KHL business aspects discussion

[Toro2017]

In Championat.com some journalist is speculating on how KHL should play it's playoff games. I try to read this with google translate and if I got it right, he has seven option.

1. Every teams should play every other teams twice (once at home and once away) and then 16 best would go to the playoff. Basicly no separation on two conference. First would play against 16. Second against 15. and so on.
→ travel cost would rise in this kind of model, but ”sportingwise” it would probably be the best solution

2. There should be some kind of cross conference playoffs. So winner of western would play against eastern 8. Western 2. against eastern 7. and so on.
→ travelcost would also rise and for example this season SKA should have gone all the way to Habarovsk for first round, right after the olympic games.

3. There could be cross conference games after two playoff rounds. So basicly at the semifinal stage. I did not get, how this should work, but maybe the way that on this stage, from the four teams still competing the best in regular season would play fourth best and second best would play against third best. This kind of model it would be possible for SKA and CSKA to play against each other in Gagarin cup finals.

4. Copy the model straight from NHL, with wildcard and so on. But is it not like this at the moment? There is the possibility that from one division only three teams would go to playoffs and from other five teams.

5. After two rounds there should be some kind of a final four tournament. I dont get it, why anyone would like to shorten the competition at this stage?

6. No playoff, but the old soviet style. So basicly the winner of regular season would be the winner of the league.

7. Leave it as it is now.

But because there is these problems that some teams have to end their season pretty early. Did Kunlun end their season as early as january this season? So should there be some kind of a hybrid system with old soviet style and Gagarin cup playoffs? Every season regular season would go from september to april. And playoff would take place during the season. So first round would be like two weeks in september. Second round again two weeks in november. Third round would be two weeks on december. Fourth round two weeks in january and Cup finals two weeks in march. Every teams would get in (thats why five rounds) and playoffs would be played on the basis of the previous years regular season. So every season there would be the league champion and cup champion (Gagarin cup winner) and every teams would have games all the way to april.

 

[vorky]

@FiskarsGroup is #KHL partner for #GagarinCup play-off 2018. Seems it is Helsinki based company, see.

 

[powerplaymaker]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but interesting news from the KHL:

KHL is thinking about hard salary cap for 2019-20 season. Cap would be about 11 million euros. Teams can have one star player who is not counted in the salary cap. In 2020-21 the cap would be about 8,5 million euros and teams could have 2 star players without affect to cap.

This is very good new for the KHL. And very good news business vice.

But the again... I'm sure the big teams have their ways to break these rules. The might for example pay smaller salaries but bigger bonuses or something like that.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Yugra and Lada are oficcially out.

 

[Jussi]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but interesting news from the KHL:

KHL is thinking about hard salary cap for 2019-20 season. Cap would be about 11 million euros. Teams can have one star player who is not counted in the salary cap. In 2020-21 the cap would be about 8,5 million euros and teams could have 2 star players without affect to cap.

This is very good new for the KHL. And very good news business vice.

But the again... I'm sure the big teams have their ways to break these rules. The might for example pay smaller salaries but bigger bonuses or something like that.

Well the plans changed somewhat. Hard cap won't be introduced until the 2020-21 season and will be at 900 million rubles. For next season it will drop to 850 million and the following 800 million. Source being the Jatkoaika report on KHL's official report: Kaksi joukkuetta ulos KHL:stä - kova palkkakatto tulossa vuonna 2020 Regular season will also go to "at least 60 games".

As speculated at the jatkoaika message boards, will the big teams still find ways to circumvent the rules (are bonuses off the cap?) and will this lower salaries to such levels that non-Russians will choose other European leagues more now?

 

[Rigafan]

Total Sports to bring professional Ice Hockey Club to London « Total Sports Investments

Regarding a London team. We don't know if it means KHL (but its headed by some Russian who had ties to Portsmouth FC) they also were involved with the Edinburgh Capitals of the UK EIHL - so it could be a UK league team.

However they thrown around that hockey fans are in the "10 million" range in the UK.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Regular season will also go to "at least 60 games".

Chernyshenko later said 62

 

[Jussi]

Chernyshenko later said 62

What's the point? You take out acouple of teams, potentially reduce travel expenses a little, but instead of that you add more games, thus negating the effect. You're not going to attract any Western teams if you don't reduce the costs of playing in the KHL.

 

[vorky]

What's the point? You take out acouple of teams, potentially reduce travel expenses a little, but instead of that you add more games, thus negating the effect. You're not going to attract any Western teams if you don't reduce the costs of playing in the KHL.

I advice you to make a deep research of the KHL. I recommend you to read original sources in Russian.

 

[Jussi]

I advice you to make a deep research of the KHL. I recommend you to read original sources in Russian.

I'd advice you to do the same with Finnish hockey and learn Finnish.

Also, what does that have anything to do with adding more games to negate the affect of reducing travel costs by contracting teams from far out?

 

[vorky]

I'd advice you to do the same abotu Finnish hockey and learn Finnish.

Also, what does that have anything to do with adding more games to negate the affect of reducing travel costs by contracting teams from far out?

Have you seen an official version of the KHL schedule for next season? How do you know what will be travel costs comparing to current season? Lets say it will be 62 games, so a few more than now, but Jokerit will not travel to Far East, the club will play more games vs SKA instead. I do not know what are travel costs to Far East, but I am sure it is more expensive than travelling from Helsinki to Peterburg.

 

[Jussi]

Have you seen an official version of the KHL schedule for next season? How do you know what will be travel costs comparing to current season? Lets say it will be 62 games, so a few more than now, but Jokerit will not travel to Far East, the club will play more games vs SKA instead. I do not know what are travel costs to Far East, but I am sure it is more expensive than travelling from Helsinki to Peterburg.

It's simple math. Less long range travel = more short range travel. You're not reducing the costs much with that. It they kept the number of games the same, then it would work.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I'd advice you to do the same with Finnish hockey and learn Finnish.

What would the point be? I am not seeing vorky saying that Liiga does all wrong and that should change this and that.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

It's simple math. Less long range travel = more short range travel. You're not reducing the costs much with that. It they kept the number of games the same, then it would work.

I'm sure Kurri will be happy with the extra revenue from the few extra home games

 

[Jussi]

I'm sure Kurri will be happy with the extra revenue from the few extra home games

More home game, lower average attendance (that's how it goes in Finalnd). Jokerit also no longer have an anniversary season with extra evetns to rely on. Besides, they're still not going to end up with profit.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

More home game, lower average attendance (that's how it goes in Finalnd). Jokerit also no longer have an anniversary season with extra evetns to rely on. Besides, they're still not going to end up with profit.

Jussi, Jokerit will play in the KHL for a long time. Anything different is just wishful thinking. You need to get over it.

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

I like the Far East meets West teams' games. Maybe just the two - home and away for a pair of teams - would suffice to keep costs down.

 

[vorky]

I like the Far East meets West teams' games. Maybe just the two - home and away for a pair of teams - would suffice to keep costs down.

If I get it, they would like to come back to 2014/15 model or something similar.

2014

24 games against the other teams in their division (two at home and two on the road against each opponent),

14 games (one at home and one on the road against each opponent), against the teams in the other division in their conference,

14 more against teams from the other conference (comprising seven home games versus teams from one division and seven road games against teams from the other),

8 games where four will be against teams in their own conference (two at home, two on the road) and four against opposition from the other conference (again, two at home and two on the road). When determining the opponents and venues for these additional 8 games, the League consider practical things, including the geographical locations and the availability of the arenas.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Chernyshenko actually explained it in the video you linked earlier

 

[Jussi]

Jussi, Jokerit will play in the KHL for a long time. Anything different is just wishful thinking. You need to get over it.

They might not play under that name though. Remember, Harkimo leases the name from Jokerit Ry. If they (and him, if he chooses to walk away) decide they don't want to lease the name, then there won't be a Jokerit in KHL.

 

[vorky]

Chernyshenko actually explained it in the video you linked earlier

yes, 48+10+4, but he did not say how these 48+10 games are calculated - how many games within division/conference and how many against teams from opposite conference? He said about 4 games which will be "special", so rivals/geo-neighbours.

 

[Exarz]

Jussi, Jokerit will play in the KHL for a long time. Anything different is just wishful thinking. You need to get over it.

I don't see how this is any relevant to Jussi's earlier post. You just have to take a look at Liiga and how the high number of games are just drawing down the average attendance. It's just facts what he's pointing out and I am afraid that this won't cut the costs enough. Sure, 3-4 sold out games against SKA might boost the attendance a bit, but my guess is that next season will be even more games with around 8000-9000 spectators.

As long as they stick to the current format with playing the counter conference once home and once away, I have a hard time seeing the "clubs must become self sufficient" happen any time soon. The additional profit 1-2 home games against SKA would bring in ≠ the additional travel costs. It's just adding up on the red numbers.

 

[hansomreiste]

More short range travels don't necessarily mean that costs will remain the same. There's a HUGE difference between having to fly to Novosibirsk or Khabarovsk compared to Moscow or SPB. I see the point you're trying to make Jussi but let's wait for an official statement regarding the schedule (or the schedule itself) before pondering on the costs - I'm pretty sure KHL considers this while arranging stuff. Let's not forget: what's difficult for Jokerit might be actually impossible for some Russian teams, so it's not like KHL will make all clubs go belly up by forcing them to allocate %75 of club budget for travels.

I have to say that I'm really impressed with the latest decisions. Finally, we're getting a salary cap, which I hope will not be circumvented around with bonuses or some other tricks. Hopefully, Russia can pump in more money for KHL following WC 2018 and with new arenas coming up, things seem to be looking brighter at this point.

 

[Jussi]

More short range travels don't necessarily mean that costs will remain the same. There's a HUGE difference between having to fly to Novosibirsk or Khabarovsk compared to Moscow or SPB. I see the point you're trying to make Jussi but let's wait for an official statement regarding the schedule (or the schedule itself) before pondering on the costs - I'm pretty sure KHL considers this while arranging stuff. Let's not forget: what's difficult for Jokerit might be actually impossible for some Russian teams, so it's not like KHL will make all clubs go belly up by forcing them to allocate %75 of club budget for travels.

I have to say that I'm really impressed with the latest decisions. Finally, we're getting a salary cap, which I hope will not be circumvented around with bonuses or some other tricks. Hopefully, Russia can pump in more money for KHL following WC 2018 and with new arenas coming up, things seem to be looking brighter at this point.

Ok just to clarify, when talking about Jokerit travel expenses, it doesn't mean tickets and hotels only. It also mean insurance and Jokerit CEO Kohonen said after the first season already that they heavily underestimated the insurance costs. So it doesn't really matter how far they travel but how much and where. So even if they save on tickets for travelled distance, it's negated by higher insurance expenses.

 

[vorky]

More short range travels don't necessarily mean that costs will remain the same. There's a HUGE difference between having to fly to Novosibirsk or Khabarovsk compared to Moscow or SPB. I see the point you're trying to make Jussi but let's wait for an official statement regarding the schedule (or the schedule itself) before pondering on the costs - I'm pretty sure KHL considers this while arranging stuff. Let's not forget: what's difficult for Jokerit might be actually impossible for some Russian teams, so it's not like KHL will make all clubs go belly up by forcing them to allocate %75 of club budget for travels.

I have to say that I'm really impressed with the latest decisions. Finally, we're getting a salary cap, which I hope will not be circumvented around with bonuses or some other tricks. Hopefully, Russia can pump in more money for KHL following WC 2018 and with new arenas coming up, things seem to be looking brighter at this point.

Yes, we need to wait, because we do not know the schedule. Btw, many people do not realise the progress. The problem was in the past that the league decided on a list of participants in May or later, then a schedule was revelead in June or July. Today we have March & the list of participants is approved, so lets hope the schedule will be in June as promised. That is really big a right step.