give 100% weight to right?

Miro could come over looking like Lidström and I still wouldnt pair him with Klinberg given the way our top pair is playing. Hell the more like Lidström he looks like the less I want him with Kling because at that level he could easily carry a Johns like player to a top 15-20 D pair in the league. If that happens then we end up with 2 top 15-20 pairs. Im not knocking Heiskanen in any way, but I really dont care how damn good he is/gets to be. You don't break up a pair as dominate as Lindell Klingberg just because a prospect has insane potential

 

[BB88]

Dude your argument for why Miro should play with Klingberg is "Lindell and Klingberg might not look good in the playoffs." You then say the regular season is a small sample size. You do realize that even if Dallas wins the cup going to 7 games that small sample size is still bigger than the sample you want to give 100% weight to right?

Miro could come over looking like Lidström and I still wouldnt pair him with Klinberg given the way our top pair is playing. Hell the more like Lidström he looks like the less I want him with Kling because at that level he could easily carry a Johns like player to a top 15-20 D pair in the league. If that happens then we end up with 2 top 15-20 pairs. Im not knocking Heiskanen in any way, but I really dont care how damn good he is/gets to be. You don't break up a pair as dominate as Lindell Klingberg just because a prospect has insane potential

It is a small sample size when we've seen years of bad defending, 1st half of the season won't whipe out all those years.

Just like regular season is a different beast than a pre season playoffs are a different beast than a regular season.
Last time they were an elite regular season team it didn't go that well. Dallas is a team that has to answer to those defensive concerns, this year we'll get answers.

I've learned to not have too much value on pre season scoring, I've also learned not to put too much value on some things during the regular season.

 

[Hokinaittii]

One assist tonight. His team played back to back games against Tappara and Heiskanen played 53 minutes in those games.

 

[WhatWhat]

It is a small sample size when we've seen years of bad defending, 1st half of the season won't whipe out all those years.

Just like regular season is a different beast than a pre season playoffs are a different beast than a regular season.
Last time they were an elite regular season team it didn't go that well. Dallas is a team that has to answer to those defensive concerns, this year we'll get answers.

I've learned to not have too much value on pre season scoring, I've also learned not to put too much value on some things during the regular season.

The last time they were elite in the regular season the D was completely different. Only same thing is Klingberg and 14 games of Johns. So now you are saying that you are worried Lindell-Klingberg might not play well in the playoffs because last time Dallas was in the playoffs they didnt make conference finals. You do realize Lindell wasnt on that team right?

"It is a small sample size when we've seen years of bad defending, 1st half of the season won't whipe out all those years"

Lindell wasnt here for those years....... He is here now and playing like a legit #2. Why on earth are you setting up with low expectations of Lindell-kling in the playoffs based off of the play of Gologoski, Demers, Oleksiak, Benn and Nemeth from 2 years ago? How does that make any sense?? One bad playoff, a complete hypothetical at this point, for Lindell and Kling doesnt whipe out their display of dominance this year


So to sum this up you think Heiskanen should play with Klingberg because Lindell and Klingberg might struggle in this years playoffs. Your reasoning for why they might struggle is that past Dallas teams D have struggled in the playoffs despite Lindell not being on any of those teams and our system being drastically different now compared to then. Finally you think 70 ish games of Lindell and Klingberg is a small sample size but a maximum of 28 playoff games is plenty to break them up (worth noting if they play the max games that means they played really freaking well because that means we lost in the final game 7)

 

[BB88]

The last time they were elite in the regular season the D was completely different. Only same thing is Klingberg and 14 games of Johns. So now you are saying that you are worried Lindell-Klingberg might not play well in the playoffs because last time Dallas was in the playoffs they didnt make conference finals. You do realize Lindell wasnt on that team right?

"It is a small sample size when we've seen years of bad defending, 1st half of the season won't whipe out all those years"

Lindell wasnt here for those years....... He is here now and playing like a legit #2. Why on earth are you setting up with low expectations of Lindell-kling in the playoffs based off of the play of Gologoski, Demers, Oleksiak, Benn and Nemeth from 2 years ago? How does that make any sense?? One bad playoff, a complete hypothetical at this point, for Lindell and Kling doesnt whipe out their display of dominance this year


So to sum this up you think Heiskanen should play with Klingberg because Lindell and Klingberg might struggle in this years playoffs. Your reasoning for why they might struggle is that past Dallas teams D have struggled in the playoffs despite Lindell not being on any of those teams and our system being drastically different now compared to then. Finally you think 70 ish games of Lindell and Klingberg is a small sample size but a maximum of 28 playoff games is plenty to break them up (worth noting if they play the max games that means they played really freaking well because that means we lost in the final game 7)

I'm saying today I consider Heiskanen to have a much higher ceiling than Lindell, defense being his strenght. In the past Dallas has not been able to prove to be good enough defensively& Lindell hasn't been able to prove himself as a clear #2D who can provide an answer to those defensive concerns.

I'll say it again, they can give those answers this season but today they haven't and Heiskanen is a guy I'd want to face the opponents best lines because I believe he can become an elite 2way #1D. A possession monster.

Every team has question marks around their team, defense and #1LD is mine for Dallas and those won't be answered on 1 half of a regular season.

 

[badboy1994]

I'm saying today I consider Heiskanen to have a much higher ceiling than Lindell, defense being his strenght. In the past Dallas has not been able to prove to be good enough defensively& Lindell hasn't been able to prove himself as a clear #2D who can provide an answer to those defensive concerns.

I'll say it again, they can give those answers this season but today they haven't and Heiskanen is a guy I'd want to face the opponents best lines because I believe he can become an elite 2way #1D. A possession monster.

Every team has question marks around their team, defense and #1LD is mine for Dallas and those won't be answered on 1 half of a regular season.

But lindel has proven himself, he litterly never makes mistakes and makes all of the right plays. I have zero concerns with lindel

 

[badboy1994]

I'm saying today I consider Heiskanen to have a much higher ceiling than Lindell, defense being his strenght. In the past Dallas has not been able to prove to be good enough defensively& Lindell hasn't been able to prove himself as a clear #2D who can provide an answer to those defensive concerns.

I'll say it again, they can give those answers this season but today they haven't and Heiskanen is a guy I'd want to face the opponents best lines because I believe he can become an elite 2way #1D. A possession monster.

Every team has question marks around their team, defense and #1LD is mine for Dallas and those won't be answered on 1 half of a regular season.

It’s not like Heneskin is chris pronger and Klingberg is Scott Niedermayer.

Then lindel is Whitney and honka is beauchmin

The playing styles worked for the ducks to put the top 2 on the same line.

But Heneskin would not work good with Klingberg period

Klingberg and lindel will play together until they retire and Heneskin will run the second unit and the stars will have the best defense core for the next 10 years

 

[WhatWhat]

I'm saying today I consider Heiskanen to have a much higher ceiling than Lindell, defense being his strenght. In the past Dallas has not been able to prove to be good enough defensively& Lindell hasn't been able to prove himself as a clear #2D who can provide an answer to those defensive concerns.

I'll say it again, they can give those answers this season but today they haven't and Heiskanen is a guy I'd want to face the opponents best lines because I believe he can become an elite 2way #1D. A possession monster.

Every team has question marks around their team, defense and #1LD is mine for Dallas and those won't be answered on 1 half of a regular season.

There is no denying Heiskanen has a higher ceiling. No one is arguing that, and anyone who thinks that should get their head checked. However Heiskanen having a higher ceiling is not a reasonable reason to split Lindell and Klingberg. Heiskanen can still play the top competition and not be with Klingberg. Hell right now we run 2 20 minute pairs. Kling gets to feast on slightly more favorable matchups while Hamhuis and Pateryn take the shut down minutes. My issue with Hamhuis and Pateryn is that they are dreadful at generating offense. They can shutdown the shit out of any line but that is the extent of the usefulness during their 20 minutes.

Having Heiskanen on a pair without Klingberg and with a Johns could 100% be that tough assignment pair like Hamhuis-Pateryn but would offer very good offense and transition on top of D. Like a shutdown pair that can also push the puck and score. That being a thing would leave Lindell-Klingberg in the same deployment as they have now. Assuming Heiskanen hits anywhere close to his ceiling that leaves one of Heiskanen or Klingberg just destroying 2nd units every single game. That is a recipe for success


This proposed situation isnt some slight of Heiskanen. Its more of a Malkin in Pittsburgh situation. Malkin is without a doubt a 1C and you could easily argue him to be top 5-10. However he plays 2C. Heiskanen being on a "2nd pair" is just a label. If he is still playing 22 a night I dont give a shit if his pair is labeled the 3rd pair he is still a 1D

 

[FinPanda]

I don't understand this at all. If Heiskanen is on your second pair, that is incredible. Lindell has proved he can play on the 1st pair well with Klingberg. Just because Heiskanen is a better prospect doesn't mean he has to play in the 1st pair when they have another pair who has proved they play well together.

It doesn't make Heiskanen any worse prospect/player than he is.

 

[Hokinaittii]

One reason why I wouldn't like Klingberg-Heiskanen pair is due to Klingberg being very much offensive focused player and it could kill some of Heiskanen's offence since it would force him to be the guy who covers up everytime Klingberg goes for a rush. Like Klingberg, Heiskanen also likes to take part in offence/rushes so it could become hard to make sure they both are not taking risks at the same time.

Let Heiskanen be the offensive guy in his pair and you should get most out of him.

 

[badboy1994]

I think that it’s clear what mostly everyone thinks. Lindel and Klingberg will be staying together for the next 10 years