Proposal: LaK/TBL

[CodeE]

Easier to get a low-end 1c than a low-end 1d/high-end 2d? I would say it is about even but whatevs.

Johnson scored 45 points this year, Leddy scored 46.

We'll keep our taller, younger, #1 defenseman signed long-term.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Johnson scored 45 points this year, Leddy scored 46.

We'll keep our taller, younger, #1 defenseman signed long-term.

Why does this matter?

Also the age difference is less than a year.

Also Leddy is more of a 1/2D.

Also you can sign Johnson long term right now.

 

[Beautvillier]

Why does this matter?

Also the age difference is less than a year.

Also Leddy is more of a 1/2D.

Also you can sign Johnson long term right now.

leddy is our 1D, so we value him as our 1D. elite PMD fetch a lot of value, johnson is not it.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

leddy is our 1D, so we value him as our 1D. elite PMD fetch a lot of value, johnson is not it.

You know who else has a lot of value? PPG playoff scorers.

 

[PK Cronin]

You know who else has a lot of value? PPG playoff scorers.

Not always.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Not always.

wdym

 

[Beautvillier]

wdym

leddy has more value to the isles than johnson would have to us. ainec.

 

[PK Cronin]

wdym

There are plenty of guys who have had good playoff numbers but revert back to their old self for the next season. Fedotenko, Brouwer, Williams, etc., all have had good playoff numbers at some point and then revert back to what they are for the regular season. I don't think their value is so much greater because they had good playoff numbers.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

There are plenty of guys who have had good playoff numbers but revert back to their old self for the next season. Fedotenko, Brouwer, Williams, etc., all have had good playoff numbers at some point and then revert back to what they are for the regular season. I don't think their value is so much greater because they had good playoff numbers.

You are clearly not a GM.

Also he had a 70 point season just a couple years ago.

 

[PK Cronin]

You are clearly not a GM.

Also he had a 70 point season just a couple years ago.

I don't even know what you're talking about here. You said players who are ppg in the playoffs are more valuable, I said they weren't necessarily...confused as to why you're bringing up 70 point seasons.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I don't even know what you're talking about here. You said players who are ppg in the playoffs are more valuable, I said they weren't necessarily...confused as to why you're bringing up 70 point seasons.

You clearly are not a GM. This guy definitely is.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I don't even know what you're talking about here. You said players who are ppg in the playoffs are more valuable, I said they weren't necessarily...confused as to why you're bringing up 70 point seasons.

Your examples were guys who are good in the playoffs and not in the season. Johnson is good in both, but steps up his game when it matters most.

You clearly are not a GM. This guy definitely is.

I never said I was, but GM's value clutch players.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Your examples were guys who are good in the playoffs and not in the season. Johnson is good in both, but steps up his game when it matters most.

I never said I was, but GM's value clutch players.

What is clutch exactly though? Does one great playoff performance mean a player is clutch? I mean that performance was quite a long time ago in the sports world. I am all for Johnson, but to give up prime assets for him just because he is "clutch" is quite a reach.

He is a damn good player though, you have probably watched more of him then I have.. How do you compare him to RNH and Duchene?

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I never said I was,

Neither did the other guy.

 

[PK Cronin]

Your examples were guys who are good in the playoffs and not in the season. Johnson is good in both, but steps up his game when it matters most.

And? You claimed playoff performers have more value, I provided examples that prove otherwise. Nowhere did I mention regular season stats.

I never said I was, but GM's value clutch players.

Prove it. By your definition of "clutch" you're just referring to good players because they're also good during the regular season.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

What is clutch exactly though? Does one great playoff performance mean a player is clutch? I mean that performance was quite a long time ago in the sports world. I am all for Johnson, but to give up prime assets for him just because he is "clutch" is quite a reach.

He is a damn good player though, you have probably watched more of him then I have.. How do you compare him to RNH and Duchene?

2 good playoff runs actually.

IMO, he is significantly better than RNH but significantly worse than Duchene. But I am probably the biggest Duchene fan here and think he is better than Kopitar, so there's that.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

And? You claimed playoff performers have more value, I provided examples that prove otherwise. Nowhere did I mention regular season stats.



Prove it. By your definition of "clutch" you're just referring to good players because they're also good during the regular season.

1. Your examples are players who have value. Due to their playoff performances.
2. By 'clutch' I meant players who are good in the season but take it to another level in the playoffs. Johnson is a prime example.

 

[leeroggy]

Muzzin I'd say isn't really a need. Would consider it if we lost dehaan but not hickey.

Would love love love toffoli slotted next to JT and would give up anyone not named JT, leddy, barzal and pulock.

Johnson could be had for Hammer straight up

#1 agree. Muzzin right now is a luxury, not a necessity for us, unless the trade expands into Muzzin and Toffoli and what they could cost together

#2 Disagree. Would give up Pulock in that trade in a heartbeat. Anyone who watched Toffoli enough knows what a stud he truly is. As #1 RW with JT and Lee he allows Ho-Sang to not see the best defenders. That's got to have a heck of a long-term benefit too. Toffoli still is only 25 years old too.

#3 Not Sure. Isn't Johnson pretty much what we want Barzal to become? If we are trading Hamonic it should be to upgrade elsewhere or part of the package for #1 above.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I mean Johnson is a decent insurance policy for if Tavares walks.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

If Drouin is truly on the table and TBL needs defense coming in return, I'm certain a deal can be made and I'd prolly like it more than any deal that could be made for Duchene.

In fact, if the deal can be made BEFORE the expansion draft, I'd suggest giving them their choice of Hamonic or de Haan as well as Hickey.

A sweetener could be included and I'm thinking the rights to Sundstrom could make it possible.

 

[Lame Lambert]

If Drouin is truly on the table and TBL needs defense coming in return, I'm certain a deal can be made and I'd prolly like it more than any deal that could be made for Duchene.

In fact, if the deal can be made BEFORE the expansion draft, I'd suggest giving them their choice of Hamonic or de Haan as well as Hickey.

A sweetener could be included and I'm thinking the rights to Sundstrom could make it possible.

If Drouin is on the table would it make more sense to offer sheet?

 

[PK Cronin]

1. Your examples are players who have value. Due to their playoff performances.
2. By 'clutch' I meant players who are good in the season but take it to another level in the playoffs. Johnson is a prime example.

I don't think any of the players I listed had added value because of their playoff performances.

Justin Williams makes $3.25 million and is a consistent 50 point player, and is one of the most clutch players in the NHL. Josh Bailey, who just hit 50 points for the first time this season, makes $3.3 million and signed that contract years ago.

Again, playoff performance does not always mean a player has more value. If it did, Williams wouldn't be making as little as he does.

Want to talk about Tyler Johnson? He's a 50+ point regular season player and is close to a PPG pace for the playoffs. You're exaggerating the value he should get because he's been a good playoff performer. To say an elite PMD is the price for a 50+ point regular season player is crazy. You can hype up that 70 point season as much as you'd like, but it was three seasons ago and he hasn't passed 45 since. For more than half of his time in the NHL he hasn't broken 50 points, and he's only broken it 1 time. Players like that aren't worth elite PMD defensemen, sorry.

Now, I have no doubt that Johnson will be a good player for years to come, but I don't think the 70 point season is something he'll be getting with any consistency.

The crux of my initial statement was that playoff performance doesn't always impact value much. I'll stand by that statement and say you're over valuing Johnson because he's been good in the playoffs.

 

[CodeE]

If Drouin is truly on the table and TBL needs defense coming in return, I'm certain a deal can be made and I'd prolly like it more than any deal that could be made for Duchene.

In fact, if the deal can be made BEFORE the expansion draft, I'd suggest giving them their choice of Hamonic or de Haan as well as Hickey.

A sweetener could be included and I'm thinking the rights to Sundstrom could make it possible.

Agreed, though our sweetener might need to be a bit more aggressive. 53 points as a 22 year old, 2nd most points on the Lightning behind Kucherov. Still, I'd go after Drouin a lot harder than Duchene or TJ.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

If Drouin is truly on the table and TBL needs defense coming in return, I'm certain a deal can be made and I'd prolly like it more than any deal that could be made for Duchene.

In fact, if the deal can be made BEFORE the expansion draft, I'd suggest giving them their choice of Hamonic or de Haan as well as Hickey.

A sweetener could be included and I'm thinking the rights to Sundstrom could make it possible.

If Drouin is on the table would it make more sense to offer sheet?

Drouin isn't on the table.

Also acquiring a D before the ED makes no sense, our spots are filled by Hedman, Stralman and Dotchin.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Agreed, though our sweetener might need to be a bit more aggressive. 53 points as a 22 year old, 2nd most points on the Lightning behind Kucherov. Still, I'd go after Drouin a lot harder than Duchene or TJ.

Actually 3rd on the team behind Kuch and Hedman but I get your point. To be honest I would ask for Barzal+Pulock+Beau which the Isles would rightfully decline and the discussion would end there.