KHL Expansion Part VII

[vorky]

One might say this, but then they cannot say that KHL (by default) benefits foreign hockey programs, with any credibility that is. It is true that it is not the primary job for KHL to develop foreign prospects, but then again, it is not the primay job for Liiga to help rival company in the same hockey market (in this case Finland). If Russians takes the additude that everything should happen, as they want (without negotiations), it may work in former soviet republics, but it does not work like that in here. Liiga teams have build Liiga product for years and Liiga teams have to compete for consumers with normal market rules and live by the money they earn. Then comes KHL to the same market area. Breaks up Liigas biggest rivalry and feeds it's own club with 10 million extra euros, per year (good for hockey consumers, but not good for Liiga). So tell me, if you were a Liiga boss, why should you cooperate with that KHL team, in the same market area? Ofcourse you can do business with other KHL teams, as they don't compete for the same hockey consumers than you. But why give anything for free to that competitor, in the same market area? It does not make any sense, businesswise. If KHL would have included Liiga in negotiations about the expansion to Finland, they could have find a better solution. For example if Espoo Blues instead of Jokerit (same "metropolitan" area) would have been the finnish KHL team, I think Liiga would have had easier time to live with it.

You always talk how KHL should be run more like a business, but you fail to see this problem from business point of view. Would for example Liigas tv money go up, if they would decide to become a feeder league for a single KHL team? And as finnish hockey gets a lot more tv-money from Liiga than from KHL, why should Liiga put that in jeopardy? Even from the hole "finnish hockey project" point of view? If finnish hockey gets that 10 million every year from russians anyway, why should we put Liigas tv money in danger?

It is like with an elite league and 2nd tier, some teams play an elite league, others are in 2nd tier. Similar here, Jokerit plays the KHL, other Finnish teams play the Liiga & lower leagues. Of course they compete for fans, that is normal. And fans choose a product which is more interesting for them.

So, does Liiga want to ignore Jokerit forever? How does it help the Liiga? People know there is Jokerit, even without the Liiga´s promotion.

This outdoor game, an cooperation of Jokerit & HIFK, was a good idea. Of course, it was due to the Finnish 100´s. Why not to do the same in the future, I mean a game between Jokerit & a Liiga team? An outdoor game or classic game in arena, does not matter. People will come to the game, TV will broadcast it, you can make a deal with the KHL to promote the game in Russia (btw, a promotion of the Liiga). Just an idea.

By loaning players to the Liiga I meant that it would increase a level of the game in the Liiga, Jokerit players would have a practice (btw, good for FIN NT), young Liiga players would play against better players.

 

[Albatros]

If the Russians are willing to pay enough for Liiga to make such arrangements I'm sure they would listen, but for free or cheap there's no reason to help the competition in any kind of way.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

It is like with an elite league and 2nd tier, some teams play an elite league, others are in 2nd tier. Similar here, Jokerit plays the KHL, other Finnish teams play the Liiga & lower leagues. Of course they compete for fans, that is normal. And fans choose a product which is more interesting for them.

So, does Liiga want to ignore Jokerit forever? How does it help the Liiga? People know there is Jokerit, even without the Liiga´s promotion.

This outdoor game, an cooperation of Jokerit & HIFK, was a good idea. Of course, it was due to the Finnish 100´s. Why not to do the same in the future, I mean a game between Jokerit & a Liiga team? An outdoor game or classic game in arena, does not matter. People will come to the game, TV will broadcast it, you can make a deal with the KHL to promote the game in Russia (btw, a promotion of the Liiga). Just an idea.

By loaning players to the Liiga I meant that it would increase a level of the game in the Liiga, Jokerit players would have a practice (btw, good for FIN NT), young Liiga players would play against better players.

First you have to admit that the KHL and Russia don't suck, I'm not sure they are ready to take this difficult step

 

[Toro2017]

First you have to admit that the KHL and Russia don't suck, I'm not sure they are ready to take this difficult step

I don't know, who are you talking about, but I (for one) don't think KHL sucks. Ice hockey is a small sports in global sense and when KHL is trying to grow the game, it is a good thing. Expansion in to Asia is good thing. That possible Silk Road Cup would be good thing.

But as we don't live in a perfect world (in perfect world Donbass would still be a part of KHL, there would not be a war and in Finland there would be a KHL team that would unite finnish hockey fans, instead of dividing them), there is also somethings that are not so good. For one, the way KHL expanded to Finland. It was not done in the way, where they would seek the best solution for all. More like an attack, where KHL did try to find the weakest link in finnish hockey. They found it and did strike on it with no mercy.

And after this they are asking for cooperation.. =)

But hey, as they say, everything has a price. Maybe Jokerit has not found it yet. Or maybe they have and decided that the best cost / benefit ratio will come with cooperating with Kiekko-Vantaa.

 

[Toro2017]

By loaning players to the Liiga I meant that it would increase a level of the game in the Liiga, Jokerit players would have a practice (btw, good for FIN NT), young Liiga players would play against better players.

Before the season I read some article about those players of Jokerit, that had a kind of a "two way" contracts. If I remember correctly, there were five of them. Do you know what? I don't remember any of those five players names, so they would probably not be like first liners, in any Liiga team. And if so, would probably not increase the level of play that much.

Liiga got a new tv-deal and before it was like 15 million euros per year. Now it is rumored that the new deal might be as high as 23 million euros per year. Would you say for sure that it would have been even bigger, if Liiga would have serve as feeder league for one KHL team, for four years now? If you can't say yes, then the question still stands "why would Liiga cooperate with KHLs team in Finland, from business point of view"?

 

[Jussi]

You care so little that are always posting here

This applies to all Finns:

 

[Jussi]

By loaning players to the Liiga I meant that it would increase a level of the game in the Liiga, Jokerit players would have a practice (btw, good for FIN NT), young Liiga players would play against better players.

First of all, Jokerit can loan out players to Liiga clubs, the loan just has to be for for the whole season. Second, Jokerit don't have the money to attract players that they can easily loan out. They'e not in the same position as SKA. The extra players they have are Mestis level players. Feel free to point out which players in this season's Jokerit roster, that are not regulars in KHL, would enforce a Liiga squad.

 

[Jussi]

Before the season I read some article about those players of Jokerit, that had a kind of a "two way" contracts. If I remember correctly, there were five of them. Do you know what? I don't remember any of those five players names, so they would probably not be like first liners, in any Liiga team. And if so, would probably not increase the level of play that much.

Liiga got a new tv-deal and before it was like 15 million euros per year. Now it is rumored that the new deal might be as high as 23 million euros per year. Would you say for sure that it would have been even bigger, if Liiga would have serve as feeder league for one KHL team, for four years now? If you can't say yes, then the question still stands "why would Liiga cooperate with KHLs team in Finland, from business point of view"?

IIRC, some Liiga club boss said that they'd lose sponsors if they submitted to a farm club for Jokerit status. They have to be serious about fighting for the title or playoffs spot, they can't risk losing a line full of players due to being recalled by Jokerit at a stage when it'd be very hard to find replacements.

 

[vorky]

Well, Gernot Tripcke is not only the Managing Director of the DEL (with a currently expiring contract this summer) but also a board member for the CHL. 4 Months ago he gave an interview in Germany in which he discussed the success of the DEL teams in the CHL this year and upon question from the interviewer also discussed KHL involvement, stating that the KHL will not get any special treatment but there is a regular dialog between the CHL and the KHL about the future of the competition and the latters involvement therein.
So in light of that I'd say he was in Astana as a representative of the CHL more so than the DEL.

Gernot Tripcke was interviewed by a German website. Does anybody have an access to the article? There should be an sentence: "Auch der Kontakt zur russischen KHL wird immer intensiver und einfacher" = "The contact with the Russian KHL is becoming ever more intense and easier"

Tripcke über NHL-Gastspiel: „Fest steht, dass die NHL als Veranstalter auftreten und eine deutsche Mannschaft einladen wird

 

[kabidjan18]

This applies to all Finns:

I must secretly be Finnish.

 

[Jussi]

Gernot Tripcke was interviewed by a German website. Does anybody have an access to the article? There should be an sentence: "Auch der Kontakt zur russischen KHL wird immer intensiver und einfacher" = "The contact with the Russian KHL is becoming ever more intense and easier"

Tripcke über NHL-Gastspiel: „Fest steht, dass die NHL als Veranstalter auftreten und eine deutsche Mannschaft einladen wird

It could also mean more straightforward or onesided. The word "einfach" has plenty of meanings. Even I remebered that from my German language studies and I wasn't as fluent with that language as I was with English and Swedish.

 

[Albatros]

Q: "Wie wichtig ist Ihnen grundsätzlich der Kontakt mit der NHL?"

A: "Schon sehr wichtig! Wir haben ja auch international einige Baustellen zu bearbeiten. Und da ist die NHL ein sehr wichtiger Faktor. Gemeinsam mit den Kollegen von Hockey Europe versuchen wir, immer mehr Synergien zu finden. Auch der Kontakt zur russischen KHL wird immer intensiver und einfacher, da sich die Liga mittlerweile deutlich geöffnet hat. Auch wenn der Eishockeyanhänger in der Öffentlichkeit davon vielleicht nicht viel mitbekommt, hat sich gerade im Hintergrund schon sehr viel getan - sei es bei der Harmonisierung der Regeln und deren Auslegung oder dem Disziplinarwesen. Ein wichtiger Punkt ist auch der internationale Spielkalender. Das betrifft auch die anderen europäischen Ligen sowie die Champions Hockey League. Von dem her ist dieser regelmäßige Austausch wichtig und hilfreich für alle Seiten."

In that context it means less complicated, because the KHL is operating more openly than in the past.

 

[vorky]

Q: "Wie wichtig ist Ihnen grundsätzlich der Kontakt mit der NHL?"

A: "Schon sehr wichtig! Wir haben ja auch international einige Baustellen zu bearbeiten. Und da ist die NHL ein sehr wichtiger Faktor. Gemeinsam mit den Kollegen von Hockey Europe versuchen wir, immer mehr Synergien zu finden. Auch der Kontakt zur russischen KHL wird immer intensiver und einfacher, da sich die Liga mittlerweile deutlich geöffnet hat. Auch wenn der Eishockeyanhänger in der Öffentlichkeit davon vielleicht nicht viel mitbekommt, hat sich gerade im Hintergrund schon sehr viel getan - sei es bei der Harmonisierung der Regeln und deren Auslegung oder dem Disziplinarwesen. Ein wichtiger Punkt ist auch der internationale Spielkalender. Das betrifft auch die anderen europäischen Ligen sowie die Champions Hockey League. Von dem her ist dieser regelmäßige Austausch wichtig und hilfreich für alle Seiten."

In that context it means less complicated, because the KHL is operating more openly than in the past.

Thanks. A positive news.

So I was right, there will be more cooperation between the leagues, the DEL and the KHL respectively. If they all agreed on one international calendar, it would be a success.

 

[hansomreiste]

Not exactly sure how to translate the news but there are positive things going on in Uzbekistan.

В Узбекистане создана Федерация хоккея

The link above says that today, Ice Hockey Federation in Uzbekistan officially started working. Google says the federation was formed in 2013 so I'm not exactly sure what today is significant for but it looks like a good step forward. For now, only two clubs, Binokor and Humo, are included in the federation but they're talking about plans to open new ice rinks in different parts of the region and increasing the number of hockey teams.

Humo Arena is expected to be completed by the end of this year. While it's a multifunctional arena that can be used basically for anything, it will have an ice rink that could accommodate 14K people. Do you think we'll see a Tashkent-based team in the future?

 

[Go Donbass]

Is there someone with deep pockets in Copenhagen, looking to get an expansion team for Denmark? Because this new arena is perfect for a KHL team.

 

[Toro2017]

Is there someone with deep pockets in Copenhagen, looking to get an expansion team for Denmark? Because this new arena is perfect for a KHL team.

After that planned swedish expansion team Crowns got denied from swedish hockey federation, they had some plans to play in Copenhagen and Oslo, but so far it has not happen.

 

[Rigafan]

After that planned swedish expansion team Crowns got denied from swedish hockey federation, they had some plans to play in Copenhagen and Oslo, but so far it has not happen.

Swedish Crowns, its such a BAD name.

Denmark would probably be a better target. Fans seem to be there and the Danish league probably wouldn't have any complaints as it isn't the level of the SHL.

 

[vorky]

Since you talk about Swedish Crowns. Do they plan to join Estonian league next season? see

 

[SoundAndFury]

Estonia doesn't even have a proper pro league, joining it doesn't make sense.

 

[vorky]

Estonia doesn't even have a proper pro league, joining it doesn't make sense.

I do not know what their plans are. The source above says the Crowns played against EST NT before IIHF WHC & some Estonian team Vikings. Of course, the Crowns was a select team of a few guys who met a day before the game.

 

[Exarz]

Since you talk about Swedish Crowns. Do they plan to join Estonian league next season? see

Yes, they plan on joining the Estonian league, but the Crowns project as a KHL franchise is long dead. I don't even know what they're doing right now, it is all so weird

 

[ozo]

I do not know what their plans are. The source above says the Crowns played against EST NT before IIHF WHC & some Estonian team Vikings. Of course, the Crowns was a select team of a few guys who met a day before the game.

Sums up everything you need to know about this project.

 

[vorky]

Yes, they plan on joining the Estonian league, but the Crowns project as a KHL franchise is long dead. I don't even know what they're doing right now, it is all so weird

Estonia is really weird if speaking about KHL´s expansion. There was Ilves Tallin project, now the Crowns. Dinamo Riga played a few games in Tallin (OK, there was another event at Arena Riga at the time). Now the league is considering to host two Jokerit´s games in Tallin next season. That would make sense because Finland & Estonia are close each other (not only by location). On the other hand, Estonia is small market. Zurich & Vienne (potential hosting cities for the KHL games) make more sense than Tallin.

I will write some speculation. It was announced that Gazprom Export will sponsor Dinamo Riga & Slovan next season. Something happened behind the doors because it was possible to announce the sponsorship. It was not be possible a year ago. Positive signal for expansion.

 

[Albatros]

In Zürich a KHL team would be just another Lev Praha, the market is already taken.

 

[vorky]

In Zürich a KHL team would be just another Lev Praha, the market is already taken.

I talked about Zurich as a city where the KHL should play one game next season. Russian teams spend all summer in Switzeland every year, so playing regular season game in Switzeland is logical step. The same with Vienna which is really close to Bratislava, the Slovak club can market itself outside the border. Except Finland-Estonia connection, Tallin hosting Jokerit´s games does not make sense to me.