Confirmed with Link: Kings have traded Jonathan Quick to #CBJ as part of a deal that will send back Joonas Korpisalo.

[Sol]

Did Dean care about winning too when he didn’t buy out Richards

 

[King'sPawn]

Just curious, but why are we bringing up moves that eventually worked out as multiple cup wins made by the same management that made the moves?

 

[Lt Dan]

Teubert has a case for being the worst player taken in the 1st round this century. The only thing that may save him from that distinction is the 24 NHL games he played, however it's important to remember that was for an Oilers team that was actively trying to lose games at the time. Had he been on literally any other organization in the league he probably plays 0 NHL games.

- Sent to the ECHL at the end of his D+1 and D+2 (unheard of for a 1st round pick)
- Wasn't tendered a QO by the Oilers after his ELC expired. Again almost unheard of for a former 1st rounder
- Left for a 2nd tier European league (DEL). Most failed 1st rounders end up in the KHL, Sweden or Switzlerland.
- Retired after 4 years in Germany at age 26.

Him and Hugh Jessiman, Who I thank god every day that the Rangers took the pic before us. We all know this was the kind of player DT and the scouts creamed themselves over.

Hugh Jessiman Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Hugh Jessiman, a hockey player from New York, NY born Mar 28 1984 who was active from 2002 to 2015.

www.hockeydb.com

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Just curious, but why are we bringing up moves that eventually worked out as multiple cup wins made by the same management that made the moves?

Because for some reason people think it adds context to the conversation of how much this current management sucks.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Why do we never have a deep analysis on why Anson Carter was acquired? Or Brent Sopel?

 

[Kurrilino]

Just curious, but why are we bringing up moves that eventually worked out as multiple cup wins made by the same management that made the moves?

I guess they want to point out that bad moves are bad moves.
Only difference here is that Deans were masked by Cup wins, while Blake doesn't have a playoff team yet.

Throwing away 1st and 2nd rounders to add to a non playoff team is pissing people off, especially when those addition are not signing a new contract

 

[Sol]

Just curious, but why are we bringing up moves that eventually worked out as multiple cup wins made by the same management that made the moves?

Do we have anything better to do lol

 

[KINGS17]

Did Dean care about winning too when he didn’t buy out Richards

Unfortunately, Dean's loyalty to Richards the person clouded his judgment. That was a major mistake.

Having won two cups already with Richards on the roster and having him be one of the best Kings' players in the 2013 playoffs had something to do with Dean keeping Richards, but it was a bad idea.

 

[King'sPawn]

I guess they want to point out that bad moves are bad moves.
Only difference here is that Deans were masked by Cup wins, while Blake doesn't have a playoff team yet.

Throwing away 1st and 2nd rounders to add to a non playoff team is pissing people off, especially when those addition are not signing a new contract

Sure, but we're overlooking a huge difference - series and cup wins.

If someone bets their life savings and end up broke, what's the point of bringing up some guy who won the lottery? I just don't see an equivalence.

Do we have anything better to do lol

True, and I'm not even trying to suppress the discussion. I just don't see the equivalence when the outcome was very different, even if you assume the cup win is 100% luck.

 

[Kurrilino]

Sure, but we're overlooking a huge difference - series and cup wins.

If someone bets their life savings and end up broke, what's the point of bringing up some guy who won the lottery? I just don't see an equivalence.

The point is that Dean would looked at in a different light, if he wouldn't have won the cup.
And let's be realistic, we were damn lucky a couple of times.

Stoll hitting the upper corner in overtime, after Vancouver hit's 2 posts or the legendary choking artis Sharks.

If those game 7's went the other way, Dean would have been driven out of town with pitchforks and torches

 

[King'sPawn]

The point is that Dean would looked at in a different light, if he wouldn't have won the cup.
And let's be realistic, we were damn lucky a couple of times.

Stoll hitting the upper corner in overtime, after Vancouver hit's 2 posts or the legendary choking artis Sharks.

If those game 7's went the other way, Dean would have been driven out of town with pitchforks and torches

Right. But he did win those cups.

Blake has yet to win a playoff round. If Blake won a cup in his tenure here, he'd be looked at differently, too.

But right now the Kings are 9 seasons removed from their last series win, no prospects taking over any semblance of leadership yet, and the Kings needing to make room because of their cap structure. And Cammalleri was during a rebuild.

These posts going out of their way to villify Lombardi/defend Blake utilize gymnastics even Simone Biles would nope outof.

 

[KINGS17]

The point is that Dean would looked at in a different light, if he wouldn't have won the cup.
And let's be realistic, we were damn lucky a couple of times.

Stoll hitting the upper corner in overtime, after Vancouver hit's 2 posts or the legendary choking artis Sharks.

If those game 7's went the other way, Dean would have been driven out of town with pitchforks and torches

Every team that wins a Stanley Cup plays in several close playoff games where they come through in the clutch. The Kings performance in the 2012 playoffs was one of the most dominant in NHL history. Nothing lucky about it.

Right. But he did win those cups.

Blake has yet to win a playoff round. If Blake won a cup in his tenure here, he'd be looked at differently, too.

But right now the Kings are 9 seasons removed from their last series win, no prospects taking over any semblance of leadership yet, and the Kings needing to make room because of their cap structure. And Cammalleri was during a rebuild.

These posts going out of their way to villify Lombardi/defend Blake utilize gymnastics even Simone Biles would nope outof.

The only thing necessary to compare Dean to BLuc is to point at the banners. Those are the ultimate scoreboard.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

These comparisons between Lombardi and Blake always seem to revolve around some pretend timeline and never the actual timeline where, you know, Lombardi won two Cups.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Unfortunately, Dean's loyalty to Richards the person clouded his judgment. That was a major mistake.

Having won two cups already with Richards on the roster and having him be one of the best Kings' players in the 2013 playoffs had something to do with Dean keeping Richards, but it was a bad idea.

I don't know why we keep going over it either. DL acknowledged it was the wrong move. Everyone is in agreement on it. lol

 

[Kurrilino]

Right. But he did win those cups.

Blake has yet to win a playoff round. If Blake won a cup in his tenure here, he'd be looked at differently, too.

But right now the Kings are 9 seasons removed from their last series win, no prospects taking over any semblance of leadership yet, and the Kings needing to make room because of their cap structure. And Cammalleri was during a rebuild.

These posts going out of their way to villify Lombardi/defend Blake utilize gymnastics even Simone Biles would nope outof.

It would be a true miracle if the youngsters taking over the vet position playing 4 minutes per game with 4th line duties, while the vets have 0 burden of accountability.

Having Doughty running around grinning and interfering with the brass daily tasks is an embarrassment after his stellar performance at the playoff

 

[Herby]

I don't know why we keep going over it either. DL acknowledged it was the wrong move. Everyone is in agreement on it. lol

Because similarly bad moves are again being made, with many of the same justifications for defending them then being again made now.

This trade is similar to the Sekera trade. This trade never should have been made, teams that aren't contenders don't trade 1sts for rentals. Had the Kings wanted to pursue one or both of these players this summer, that would have been fine. But to just flush a 1st down the toilet because you think you can contend without a true top goalie, without a 3C and with two of Edler/Durzi and Walker taking a regular shift (with all 3 only one injury away from being in the lineup). The Sekera trade was not universally criticized around these parts either, there were many justifications for why a team out of the playoffs should have made this move. And while that team was a playoff proven team, they were also out of the playoffs at the time (where this one was a lock) and had no chance to sign Sekera (where this team may be able to sign one or both). The one consistent is that teams who are trading big assets for rentals should be locked in SC contenders, if you trade a 1st and miss the playoffs (2015) or lose in the first round its a crap trade.

There were many people who defended the MR non buy-out decision, even years after it happened. And it was not MMQB, anyone who objectively watched MR play in the 2014 playoffs could have seen it was over. But instead you got people grasping for the 2-3 plays he made as some kind of justification. Had this years team gone on a deep run both Edler and MacEwen would have had a few decent plays too. Richards was without question the worst player on the team in those playoffs, worse than even Jeff Schultz. Every line he played on was dragged into an abyss, especially defensively. But the GM brought him back for reasons that had nothing to do with ability on the ice.

 

[King'sPawn]

Because similarly bad moves are again being made, with many of the same justifications for defending them then being again made now.

This trade is similar to the Sekera trade. This trade never should have been made, teams that aren't contenders don't trade 1sts for rentals. Had the Kings wanted to pursue one or both of these players this summer, that would have been fine. But to just flush a 1st down the toilet because you think you can contend without a true top goalie, without a 3C and with two of Edler/Durzi and Walker taking a regular shift (with all 3 only one injury away from being in the lineup). The Sekera trade was not universally criticized around these parts either, there were many justifications for why a team out of the playoffs should have made this move. And while that team was a playoff proven team, they were also out of the playoffs at the time (where this one was a lock) and had no chance to sign Sekera (where this team may be able to sign one or both). The one consistent is that teams who are trading big assets for rentals should be locked in SC contenders, if you trade a 1st and miss the playoffs (2015) or lose in the first round its a crap trade.

There were many people who defended the MR non buy-out decision, even years after it happened. And it was not MMQB, anyone who objectively watched MR play in the 2014 playoffs could have seen it was over. But instead you got people grasping for the 2-3 plays he made as some kind of justification. Had this years team gone on a deep run both Edler and MacEwen would have had a few decent plays too. Richards was without question the worst player on the team in those playoffs, worse than even Jeff Schultz. Every line he played on was dragged into an abyss, especially defensively. But the GM brought him back for reasons that had nothing to do with ability on the ice.

When Blake wins a cup, we'll forgive his missteps and have more trust in his judgment. Like Lombardi earned.

 

[David Lunch]

Did Dean care about winning too when he didn’t buy out Richards

I’d make the argument that yes, Lombardi thought keeping him would lead to more winning; he was just misguided.

Lombardi’s compass was always oriented to locker room culture and a team being a family. I imagine he thought that showing loyalty to Richard’s would motivate him to rediscover his game/drive, and that cutting him would show a cold blooded executive/corporate judgement which could erode the sense of family that he had successfully assembled on the 2012-2014 Kings team, creating uncertainty amongst the remaining players and taking air out of the tires which gave them a “no brother left behind” commitment which helped will themselves through all those 0-1, 2-1 wins.

I think there certainly is truth to this way of building/managing a team. The problem was he was just unable to be moved from a rigid ideology which ended up not serving his purpose. It was a huge mistake, no doubt.

 

[KINGS17]

These comparisons between Lombardi and Blake always seem to revolve around some pretend timeline and never the actual timeline where, you know, Lombardi won two Cups.

Many people will say Lombardi started with a much better hand, and they would be correct.

However, when you are a new GM you should have the option to fold your hand without even betting and start over. This might have been a good idea for BLuc, but they had to keep up the illusion of being a contender after they lied to get the job.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Many people will say Lombardi started with a much better hand, and they would be correct.

However, when you are a new GM you should have the option to fold your hand without even betting and start over. This might have been a good idea for BLuc, but they had to keep up the illusion of being a contender after they lied to get the job.

Didn't DL start with trying to prop up an existing team though, before tearing it down? Hence the Cloutier contract and such?

 

[johnjm22]

It's the process. Not the outcome.

Bad moves are bad moves. Doesn't matter who made them.

 

[King'sPawn]

It's the process. Not the outcome.

Bad moves are bad moves. Doesn't matter who made them.

But the outcome helps determine the degree of how bad a move is. Drafting Hickey 4th overall was only a bad move because he was claimed off waivers, and the Kings lost him for nothing. If Hickey was traded for Penner, in which the Kings subsequently won the cup, nobody would care that the Kings took Hickey 4th overall.

But Lombardi got rid of Cammalleri for a first, then packaged that first for another to move up and draft Colten Teubert. But all those assets were part of a package that brought in Penner, who was contributory to a cup win.

You can posit that the Cammalleri trade was a bad one. But unless you have a pretty good argument that keeping him or making another trade would have resulted in more cup wins, criticizing the process while ignoring the outcome seems pretty silly.

 

[BigKing]

Because similarly bad moves are again being made, with many of the same justifications for defending them then being again made now.

This trade is similar to the Sekera trade. This trade never should have been made, teams that aren't contenders don't trade 1sts for rentals. Had the Kings wanted to pursue one or both of these players this summer, that would have been fine. But to just flush a 1st down the toilet because you think you can contend without a true top goalie, without a 3C and with two of Edler/Durzi and Walker taking a regular shift (with all 3 only one injury away from being in the lineup). The Sekera trade was not universally criticized around these parts either, there were many justifications for why a team out of the playoffs should have made this move. And while that team was a playoff proven team, they were also out of the playoffs at the time (where this one was a lock) and had no chance to sign Sekera (where this team may be able to sign one or both). The one consistent is that teams who are trading big assets for rentals should be locked in SC contenders, if you trade a 1st and miss the playoffs (2015) or lose in the first round its a crap trade.

There were many people who defended the MR non buy-out decision, even years after it happened. And it was not MMQB, anyone who objectively watched MR play in the 2014 playoffs could have seen it was over. But instead you got people grasping for the 2-3 plays he made as some kind of justification. Had this years team gone on a deep run both Edler and MacEwen would have had a few decent plays too. Richards was without question the worst player on the team in those playoffs, worse than even Jeff Schultz. Every line he played on was dragged into an abyss, especially defensively. But the GM brought him back for reasons that had nothing to do with ability on the ice.

20/20 hindsight and whatnot but the Kings were coming off of the Cup/WCF/Cup and just whipped up a seven game win streak when the Sekera trade was made. They lost Voynov so they tried to replace him for that season. Some pundits were picking them to win the Cup two-three weeks before the season ended...then they missed the playoffs altogether.

A team that misses the playoffs isn't a contender so I can understand saying the 2015 team wasn't a contender but those guys put together a legit three year stretch that bought them a lot of rope. Again, most points for a team not to make the playoffs. Missed by one point and finished like 2-15 in OT/SO. I don't fault anyone for making the Sekera trade.

The Lucic trade and not buying out MR are the two huge screw ups. You compound the loss of the Sekera pick with the Lucic deal when there is pretty much no way Lucic would re-sign here.

I still fully believe that Lombardi thought Voynov would be allowed to play again when making both the Sekera and Lucic deals.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Trading Cammy for a 1st wasn't bad.
Trading the first to move up in the draft wasn't bad.
Picking Teubert was bad.

Remember we traded Visnovsky for Stoll and Greene and I remember it being a controversial trade at the time that took a while to pay off.

 

[NikF]

DL made acquisitions to ignite a proven Cup winning team. The team wound up being done, but it's understandable you want to try to give that team another jump-start.

Blake is trading futures on a team that has failed to win a single playoff round and also for the most part failed to integrate key prospects. So what purpose did using a 1st round pick in this way accomplish if they can't sign Gavrikov?

Many here correctly stated this wasn't a true contender and the youngsters hardly benefitted from a stronger support, since they themselves were used as support pieces at best to ageing key players. It's different if you have early 20s players in key positions and you want to reward and test them with a veteran acquisition for a playoff run. The Kings were not in that position.