Karlsson's Season and Future Part II: E-Bay Watch Edition

[Burrowsaurus]

Trade Karlsson for the pick to get Mcdavid. Then when McDavid nears 25 years old, trade him for the next big thing and so on and so forth forever.

Thats how you build a winner folks!

I'm comparing mcdavid impact to Crosby. > karlsson.
You don't trade that.

Build a team around elite offensive defensman. Or generational 1C.

 

[Micklebot]

Crosby babysat Kunitz and pascal dupuis for several years.
Don't compare Crosby and karlsson. Different planets.

Crosby consistently looks like the best player in the league.
Karlsson needs to work on just that. His consistency.

Bringing them up just proves my point. Kunitz has always been a top 6 player. Dupuis was a 3rd line 2nd line tweener kinda like Foligno. Karlsson is skating with the equivalent of Eric Godard.

I'm not saying Karlsson is on Crosby's level, just that other teams do their best to surround their best players with capable talent. Dupuis and Kunitz are Karlsson's Methot and Kuba, not his Phillips or Boro.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

You've got it. Works for Uncle Eugene too and the internal budget..
Getting rid of top players and never ending rebuilds are what
we should aim for.

You know whats funny? In the past couple years I've made jokes about how this fanbase would turn on Karlsson when he neared 25 years old due to youth bias.

I didn't think it would actually happen, but here we are lol.

Why can't some people just be glad we have such an exciting player to watch? This guy is one of the most exciting defensemen i've ever seen in the NHL. I appreciate what he is, accept what he's not, and hopes the franchise gives him the support he needs.

Just watch him play

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I'm comparing mcdavid impact to Crosby. > karlsson.
You don't trade that.

Build a team around elite offensive defensman. Or generational 1C.

Its a moot point. WHoever has the first two picks in the draft are sure as **** not in a position to consider moving them for an established player, even one as gifted as Karlsson.

Just appreciate that we have Karlsson to watch 82 times a year.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Bringing them up just proves my point. Kunitz has always been a top 6 player. Dupuis was a 3rd line 2nd line tweener kinda like Foligno. Karlsson is skating with the equivalent of Eric Godard.

I'm not saying Karlsson is on Crosby's level, just that other teams do their best to surround their best players with capable talent. Dupuis and Kunitz are Karlsson's Methot and Kuba, not his Phillips or Boro.

But karlsson was still making bonehead mistakes with methot and kuba. Who do we need to get him to unleash his elite potential?

I would also argue that methot is a greater calibre of player than dupuis and Kunitz. At least he has been for Ottawa. Sooner or later karlsson is going to have to come into his own and carry a partner. I honestly don't think boro has been that bad with him. He wins board battles. Can recieve a pas. Isn't slow. Can complete a pass. Phillips I will give you. He is a huuuggge drag. Boro is a capable player though.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

You know whats funny? In the past couple years I've made jokes about how this fanbase would turn on Karlsson when he neared 25 years old due to youth bias.

I didn't think it would actually happen, but here we are lol.

Why can't some people just be glad we have such an exciting player to watch? This guy is one of the most exciting defensemen i've ever seen in the NHL. I appreciate what he is, accept what he's not, and hopes the franchise gives him the support he needs.

Just watch him play

Okay so no more criticism? Not allowed. Can't point out bad plays? Seriously lmao. Chill out. He wears the C. And people here like to call him generational. He deserves all the criticism and all the praise he receives.

 

[HavlatMach9]

But karlsson was still making bonehead mistakes with methot and kuba. Who do we need to get him to unleash his elite potential?.

Karlsson was super young when he played with those players so those mistakes would disappear if just got more experienced by playing with those players

kunitz is a remarkable player, i'd say at least the equivalent of methot

there's a massive difference between criticism and bashing a player, the latter is what takes place

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Karlsson was super young when he played with those players so those mistakes would disappear if just got more experienced by playing with those players

kunitz is a remarkable player, i'd say at least the equivalent of methot

A remarkable player.

Okay. It was his age. And then injury. Now his partner. Ugh whatever.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Okay so no more criticism? Not allowed. Can't point out bad plays? Seriously lmao. Chill out. He wears the C. And people here like to call him generational. He deserves all the criticism and all the praise he receives.

Where did I say that he doesn't deserve criticism?

Im talking about people wanting to trade him. If the Sens trade Karlsson, they're going to get a package closer to what Spezza got than something along the lines of a pick worth a McDavid.

 

[HavlatMach9]

he'd get a massive haul imo

puck movers are desired around the league, and Karlsson is the absolute definition of an elite puck mover, not just someone who can qb the powerplay, but drive even strength play in a way that you last saw with Leetch

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Where did I say that he doesn't deserve criticism?

Im talking about people wanting to trade him. If the Sens trade Karlsson, they're going to get a package closer to what Spezza got than something along the lines of a pick worth a McDavid.

Didn't you do the same thing a few posts ago making up the fact that we thought we should trade mcdavid when he's 25 lol.

True karlsson doesn't get mcdavid. But I would be willing to give up karlsson for mcdavid. Which means nothing. Just discussion on a uh discussion Board.

 

[Micklebot]

But karlsson was still making bonehead mistakes with methot and kuba. Who do we need to get him to unleash his elite potential?

I would also argue that methot is a greater calibre of player than dupuis and Kunitz. At least he has been for Ottawa. Sooner or later karlsson is going to have to come into his own and carry a partner. I honestly don't think boro has been that bad with him. He wins board battles. Can recieve a pas. Isn't slow. Can complete a pass. Phillips I will give you. He is a huuuggge drag. Boro is a capable player though.

Bonehead mistakes are part of what Karlsson is, and that's fine (some people have unrealistic expectations that he'll play flawless D and be the most prolific offensive D in the league). The problem is the good is negated when he's playing with scrubs.

Boro is a capable 3rd pair player. No more, no less. He's not an elite 3rd pair D, nor should he be waived and sent to the AHL. Dupuis is definitively a higher caliber player, I really don't see how you can think otherwise.

Methot is an average top 4 D, remember, he was pushed out of Columbus because of a numbers game. His first year hear he was forced into playing a shutdown role with Gryba and looked pretty good. Last year was disappointing. He's not at a level of a guy like Josi, or Hjalmarsson, he's more like a Boychuk. Don't get me wrong, I like him, but I think you may be overrating him, or perhaps underrating Kunitz. He's been a 20 goal scorer, 50 pts player pretty much since entering the league.

We've gotten a shortened season of Methot playing at a level where an argument could be made that he's a notch above Kunitz, and even then it's debatable imo.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Bonehead mistakes are part of what Karlsson is, and that's fine (some people have unrealistic expectations that he'll play flawless D and be the most prolific offensive D in the league). The problem is the good is negated when he's playing with scrubs.

Boro is a capable 3rd pair player. No more, no less. He's not an elite 3rd pair D, nor should he be waived and sent to the AHL. Dupuis is definitively a higher caliber player, I really don't see how you can think otherwise.

Methot is an average top 4 D, remember, he was pushed out of Columbus because of a numbers game. His first year hear he was forced into playing a shutdown role with Gryba and looked pretty good. Last year was disappointing. He's not at a level of a guy like Josi, or Hjalmarsson, he's more like a Boychuk. Don't get me wrong, I like him, but I think you may be overrating him, or perhaps underrating Kunitz. He's been a 20 goal scorer, 50 pts player pretty much since entering the league.

We've gotten a shortened season of Methot playing at a level where an argument could be made that he's a notch above Kunitz, and even then it's debatable imo.

Okay. Who do you believe we should acquire for karlsson. That's a question for everyone.


IMO. We don't need someone elite to play with him. If he truly is elite like everyone here says. He can make an average defender great. By leaving only the simple plays to his partner.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Even with his achilles injury, Karlsson was still the best player in the world in Olympics.

How about we keep this thread inactive until Ottawa has a contender and Karlsson has a LEGIT top pairing defender before we claim he isn't good?

Stuff like this baffles me.

 

[Karlsson2Turris*]

Even with his achilles injury, Karlsson was still the best player in the world in Olympics.

How about we keep this thread inactive until Ottawa has a contender and Karlsson has a LEGIT top pairing defender before we claim he isn't good?

Stuff like this baffles me.

Agreed. He doesn't even need an elite partner. Just someone adequate like Edler.

 

[Boud]

kunitz is a remarkable player, i'd say at least the equivalent of methot

there's a massive difference between criticism and bashing a player, the latter is what takes place

Blake Comeau must be a remarkable player too because he has more goals than anybody on this team wonder why?

I like Karlsson but unless he has someone coping for all the defensive mistakes he's making, all the turnovers then he isn't bringing much more to the team than what he's giving away. You can't have the league leader in turnovers playing 30 minutes a night how does that make sense?! People have been bashing Cowen and Phillips like they were coming straight from hell but when it's Karlsson then it's his partner, his injury, his age, his girlfriend, his friends leaving Ottawa, he lost his favorite pair of socks... Anything to find an excuse. How come Cowen has been playing much better with anyone but Karlsson?! How come Boro is solid but when e plays with Karlsson he's not as good?! If Karlsson would be an Elite player he would adapt to who he's playing with. That doesnt mean still having 80 points, it means to minimize his defensive mistakes and those for the most are on him.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Okay. Who do you believe we should acquire for karlsson. That's a question for everyone.


IMO. We don't need someone elite to play with him. If he truly is elite like everyone here says. He can make an average defender great. By leaving only the simple plays to his partner.

You just need a guy that handles fundamental defense very well, preferably a guy that can competent outlet the puck.

Anything more than that and it starts to chip away at how good the rest of the roster has to be to compete.

Pronger and neidermayer significantly took away from what else was needed for Anaheim
To compete.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Blake Comeau must be a remarkable player too because he has more goals than anybody on this team wonder why?

I like Karlsson but unless he has someone coping for all the defensive mistakes he's making, all the turnovers then he isn't bringing much more to the team than what he's giving away. You can't have the league leader in turnovers playing 30 minutes a night how does that make sense?! People have been bashing Cowen and Phillips like they were coming straight from hell but when it's Karlsson then it's his partner, his injury, his age, his girlfriend, his friends leaving Ottawa, he lost his favorite pair of socks... Anything to find an excuse. How come Cowen has been playing much better with anyone but Karlsson?! How come Boro is solid but when e plays with Karlsson he's not as good?! If Karlsson would be an Elite player he would adapt to who he's playing with. That doesnt mean still having 80 points, it means to minimize his defensive mistakes and those for the most are on him.

When you play with karlsson you're on the ice more and you're on the ice against the best.

Other than methot, most of our guys will eventually struggle with it.

Force karlsson to chane to adapt to inadequate partners and you get an inadequate partner and an ordinary pmd who doesn't play well in a fundamental sense.

It's a big concern to the organization to have a partner that compliments him as he's one of the most unique players in the league that has to play a certain way.

Fortunately finding someone that can handle defense in the traditional sense requires only any legitimate top 4 dman that isn't labelled a more
One dimensional pmd. Most defense first top 4 guys move the puck atleast adequately.

 

[Boud]

When you play with karlsson you're on the ice more and you're on the ice against the best.

Other than methot, most of our guys will eventually struggle with it.

Fair point! But I think it has a lot to do with Karlsson relying solely on his partner to play defense when he's doing something else somewhere on the ice where he isn't supposed to be also.

 

[Micklebot]

Okay. Who do you believe we should acquire for karlsson. That's a question for everyone.


IMO. We don't need someone elite to play with him. If he truly is elite like everyone here says. He can make an average defender great. By leaving only the simple plays to his partner.

When did anyone say we needed someone elite to play with him? We'd be happy with healthy Methot or Kuba 11/12.

I like the idea of Staal (may be hit or miss because his eye injury). Edler would be great , hopefully the canucks melt down and he becomes available (though we probably wouldn't go after him.

Enstrom would be ideal, and I wouldn't mind Yandle. Though they are more puck movers.

Problem is top 4 D don't become available often. We should have jumped on Hjalmarsson when he was rumoured available.

Imo though, the team want's to develop someone from within and use Methot as a stopgap. I doubt we make any moves unless we move methot.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Karlsson not having partners is such a lame excuse.

He's played well without elite partners beofre. He's played well with methot. He's played well with kuba. He's at great games this year with Phillips. And boro.
He's having an up and down start to the year. Why can't people accept that? It's just the way it is. He hasn't been his usual self. Getting beat one on one. Making mind boggling decisions with pinches straying into open ice. But he's also had great games this year. He's been inconsistent. People don't have to jump all over ale veryone who points this out "well what about his partner what did he do!!!???" Just stop it. If he's elite he will take care of himself. Which he is totally capable of.

People are just so against saying karlsson had a terrible game (which he has had this year). And when they do admit it. It's followed but like 20 different excuses. There's one thing karlsson misses that has taken adjusting. It's not partners. It's not coaching. It's not his Achilles. It's jason spezza. He came into this league giving spezza the puck. He's never played without him. But he's clearly adjusting.

Funny, it was considered a great excuse for Spezza when his play didn't meet expectations.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

When did anyone say we needed someone elite to play with him? We'd be happy with healthy Methot or Kuba 11/12.

I like the idea of Staal (may be hit or miss because his eye injury). Edler would be great , hopefully the canucks melt down and he becomes available (though we probably wouldn't go after him.

Enstrom would be ideal, and I wouldn't mind Yandle. Though they are more puck movers.

Problem is top 4 D don't become available often. We should have jumped on Hjalmarsson when he was rumoured available.

Imo though, the team want's to develop someone from within and use Methot as a stopgap. I doubt we make any moves unless we move methot.

So what's the big deal then. Were probably not going to go get someone to play with him because teams don't give up top 4 d men. When is he allowed to start being judged for his mistakes? When can it not be his partners fault? Boro looks ok with him considering he is a rookie.
Some people are totally justified in their criticism. I haven't seen anyone like point out his minus. Who cares about minus. It's the other stuff. And I "bonehead mistakes" shouldn't be apart of ANYONES game. They happen. But should not happen consistently.
He's been totally fine for like 3 weeks now. His partner is not the problem.

 

[pepty]

You know whats funny? In the past couple years I've made jokes about how this fanbase would turn on Karlsson when he neared 25 years old due to youth bias.

I didn't think it would actually happen, but here we are lol.

Why can't some people just be glad we have such an exciting player to watch? This guy is one of the most exciting defensemen i've ever seen in the NHL. I appreciate what he is, accept what he's not, and hopes the franchise gives him the support he needs.

Just watch him play

You can be sure the same thing would happen is by some miracle the Sens were able to draft McDavd,
Endless moaning about his bone headed mistakes playing with whatever stiffs and rookies could be fit under the internal cap at that time.

 

[DylanSensFan]

You know whats funny? In the past couple years I've made jokes about how this fanbase would turn on Karlsson when he neared 25 years old due to youth bias.

I didn't think it would actually happen, but here we are lol.

Why can't some people just be glad we have such an exciting player to watch? This guy is one of the most exciting defensemen i've ever seen in the NHL. I appreciate what he is, accept what he's not, and hopes the franchise gives him the support he needs.

Just watch him play

Exactly...

 

[Do Make Say Think]

What I'm most curious about is, if Methot isn't the answer because he wants too much money or because of his back, which players are people on this board ok with trading in order to land someone who could play with Karlsson: Lazar? I think I'd be ok if the guy coming back was a surefire bet but it would still be a pain

We lucked out with Methot, the guy is a number 3 at very best but he's capable of being a 2 with a guy like Karlsson

We don't need to target a number 2, just someone we think could handle being Erik's partner because that should be a lot cheaper