Player Discussion Kris Knoblauch: Don’t Judge a Knob By Its Polish

Drivesaitl

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Oct 8, 2017
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Let’s give Coffey some praise as well. Now even Desharnais looks like a legit NHL defenseman
Because the simplest, shortest messages are the most effective messages.

Coaching or teaching is not about saying 100 things. Its about saying the few effective things.

Coffey came in here and one of his initial statements to the D group was: "Go out there and make plays. Anybody that feels they cannot do that please raise your hand and we'll find others that can"

That was it. What a mindblowing message. Severe, yes, but it cut to the chase and told players that you're expected to bring your skillsets to the table. Stop with the doubts, start making plays.


One of the most important messages from Knoblauch in the presser in OP is that if you try to talk about everything you end up talking about NOTHING. That you have to find the right messages, you have to narrow it down. Because people will tune you out if you don't do that. Bang.

Woody would pride himself on 10mins behind the microphone saying nothing. I wonder if he was just like that in the room. Saying tons of stuff with players eyes rolling around in their heads. I have seen him do that in practice. Multiple times during Woody practices there would be extended talks instead of actually skating, practicing.
 

ChaoticOrange

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Jun 29, 2008
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Remember his first press conference when everyone was basically ready to throw in the towel on the season (and for some, the entire McDrai era)?

Well, his pressers are still like that, but guess what? Guy is a damn good coach.
I think a big part of the reason the first presser seemed so awkward is they combined the woodcroft firing and Knoblauch hiring pressers into one. Made for some very weird energy and wasn't as celebratory of a guy finally getting his NHL chance as it should have been.
 
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94 Oil Drops

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I thought this was going to be a nothing hire. Boy do I feel stupid now lol. I can't believe what Kris and Paul have been able to get out of this roster. The results have been outstanding. I listened to Strudwick's podcast yesterday.

Brown was talking about how nothing seems to phase Kris even when really bad things happen on the ice. I never really thought about this before but in a lot of ways, having a coach that calm and level headed is dangerous for the opposing team.

It means that Kris is not going to make silly line combos and focus on finding a solution to fix a problem instead of making the problem worse. Woody and Tippett were awful at that kind of thing, blending the lines to a pulp or just using McDrai as the nuclear option when a game was going bad. Kris just doesn't do that.
 

jukon

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Mar 17, 2011
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I would appreciate it if some of the smarter hockey fans please explain to this dummy what the biggest changes have been under Knob/Coff?
 
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guymez

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K1984

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I think a big part of the reason the first presser seemed so awkward is they combined the woodcroft firing and Knoblauch hiring pressers into one. Made for some very weird energy and wasn't as celebratory of a guy finally getting his NHL chance as it should have been.

Never thought of it that way, but very good point. Sounds like something that should be PR 101 in theory that got botched. Not fair to the new hires as the media are trying to hammer the brass sitting next to them.
 

K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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I thought this was going to be a nothing hire. Boy do I feel stupid now lol. I can't believe what Kris and Paul have been able to get out of this roster. The results have been outstanding. I listened to Strudwick's podcast yesterday.

Brown was talking about how nothing seems to phase Kris even when really bad things happen on the ice. I never really thought about this before but in a lot of ways, having a coach that calm and level headed is dangerous for the opposing team.

It means that Kris is not going to make silly line combos and focus on finding a solution to fix a problem instead of making the problem worse. Woody and Tippett were awful at that kind of thing, blending the lines to a pulp or just using McDrai as the nuclear option when a game was going bad. Kris just doesn't do that.

He takes a common sense approach to his lineups and deployments and isn’t afraid to quickly change a matchup or tweak things if something blatantly isn’t working. It’s usually just for a point in time though, then puts people back where they’re comfortable and what works.

Compare that to Woodcroft who reflexively stacked McDavid and Drai at the first sign of trouble then would ride it for weeks. Second line would be getting routinely decimated, but he either didn’t care or would pretend it wasn’t happening.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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Most people, me included, were freaking out over how he sounded uncertain and not confident during that first presser.

Turns out most of us were wrong.

Apparently that’s why he never was hired as he didn’t interview well. JJ made a gutsy call Holland never would have made and it’s paying off in spades. The call to put Coffey in as well has been bloody genius. Mark Stuart has done a great job on the PK and the team plays with a calm demeanour I’ve not seen since the 80’s.
 
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joestevens29

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Apparently that’s why he never was hired as he didn’t interview well. JJ made a gutsy call Holland never would have made and it’s paying off in spades. The call to put Coffey in as well has been bloody genius. Mark Stuart has done a great job on the PK and the team plays with a calm demeanour I’ve not seen since the 80’s.
Nurse was talking about Stewey yesterday and I was like WTF is Skinner giving d-men so much good advice, this guy is a genius.

Then I realized he meant Stuart lol
 
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MessierThanThou

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Reddit is utterly insufferable with all the Woody apologists saying this turnaround was inevitable and the sudden improvement of so many slumping players is just a coincidence...even though the only real change that occurred is the coaching staff.
 

SK13

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The season would have turned for a potato in a drawn-on tuxedo but it's hard to argue with the results.
 

SK13

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Reddit is utterly insufferable with all the Woody apologists saying this turnaround was inevitable and the sudden improvement of so many slumping players is just a coincidence...even though the only real change that occurred is the coaching staff.

Three straight years. Just going to keep saying it. They did it to Tippett, it got him fired, and most of you posted all the stupid flowery shit about Woodcroft and Manson and how amazing they were. They did it to Woodcroft last year, they came out of it and stormed the league. They outplayed the teams they were losing to, sometimes by a lot, and shot 6% and had a .870 save percentage in those first games. The man had an 18-2-1 record last spring going into the playoffs didn't suddenly coach them into that collapse.

In the winter, things go wrong and they squeeze their sticks and they lose everything. Three straight years, two different coaches. They've also gone on insane runs in three straight seasons, with two different coaches.

The coach change was a nice reset point, that's all. Knoblauch may be a better coach for the team overall in the end, and I'm grateful for that because I thought Woodcroft got his ass handed to him against Vegas, but it's still not the core issue. That issue is in the heads of 97, 29, 93, 25, etc.
 
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MessierThanThou

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Three straight years. Just going to keep saying it. They did it to Tippett, it got him fired, and most of you posted all the stupid flowery shit about Woodcroft and Manson and how amazing they were. They did it to Woodcroft last year, they came out of it and stormed the league. They outplayed the teams they were losing to, sometimes by a lot, and shot 6% and had a .870 save percentage in those first games. The man had an 18-2-1 record last spring going into the playoffs didn't suddenly coach them into that collapse.

In the winter, things go wrong and they squeeze their sticks and they lose everything. Three straight years, two different coaches. They've also gone on insane runs in three straight seasons, with two different coaches.

The coach change was a nice reset point, that's all. Knoblauch may be a better coach for the team overall in the end, and I'm grateful for that because I thought Woodcroft got his ass handed to him against Vegas, but it's still not the core issue. That issue is in the heads of 97, 29, 93, 25, etc.
No, the core issue is that Woody was riding off McDavid and Draisaitl playing their best hockey ever during the second half of last year. McDavid and Draisaitl have been far more quiet during this turnaround, especially during the winning streak, and we're seeing bit players produce in ways they never did under Woody-Manson.
 

SK13

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No, the core issue is that Woody was riding off McDavid and Draisaitl playing their best hockey ever during the second half of last year. McDavid and Draisaitl have been far more quiet during this turnaround, especially during the winning streak, and we're seeing bit players produce in ways they never did under Woody-Manson.

Every part of this is provably false.

McDavid played 21:05/game during the 18-2-1 run to end last season, he's playing 21:50 under Knoblauch and that number is going up - not down. McDavid plays more as the team needs him to play more, and that has not changed. Knoblauch has gone to McDavid at 22+ minutes 6 times in the last three weeks, and twice at ~26 minutes.

Also, depth scoring is down, not up. They had more than 60 goals from their bottom six forwards going into the playoffs last year, right now they pace to 40. Their top-six is down, too. If you're going to give Knoblauch credit for McLeod and Foegele, you also have to give him demerits for the PP, RNH and McDavid.

The difference with this year's team is defence. They are top-5 in shot suppression, scoring chances allowed and high-danger chances allowed. But here's the funny thing: They were also at the top of the league in all those same things when they were 2-9-1. The difference is they shot 6% and they had a save percentage of .870. I'm not exaggerating when I say a potato could coach them out of that: They could not have a coach at all and that would have changed. No team will ever shoot 6% or have a save percentage of .870. It was the kind of artificial low that only happens in extreme, small samples.

After all that, the thesis that this is a coaching issue doesn't account for the fact that this has HAPPENED. IN. THREE. STRAIGHT. SEASONS! Why will nobody who disagrees with me acknowledge this point and attempt to explain it?

What was 2-11-2 in December 2021-January 2022? What was back-to-back slumps of 3-7 & 4-8 in November of 2022 and December of 2022? How, if the coach was such a problem did they make the playoffs with home-ice advantage for both Tippett and Woodcroft? How did they pull 91 out of a possible 120 points in the 60 games outside of their 22-23 collapse? It's actually a long running trade mark of the McDavid era: They also had a horrible run in December 2019 that they snapped out of when they called up Kailer Yamamoto, and they were 3-6 to start the North Division season before a bunch of Ottawa games saved the day.

Key reset points. Christmas break, All-Star break, coaching changes. Mental resets. It's the equivalent of turning a computer off and on again. Those bad runs were always artificial and mental. They get the yips. Knoblauch may be an improvement on Woodcroft, I like lots of things he's done. But the coaching change was not the difference between 2-9-1 and 24-6. Knoblauch said that in different words himself last week.
 

guymez

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Three straight years. Just going to keep saying it. They did it to Tippett, it got him fired, and most of you posted all the stupid flowery shit about Woodcroft and Manson and how amazing they were. They did it to Woodcroft last year, they came out of it and stormed the league. They outplayed the teams they were losing to, sometimes by a lot, and shot 6% and had a .870 save percentage in those first games. The man had an 18-2-1 record last spring going into the playoffs didn't suddenly coach them into that collapse.

In the winter, things go wrong and they squeeze their sticks and they lose everything. Three straight years, two different coaches. They've also gone on insane runs in three straight seasons, with two different coaches.

The coach change was a nice reset point, that's all. Knoblauch may be a better coach for the team overall in the end, and I'm grateful for that because I thought Woodcroft got his ass handed to him against Vegas, but it's still not the core issue. That issue is in the heads of 97, 29, 93, 25, etc.
Maturity.
This team is becoming a more mature team and this particular run really underscores that.
They're not trying to ourscore mistakes...just a steadfast commitment to the system regardless of the game circumstances.
I said last season that if this team could embrace a defensive mindset and stick to it they would be hard to beat because no team in the League has the talent up front that this team has.
Knoblauch has implemented that system and it looks different from last season to me in a couple of ways.
First the dmen are creating more offence with a smarter transition game. Much less dumping the pucks off the glass.
Also...because the forwards are backchecking consistently it is creating more rush opportunities which plays into this teams strength...scoring off the rush.
The dmen are playing tigheter. Better gap control and they (along with the forwards) are puck pressuring more than last season.
Knoblauch has more of the team involved as well. He has given certain players defined roles (making them more involved with more minutes) and this allows them to reduce the minutes for Draisaitl and McDavid as well.
Lastly the improvement in players like Deharnais, Foegele, and McLeod has made a world of difference. Especially with the secondary scoring.

So as a result of all this the team (IMO) is playing a system that is much easeier to replicate game after game.

Except for some slow starts this team has been an absolute pleasure to watch and I have a belief now that they can overcome virtually any scenario. That is not something I could say at any point in the last couple of seasons.
 
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MessierThanThou

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Every part of this is provably false.

McDavid played 21:05/game during the 18-2-1 run to end last season, he's playing 21:50 under Knoblauch and that number is going up - not down. McDavid plays more as the team needs him to play more, and that has not changed. Knoblauch has gone to McDavid at 22+ minutes 6 times in the last three weeks, and twice at ~26 minutes.

Also, depth scoring is down, not up. They had more than 60 goals from their bottom six forwards going into the playoffs last year, right now they pace to 40. Their top-six is down, too. If you're going to give Knoblauch credit for McLeod and Foegele, you also have to give him demerits for the PP, RNH and McDavid.

I said McDavid and Draisaitl were more quiet during this season's turnaround, meaning they are scoring less...how did you infer that to mean their playing time has changed?

Why should KK get demerits for the Powerplay when it's higher than it was under Woodcroft this season?
PP when Woodcroft was coach this season: 23.9%
PP now: 25.7%



So yeah, nothing I said is provably false. Your whole thesis is that the team got better as the season went on for three years in a row, so it was inevitable this season, regardless of the coaching...totally ignoring how drastic our improvement has been, and in a much shorter period of time compared to those previous seasons. And you're using periods of slumps to cherry-pick data to establish some kind of pattern suggesting that the Oilers' dreadful start was due to correct itself. Instead of isolating specific slumps, let's use increments of ten to compare seasons.

First 10 games of 2022-23: 7-3.
First 10 games of 2023-24: 2-7-1. So the Oilers started much, much better last season.

First 20 games of 2022-23: 10-10.
First 20 games of 2023-23: 7-12-1.

First 30 games of 2022-23: 17-13...still above 500.
First 30 games of 2023-24: 14-15-1.

41-game mark 2022-23: 21-17-3
41-game mark 2023-24: 25-15-1.

In 2022-23, somewhere around game 60, the Oilers started playing much better and ultimately finished at 50-23-9. Our turnaround this season started around game 30. I don't see much of a pattern here. We were never anywhere near as bad last season as we were under Woody's helm this season.



Also, depth scoring is down, not up. They had more than 60 goals from their bottom six forwards going into the playoffs last year, right now they pace to 40.

13 games of that 40-point pace includes games under Woody's tenure though. I'm curious to see the bottom six scoring average strictly under KK's tenure. Regardless....

"Warren Foegele and Ryan McLeod are leading the Oilers in 5v5 production over the course of this 14-game winning streak"

 
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Matthew L Wilson

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Jan 9, 2022
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You guys have a winner in Kris Knobloch. He coached the Erie Otters to four consecutive 50 win seasons in the OHL, which was a record. You won't meet a finer human being than Kris. When we went to an Otter's banquet in 2015, Connor McDavid spoke to the players and fans, telling us that Kris was the best coach that he ever had. Connor Brown and Warren Foegele both played for Erie under Kris. Here's several pictures from that banquet. My wife is getting an autograph. The other picture features Alex DeBrincat and Dylan Strome, who also played that year. That was a loaded team. Good luck!
 

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Stoneman89

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One of my constant criticisms of Woody is he was somebody that would grandstand and take credit. He was so boisterous and petulant there he is tapping fingers waiting for Sutter to shake his hand as if victory was Woody's . A little Napoleon. Its the problem and fault with people like Woody, Eakins and also MacTavish. Their favorite people are THEMSELVES.

When Mactavish came back from his looking for an assistant coach trip and instead found a headcoach and said. "This guy (Eakins) impressed me so much that he thought just like me" I was troubled by that. I knew what it meant. That MacT had been conned. Worse that he found another coach that like him, looked down on present day players. Its not accidental that both had run in's with players. Its because they thought they were better than the players. Lowe has that conceit as well. All of the above would regularly talk down to players, even to fans. If people are curious, on the football side Ed Hervey was another one of those. No room was big enough for his head. Typically these sorts of people last awhile but have a downfall when their hubris catches up to them.
I remember a lot of folks slobbering over Woody's hiring and the subsequent success initially. Might have had something to do with them tiring of Tippet, but he eventually fell into some of those same bad habits that are so tempting with guys like McDrai on your team. With Knob, I see something more sustainable and the ability to adapt and grow.
 

joestevens29

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I remember a lot of folks slobbering over Woody's hiring and the subsequent success initially. Might have had something to do with them tiring of Tippet, but he eventually fell into some of those same bad habits that are so tempting with guys like McDrai on your team. With Knob, I see something more sustainable and the ability to adapt and grow.
It's a lot of the little things he's done.

1st and for most he wanted guys to just play the game and realize it's a game, have fun.

Foegele to RW. Having coached him in junior and then watching him in Carolina he knew that he had success there before so he played him there again to see if it would work.

Shortening the PK to have more consistency and familiarity between all involved.

Seems to have been good at just overall identify roles for guys and it's been communicated well to them.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

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It's a lot of the little things he's done.

1st and for most he wanted guys to just play the game and realize it's a game, have fun.

Foegele to RW. Having coached him in junior and then watching him in Carolina he knew that he had success there before so he played him there again to see if it would work.

Shortening the PK to have more consistency and familiarity between all involved.

Seems to have been good at just overall identify roles for guys and it's been communicated well to them.
This might be the most underrated part. The team seems to enjoy coming to work everyday, I think even I didn't realize that fully.
 

Stoneman89

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Feb 8, 2008
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It's a lot of the little things he's done.

1st and for most he wanted guys to just play the game and realize it's a game, have fun.

Foegele to RW. Having coached him in junior and then watching him in Carolina he knew that he had success there before so he played him there again to see if it would work.

Shortening the PK to have more consistency and familiarity between all involved.

Seems to have been good at just overall identify roles for guys and it's been communicated well to them.
Putting people in position to succeed kind of captures it. And then nurturing it. As you said, he really seems to emphasize giving people a role and getting them to embrace it.
 
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