Player Discussion Kevin Shattenkirk

Hunter Gathers

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Feb 27, 2002
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I don’t completely agree with you, but man what a zinger!

I mean, it's comical to complain about the $6.65M contract on the books for another three years (of a 29 year old player) and then ignore the $8.5M contract also on the books for another three years (of a 36 year old player).
 

silverfish

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I think to some it is. I remember when he was touted as a top pairing defenseman who can play against the opposition' stop players. In fact, I recall that someone even labeled him a great shot suppressor. Whatever that means.
It means exactly what it says... When he is on the ice, his teams give up less shot attempts against and less expected goals against.
 

True Blue

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It means exactly what it says... When he is on the ice, his teams give up less shot attempts against and less expected goals against.
And yet he is awful defensively. Not really seeing the logic here. When he was on the ice, there were many odd man rushes that were given up. Not really sure what he is suppressing.
 

nyr2k2

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I think to some it is. I remember when he was touted as a top pairing defenseman who can play against the opposition' stop players. In fact, I recall that someone even labeled him a great shot suppressor. Whatever that means.
He is. And it's pretty self-explanatory, or at least a quick Google search away. When he's on the ice, the teams he has played for allowed fewer shots and fewer expected goals against than they did when their other defenders were on the ice.
 

silverfish

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And yet he is awful defensively. Not really seeing the logic here. When he was on the ice, there were many odd man rushes that were given up. Not really sure what he is suppressing.
I mean, there's really no logic to it.

Shattenkirk on ice: -2.57 relCA60 | -0.02 relxGA60

In English: With Shattenkirk on the ice, the Rangers gave up 2.57 less shot attempts per 60 than they did while he was off the ice, and 0.02 less expected goals per 60 than they did while he was off the ice.

Summary: Shattenkirk is a good shot suppressor.

As nyr2k2 pointed out, he was also playing injured all year.
 

Bleed Ranger Blue

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Everyone should be willing to give Shattenkirk a pass last season considering his injury issues. If the injury, or the poor play, continues into next season, then I'll become concerned. Also, given the Rangers lack of talent on the blueline, and their rebuilding standing, its ridiculous to bitch about his contract at this time.

Either way, the reality of the situation is Shattenkirk is the exact type of advanced metrics darling who will get eaten alive by the fanbase if he isn't scoring 60 points from the back end. Whether that's fair or not, it'd go a long way if he added some tenacity to his game when he doesn't have the puck.
 

True Blue

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He is. And it's pretty self-explanatory, or at least a quick Google search away. When he's on the ice, the teams he has played for allowed fewer shots and fewer expected goals against than they did when their other defenders were on the ice.
So then why is it necessary for his minutes to be sheltered if his being on the ice limits the opponents offensive game so much?
He started the season with a torn meniscus and played through it. Maybe that affected his game? I don't know...seems possible...
Was it also torn in St. Louis where he was hidden from the opposition's top offensive players? I don't know...something seems wrong.
 

silverfish

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Then why has no coach he has been with, trusted him in the final minutes of a one goal game that his team was trying to win? Would you not want your "shot suppressors" on the ice at that time?
I mean I'd much rather have Shattenkirk out there than Staal and Holden but the coach clearly disagrees so f*** me, right?

EDIT - I'm aware Shattenkirk wasn't on the Rangers during the Ottawa series. That's clearly not the point here.
 

haveandare

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Then why has no coach he has been with, trusted him in the final minutes of a one goal game that his team was trying to win? Would you not want your "shot suppressors" on the ice at that time?
Could be any number of reasons - mostly likely because him being a good shot suppressor doesn't mean that a team can't have someone who is ever better than him at it who they'd prefer to have out there. He was on STL for most of his career - they had pretty great d-depth for most of the time there, wouldn't be surprised if they had 2 guys ever better at it than he is.

Another option is that the coaches he played for could have used other players mistakenly. We saw this pretty clearly in the Ottawa series, if a guy has a "stay at home" label even if it's no longer earned, a coach may try to close games out with him on the ice. AV kept throwing Staal and Holden out there becuase they're "shutdown guys" or at least one of them was years ago. Those labels take a long time to shake, some coaches never shake them. Similarly, guys who put up numbers are generally thought to be worse at defense because of this idea that nobody can possibly be good at both - modern day Erik Karlsson is a good example of this.
 

True Blue

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I mean I'd much rather have Shattenkirk out there than Staal and Holden but the coach clearly disagrees so **** me, right?

EDIT - I'm aware Shattenkirk wasn't on the Rangers during the Ottawa series. That's clearly not the point here.
I understand. But AV's poor decision making aside, he was not so trusted back in St. Louis either.
 

True Blue

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Could be any number of reasons - mostly likely because him being a good shot suppressor doesn't mean that a team can't have someone who is ever better than him at it who they'd prefer to have out there. He was on STL for most of his career - they had pretty great d-depth for most of the time there, wouldn't be surprised if they had 2 guys ever better at it than he is.

Another option is that the coaches he played for could have used other players mistakenly. We saw this pretty clearly in the Ottawa series, if a guy has a "stay at home" label even if it's no longer earned, a coach may try to close games out with him on the ice. AV kept throwing Staal and Holden out there becuase they're "shutdown guys" or at least one of them was years ago. Those labels take a long time to shake, some coaches never shake them. Similarly, guys who put up numbers are generally thought to be worse at defense because of this idea that nobody can possibly be good at both - modern day Erik Karlsson is a good example of this.
I guess that is the rosy glasses view of him. I believe it was not because every coach suffers from AV's poor decision making ways. But rather that they did not think much of his ability to play competent defense.

With that said, I understand the injury aspect and hopefully he comes back strong and proves me wrong. But somehow, I think that he is viewed as a glorified 4th forward for a reason. And it is not his ability to play defense.
 

haveandare

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I guess that is the rosy glasses view of him. I believe it was not because every coach suffers from AV's poor decision making ways. But rather that they did not think much of his ability to play competent defense.

With that said, I understand the injury aspect and hopefully he comes back strong and proves me wrong. But somehow, I think that he is viewed as a glorified 4th forward for a reason. And it is not his ability to play defense.
Those are two entirely possible answers to the question you asked. The fact is we can't know unless we can get in touch with past coaches and ask them, which isn't going to happen.

If you've watched a lot of NHL hockey, and I'm sure you have, you've likely seen nearly every coach make stupid decisions based on stale narratives about certain players. It's not all the unusual or unique to AV.

IMO, Shattenkirk's biggest d weakness is defending 1 on 1, which tends to look real bad when it goes wrong. From what I remember toward the beginning of the season, his pair didn't get hemmed in much and he was pretty good starting a quick transition out of the d zone, but when fast forwards got him 1 on 1 they had their way with him. That also could have been exacerbated by having a bad knee at the time, but I do think that's his main weakness in general.
 

silverfish

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I understand. But AV's poor decision making aside, he was not so trusted back in St. Louis either.
Pietrangelo and Parayko are likely better options than him. I don't think that makes Shattenkirk 'untrusted', I think he was just in a situation where his team was absolutely stacked at RD, hence why he was ever available in the first place.

Anyway: Shout out to probably the worst thread bump in HF history.
 

Off Sides

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Sep 8, 2008
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Instead of expected goals against, what happens if one used actual goals against per 60 (5v5) ?
 

NickyFotiu

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He looked pretty darn good early on but turned horrible. I have to hope the injury as a big reason for that. He is not a great defensive player. He never was as far as I know. The hope is that his offense more than makes up for his defense once healthy.
 

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