Karlsson vs Matthews

[Ben White]

Dont need the stats. Look at the shift chart on natural stat trick and line up who he plays against. For such a defensive boss, he sure doesn't see a lot of top guys. You can judge for yourself.

Garbage take

 

[Ben White]

There's no question that Karlsson has had the better season so far, especially considering his trash team and how much he's leading his team in scoring by, as a defenseman.

However, it's pretty much impossible to take Karlsson over Matthews as a player at this point in their careers.


This kind of a poll clearly has something to do with Leafs, they didn't just happen to pick Matthews out of all possible players.

Yeah, noone’s saying a much older injury prone Karlsson is someone you pick over Matthews. Not by a long shot. But that’s not the question. Both the stats and the eye test suggest he’s the 2nd best player in the league so far this season. Then there’s the question how much you wanna factor in recent play before this season in the term “currently” so there’s room for interpretation. I’d say Karlsson is the better player when he’s fully healthy, that’s my 2 pennies worth.

 

[Notsince67]

Garbage take

Lol. It is a garbage take to ask someone to judge the quality of the competition based on who a player lines up against?
Here is the number then.
The xgar/60 of forwards against....Matthews 0.19 Karlsson 0.17
The xgar/60 of defensemen against.....Matthews 0.02 Karlsson 0.00

Per 60 numbers were used to account for icetime. Not that the metric means anything to someone who doesn't prefer to use their own eyes to see the deployment.

 

[ijuka]

Dont need the stats. Look at the shift chart on natural stat trick and line up who he plays against. For such a defensive boss, he sure doesn't see a lot of top guys. You can judge for yourself.

Looks pretty normal to me. Might be slightly easier competition but the difference's so small it's probably within variance.

 

[Notsince67]

Looks pretty normal to me. Might be slightly easier competition but the difference's so small it's probably within variance.

We are talking about goals above replacement. Effectively, his defensive opponents are replacement level.

 

[bert]

Karlsson not close right now. I am sure Matthews will close the gap. Who is the better player, Matthews, who would anyone take going forward Matthews. But he isnt better right now.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Dont need the stats. Look at the shift chart on natural stat trick and line up who he plays against. For such a defensive boss, he sure doesn't see a lot of top guys. You can judge for yourself.

EK plays 25+ minutes a night, he’s play against top players lol, check it out.

Speaking of defensive, Matthews is last for forwards on the team in, HDCA/60 , 5 on 5, over 200 minutes played. Not the best.

 

[ijuka]

We are talking about goals above replacement. Effectively, his defensive opponents are replacement level.

Well I'm looking at ice time of opposition.

And if your stats are 0.02 for matthews and 0.00 for Karlsson then I'd say "within variance" is just about right. When you have more ice time, your competition tends to be weaker. If the opponent's top player plays 18min and you play 26, then a minimum of 8min of that time you simply cannot play vs their best player.

 

[pcruz]

EK plays 25+ minutes a night, he’s play against top players lol, check it out.

Speaking of defensive, Matthews is last for forwards on the team in, HDCA/60 , 5 on 5, over 200 minutes played. Not the best.

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks Matthews is in any way a defensive liability is just out to lunch.

Although, I'll be honest.

Why would anyone feel the need to compare 2 players on opposite sides of the continent and who don't play the same position?
That's one of the stupidest forms of comparison.

Why would someone pick Matthews as a player to compare EK's current season to?

 

[Notsince67]

EK plays 25+ minutes a night, he’s play against top players lol, check it out.

Speaking of defensive, Matthews is last for forwards on the team in, HDCA/60 , 5 on 5, over 200 minutes played. Not the best.

He doesn't. He never has other than incidental shifts.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He doesn't. He never has other than incidental shifts.

And why is Matthews last on the team, for the HDCA/60 stat I posted, and Marner second last. Not the best.

You only commented on one point conveniently.

 

[TheDoldrums]

And why is Matthews last on the team, for the HDCA/60 stat I posted, and Marner second last. Not the best.

You only commented on one point conveniently.

Matthews is also first in HDCF/60, the Leafs get over 58% of the high danger chances when Matthews is on the ice.

Why? Because you want a lot of things to happen on the ice when your best player is playing, having more chances is a good thing when you have the talent advantage.

When the Leafs 3rd and 4th lines are out there the team wants less things to happen, there are less chances offensively and defensively.

 

[pcruz]

Matthews is also first in HDCF/60, the Leafs get over 58% of the high danger chances when Matthews is on the ice.

Why? Because you want a lot of things to happen on the ice when your best player is playing, having more chances is a good thing when you have the talent advantage.

When the Leafs 3rd and 4th lines are out there the team wants less things to happen, there are less chances offensively and defensively.

I'm shocked, just utterly perplexed how it's possible that when a player faces the #1 line of the opposition (Crosby, Mackinnon, McDavid, etc) for 18-20 minutes a night, that they would be on the ice for good scoring chances for the opponents.

If you just add in the dominant Leafs defensive corps this season, and that makes it even more perplexing to me.

Defensive pairings of:

Giordano and Holl
Liljigren and Sandin
Mete and Timmins
Benn and Hollowell

Just look at the Norris quality oozing out of those names.

 

[MCR74]

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks Matthews is in any way a defensive liability is just out to lunch.

Although, I'll be honest.

Why would anyone feel the need to compare 2 players on opposite sides of the continent and who don't play the same position?
That's one of the stupidest forms of comparison.

Why would someone pick Matthews as a player to compare EK's current season to?

Desperation. I mean, if Karlsson is so f'n amazing, why not compare him to McDavid too?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Matthews is also first in HDCF/60, the Leafs get over 58% of the high danger chances when Matthews is on the ice.

Why? Because you want a lot of things to happen on the ice when your best player is playing, having more chances is a good thing when you have the talent advantage.

When the Leafs 3rd and 4th lines are out there the team wants less things to happen, there are less chances offensively and defensively.

Weird eh
Worst in HDCA/60 for forwards , and best for HDCF/60, What does that mean great shift, then terrible shift..

Also gets 71% offensive zone starts, that will help your HDCF.

Desperation. I mean, if Karlsson is so f'n amazing, why not compare him to McDavid too?

Because McDavid is better, probably the answer.

 

[Golden_Jet]

.

 

[pcruz]

Weird eh
Worst in HDCA/60 for forwards , and best for HDCF/60, What does that mean great shift, then terrible shift..

Also gets 71% offensive zone starts, that will help your HDCF.


Because McDavid is better, probably the answer.

Also leads the team in such offensive metrics as blocked shots (forwards) and takeaways.

In fact, over the last 4 seasons, Matthews' 203 blocked shots lead all forwards by 50 over the next forward (Kerfoot @ 158) and 70 more than the next (Marner @ 131).

In takeaways, Matthews' 247 lead the team by 23 over the next player (Marner @ 224) and 91 more than the next player (Nylander @ 156).

The interesting thing is that Matthews and Marner lead not only the Leafs in takeaways over the last 4 seasons, um.....they lead the league.

The next player with most takeaways is some defensive scrub called Mark Stone who also has 224.

For some inexplicable reason, I don't believe this Matthews guy is a defensive liability out there.

 

[pcruz]

HAHA says the person who is shown statistics from the NHL itself that are counter to his/her own biased views of players from a team he or she obviously hates so much, but can't leave alone.

Doesn't it get tiresome to hate on other teams and players so much?

As a Leaf fan, I don't understand the vitriol and hatred against this team, because I don't understand the same hatred and vitriol against others, by Leafs fans like: McDavid, Draisaitl, etc....


I promise you, your life will be better, and your mental health will improve drastically if you focus on enjoying your favourite team and spend less time hating on Toronto and their players.

 

[Buck Naked]

Also leads the team in such offensive metrics as blocked shots (forwards) and takeaways.

In fact, over the last 4 seasons, Matthews' 203 blocked shots lead all forwards by 50 over the next forward (Kerfoot @ 158) and 70 more than the next (Marner @ 131).

Blocked shots is not a good thing to lead. That shows he's spending a lot of time without the puck in his defensive zone allowing the opponent shot opportunities.

 

[pcruz]

Blocked shots is not a good thing to lead. That shows he's spending a lot of time without the puck in his defensive zone allowing the opponent shot opportunities.

I don't know about you, but when Crosby, Draisaitl, McDavid, etc are on the ice, I expect them to be generating offense sometimes.

It's just natural that those players will not always be pinned in their own zone.

If I constantly have a set of players facing that top level opponent, it's folly to not expect them to be on the ice for a bunch of shots against, even goal scoring chances, and heaven forbid - goals against.

I just hope that the group of players I have facing those kinds of opponents, can either hold their own or even spend more time in the opponent's end of the ice than in their own end.

Thankfully, Matthews and Marner do just that, so they have always been a net positive in that regard.

I suspect that players like Bergeron are on the ice for tons of shots against and scoring chances as well, based solely on the opponents they're asked to play against.

I'm too lazy to look that up

 

[Golden_Jet]

HAHA says the person who is shown statistics from the NHL itself that are counter to his/her own biased views of players from a team he or she obviously hates so much, but can't leave alone.

Doesn't it get tiresome to hate on other teams and players so much?

As a Leaf fan, I don't understand the vitriol and hatred against this team, because I don't understand the same hatred and vitriol against others, by Leafs fans like: McDavid, Draisaitl, etc....


I promise you, your life will be better, and your mental health will improve drastically if you focus on enjoying your favourite team and spend less time hating on Toronto and their players.

Not my fault you didn’t t like that stats that show 71% Ozone starts and worst HDCA.

 

[avsfan9]

Sweet baby Jesus

 

[MCR74]

I promise you, your life will be better, and your mental health will improve drastically if you focus on enjoying your favourite team and spend less time hating on Toronto and their players.

That's asking a lot. Hating on the team appears to be a lifestyle choice for some.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That's asking a lot. Hating on the team appears to be a lifestyle choice for some.

Why would that be your lifestyle choice, that’s weird, don’t get so caught up in it, would be my advice.

 

[Muffin]

Odd how many posters seem to disregard the degree of unicity it takes for a Dman to be 2nd in ES points, while Dmen usually collect the majority of their points on the PP.

Using ES points as an argument against Matthews?