Kipper or Iggy

[Skobel24]

Not sure if this question would change your answer, but what if you could have either guy, for 5 seasons, who would basically repeat their best season.

Kipper putting up a .933 sv% during the season, and .928 during the playoffs

or

Iginla being a 50g, 40a guy, and one of the best guys in the league.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Iginla. People forget just how good of a playmaker he was, in addition to everything else he brought to the game.

I always shake my head when people say he was inconsistent due to his 65+ point seasons. His linemates couldn't convert a damned pass. Cammalleri was a god send for that one season.

 

[Skobel24]

Iginla. People forget just how good of a playmaker he was, in addition to everything else he brought to the game.

I always shake my head when people say he was inconsistent due to his 65+ point seasons. His linemates couldn't convert a damned pass. Cammalleri was a god send for that one season.

Agreed. Let's look at his main linemates since 2002.

Craig Conroy - Did really well due to chemistry, but not as good as his numbers suggest. A good #2 center.

Dean McAmmond - Same as Conroy. This guy was a middle 6 winger.

Chris Drury - Man he sucked.

Shean Donovan - Similar to McAmmond, this guy was ideally a 3rd line winger.

Martin Gelinas - Solid #2 wing. Strong chemistry with Conroy and Iggy.

Daymond Langkow - In my opinion, he was the best center Iginla had as a Flame.

Kristian Huselius - Very talented, had insane chemistry with Langkow. Insanely inconsistent though. I think Langkow and Juice were the best duo that Iggy played with on the Flames.

Alex Tanguay - Once again, amazing chemistry. Probably the most talented/successful linemate Iginla had.

Mike Cammalleri - He was amazing that first season here. It's a damn shame Calgary let him go. If they had a strong playmaking center, the NHL would have folded due to awesomeness.

Curtis Glencross - Did okay, especially once Jokinen arrived.

Olli Jokinen - His first tour was a disappointment. His second tour was better, but I really think it was due to he and Glencross developing good chemistry.

Brendan Morrison - I can't actually complain about him. He turned out pretty good. Especially since it really pissed Canuck fans off.

Then there was the bunch of random, over the hill/3rd liners they experimented with. Amonte, Stajan, Nolan, Reinprecht, Lundmark, Kobasew, Lombardi... Comeau...

 

[1989]

As much of a Kiprusoff supporter as I am, people who select him over Igunla for any reason are delusional, even for "positional need."

At one point, Kiprusoff was considered the best goaltender in the NHL for a season. But Iginla was considered to be a top-3 player between 2002-2004; not by position, but by the whole of the game. You just don't leave that behind for a player who was great for his position only.

 

[NorCalFlamesRangers]

Kipper was great, and I respect what he did for the Flames, but, for me, it's Iginla, no question. One of the best (if not the best) power forwards to EVER play the game, still producing at a high level in Colorado, has done it for so long, at such a high level, a lot of that time without great talent around him. Sure fire Hall of Famer, and the Stanley Cup is not complete without his name on it.

 

[Master Bill]

Iginla will be a Hall of Famer, Kiprusoff will not. Should it be any bigger of a discussion?

 

[Mitts]

Kipper AINEC.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

It's Iginla

1) Kipper at his best does what? Turn this team into the Montreal Canadiens or the Minnesota Wild or the 2014 Avalanche? A pretender with great goaltending masking real deficiencies?

2) Bennett-Backlund-Iginla
Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler

Think about that for just a second and tell me that doesn't sound amazing. That line we considered in the running for the best line in the league last year wouldn't even be the top line on the team! And imagine the power play with Gio / Iginla / Gaudreau / Monahan / Hudler as a unit.

 

[Calculon]

Both would impact the team at roughly the same level.

No question that Iginla in his prime was more valuable than Kiprusoff. But the thing is, putting Iginla into the lineup means taking someone out. It also means bumping Hudler down a line; and less ice time plus less skilled linemates result in fewer points from him.

Kipper would be a massive improvement on Ramo and Hiller. And yeah, ground breaking news apparently but goaltender's put up better numbers in highly defensive systems and poorer numbers on teams that don't play defense. Shocking stuff. Hartley's system obviously isn't as good defensively as Sutter's but Kipper would look pretty behind Giordano and Brodie. He'd look okay behind the others.

As the Flames continue to improve the personnel upfront and the lower defensive pairings, Kipper would look even better. Iginla's added offense would be huge but the Flames are already a high scoring team that is about to add Bennett and Poirier.

Good question.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

No question that Iginla in his prime was more valuable than Kiprusoff. But the thing is, putting Iginla into the lineup means taking someone out. It also means bumping Hudler down a line; and less ice time plus less skilled linemates result in fewer points from him.

I don't think that would really be an issue. The top two lines could have roughly equal time on the ice at even strength, and Hudler would only get bumped down to the 2nd line. The guy getting bumped off the roster would be someone like Bollig, which is perfectly fine (ideal, if anything).

 

[Calculon]

I don't think that would really be an issue. The top two lines could have roughly equal time on the ice at even strength, and Hudler would only get bumped down to the 2nd line. The guy getting bumped off the roster would be someone like Bollig, which is perfectly fine (ideal, if anything).

Bollig would still be in the lineup for the same reason Engelland is; they provide the truculence. Either Jones or Colborne would get bumped out.

And Hudler would still be playing with lesser linemates and on the second powerplay unit. Iginla's 20 or so minutes a game has to come from somewhere.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I'm still not seeing a problem if Colborne is out in favour of Iginla. I'd take Iginla NOW over Colborne, let alone prime Iggy.

 

[Devilspuppet666]

Kipper in a heartbeat for me... and if someone says he was average or overrated need to watch every flame game he played... he could let 5 goals in and still be the best player on the ice...

 

[Lunatik]

Kipper in a heartbeat for me... and if someone says he was average or overrated need to watch every flame game he played... he could let 5 goals in and still be the best player on the ice...

I did watch every game of his career as a Flame, I would suggest watching them without rose colored glasses because he had seasons where he was very average. It's a case where people loved the Flash, he'd make a few great saves and they'd forget about the muffins he let in.

 

[Devilspuppet666]

I did watch every game of his career as a Flame, I would suggest watching them without rose colored glasses because he had seasons where he was very average. It's a case where people loved the Flash, he'd make a few great saves and they'd forget about the muffins he let in.

i think were going to have to agree to disagree here... and to say rose colored glasses thing is odd because i like both of them pretty much the same (i don't like fighting, so im sorry if i offended you)

 

[Lunatik]

i think were going to have to agree to disagree here... and to say rose colored glasses thing is odd because i like both of them pretty much the same (i don't like fighting, so im sorry if i offended you)

I just don't understand how you can ignore the years where he struggled, which was every year without a Sutter behind the bench. That is no coincidence. Kipper was very average in those years, statistically he was even below average in some of them.

He did great things here but the combination of his first season and us having terrible goaltending for so long before him made people latch onto him and he became infallible. IMO Kipper isn't even even the best goaltender in franchise history. I think Vernon deserves that honor as he was here longer and was more consistent while being one of the better goaltenders in the game.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I did watch every game of his career as a Flame, I would suggest watching them without rose colored glasses because he had seasons where he was very average. It's a case where people loved the Flash, he'd make a few great saves and they'd forget about the muffins he let in.

Disagree. There were a lot of seasons where this team was way below average and Kipper was one of the reasons we managed to be an 'average' team.

Yes Kipper put up a lot of 'average' stats as a Flame, but I don't recall him ever playing like an average goalie for long stretches other than his final year.

 

[Lunatik]

Disagree. There were a lot of seasons where this team was way below average and Kipper was one of the reasons we managed to be an 'average' team.

Yes Kipper put up a lot of 'average' stats as a Flame, but I don't recall him ever playing like an average goalie for long stretches other than his final year.

I disagree. He let in a ton of muffins when the team didn't play a defensive style.

 

[Dertell]

Disagree. There were a lot of seasons where this team was way below average and Kipper was one of the reasons we managed to be an 'average' team.

Yes Kipper put up a lot of 'average' stats as a Flame, but I don't recall him ever playing like an average goalie for long stretches other than his final year.

The Keenan years but I don't know if it was on him or he played way too much because of the lack of competent backups. He totally blew it against the Sharks and Blackhawks though.

 

[Master Bill]

I just don't understand how you can ignore the years where he struggled, which was every year without a Sutter behind the bench. That is no coincidence. Kipper was very average in those years, statistically he was even below average in some of them.

He did great things here but the combination of his first season and us having terrible goaltending for so long before him made people latch onto him and he became infallible. IMO Kipper isn't even even the best goaltender in franchise history. I think Vernon deserves that honor as he was here longer and was more consistent while being one of the better goaltenders in the game.

To be honest I would say the only season he "struggled" as a Flames was his last season before retirement. Those games were when he simply couldn't pull out saves even on the first shots, let alone bad readings and bad rebound controls and all that crap. I have no idea what the hell happened to him that season but it looked like he lost motivation to play.

But he did average 73 games a season for 7 consecutive seasons since 2005-06, excluding his last season. The thing I give so much credit for him is that there really weren't and aren't many out there carrying that much of a workload for so long, as well as keep that level up like Kipper did.

Excluding that last season again, looks like Kipper had three statistically below-average seasons (2 in Keenan era and 1 in Brent Sutter era) - and I think for both of those seasons under Keenan, it's significant to note that he played 76 games each season which were the highest he's played in a season. 6 games of rest each season is pretty crazy, counting the factors like Keenan's offensive approach that often had Kipper see lots of pucks, which should've counted more towards his overall fatigue level throughout the season.

I wouldn't say he "struggled" like he did in his retirement season which was due to his own abilities, because during the Keenan era it was more to do so with the environment. And even despite the bad SV% and GAA, his W/L records were outstanding.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

FWIW, I think Kipper struggled largely in his last season due to whether or not Iggy was going to be traded. If he was being moved, well that would be the first stage of a rebuild and would also mean he could asked to be moved. There were a ton of distractions that year and Iggy was Kippers partner in crime, I'm not at all surprised that his focus was else where.

 

[InfinityIggy]

FWIW, I think Kipper struggled largely in his last season due to whether or not Iggy was going to be traded. If he was being moved, well that would be the first stage of a rebuild and would also mean he could asked to be moved. There were a ton of distractions that year and Iggy was Kippers partner in crime, I'm not at all surprised that his focus was else where.

I think that was true of a lot of players on the team that year, whether we would go the rebuild route or not.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think that was true of a lot of players on the team that year, whether we would go the rebuild route or not.

100%, we largely played ourselves out of a top 3 pick because our record was best after Iggy and Jbo were dealt, the distractions were gone. Unfortunately we had to settle for that bum Monahan. If only we had landed Barkov or Drouin.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Prime Iggy, 50 goal scorers don't grow on trees.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Kipper was the model of inconsistency. He had the ability to be absolutely godly for stretches, yet he would have periods where he was pretty bad (for his standards, bad was basically average). The big issue I had with him is that he never put up a good season while the team was doing well offensively; whether that's due to bad luck or whether he was actually unable to perform well in a system that wasn't completely defensively-oriented, I don't think I'm qualified to say, but I do know he was single-handedly responsible for the Flames' playoff failures for multiple seasons after 03-04 where he was one of the two primary forces that got them to the finals.

His faults were easy to overlook because his agility and his ability to make inhuman saves were unparalleled, but he was a very imperfect goaltender. He did let in some soft goals, and he wasn't as reliable as people seem to believe he was.