Proposal: Kadri for a blueliner

[Liferleafer]

Lifer,

You and firstemperor I respect your guys opinions a lot about the Leafs. Based on the quote from him you just quoted and your post then you have no one like that in your system including Liljegren. While he’s talented puck mover.....he’s not all those qualities emperor listed. While I know you’ve been reluctant to part with Liljegren in the past......would you part with him+ to get a top pairing rhd with the qualities emperor listed?

I would need to know the player before i could answer. I really do not want to trade Liljegren...i watched him all year, he looks really good. My hope has always been to aim lower and hope to trade picks/prospects (not Lil) to get a 2nd pair guy that can slide up.

 

[firstemperor]

Disagree. Leafs need dmen that are good at controlled exits. Puck movers

You can't have all of the above so I value the other facets far more...particularly physicality and blocking shots. Otherwise, your probably talking about a #1D to begin with.

As for exiting the zone, all that is a moot point if said player can't exit his zone effectively. But they probably wouldn't be considered a top 4 in that case. We don't need an elite PMD by any means, our left size can all exit the zone effectively and we should be better next year with the loss of JVR/Bozak (lack of a breakout guy once Marner was taken off that line) and infusion of Johnsson/Kapanen (two breakout guys, one of which- Johnsson was elite at for the AHL level). Just get a guy who bumps Hainsey to the bottom-pairing, as he can't exit his end at all (I am optimistic about Zaitsev, I think he showed that was more than capable last year into the playoffs).

 

[Marshy]

Low end #1 on bottom feeder. Great #2 on a contender.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Argument is irrelevant bc Kadri is worth a hell of alot more than Nurse and they wouldn't entertain something like that

He isn’t. 23 year old top four shutdown defencemen are worth a lot in their own right. You’re overrating Kadri.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Meh most smart people's models I trust have him in the 15-20 range

In no particular order here are the centers I would take over Kadri 100%:

McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Mackinnon, Kopitar, Stamkos, Barzal, Staal, Tavares, Matthews, Barkov, Seguin, Kuznetsov, Trocheck, Backstrom, Draisaitl, Eichel, Bergeron, O’Reilly, Couture, Scheifele, RNH.

That’s 22 centers I’d rather have and then there are a bunch of debatable players after those.

 

[Liferleafer]

He isn’t. 23 year old top four shutdown defencemen are worth a lot in their own right. You’re overrating Kadri.

Kadri is in the top 27 in production for centers over the past 2 seasons with Leo friggin' Komarov as his winger....and he's signed for term at 4.5....how is anyone overrating Kadri? What else is he supposed to do?

 

[sansabri]

He would be a #1C on a number of teams including Montreal

Plekanec was our #1C for a while. Did that make him a legit #1C?

 

[Liferleafer]

Plekanec was our #1C for a while. Did that make him a legit #1C?

Does being in the top 27 producing actual centers over the past 2 seasons?

 

[Notsince67]

You can't have all of the above so I value the other facets far more...particularly physicality and blocking shots. Otherwise, your probably talking about a #1D to begin with.

As for exiting the zone, all that is a moot point if said player can't exit his zone effectively. But they probably wouldn't be considered a top 4 in that case. We don't need an elite PMD by any means, our left size can all exit the zone effectively and we should be better next year with the loss of JVR/Bozak (lack of a breakout guy once Marner was taken off that line) and infusion of Johnsson/Kapanen (two breakout guys, one of which- Johnsson was elite at for the AHL level). Just get a guy who bumps Hainsey to the bottom-pairing, as he can't exit his end at all (I am optimistic about Zaitsev, I think he showed that was more than capable last year into the playoffs).

Sure but a hole is a hole. If you can't fill it don't spend assets trying to. Polak was a great guy on the physical end. The problem is that if you can't get the puck out, you get a lot of shots on goal (which the leafs had).

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

See columbus trading johansson for jones.

See columbus trading johansson for jones.

Yup and look at them now it looks like it's on the brink of falling apart

 

[Notsince67]

Plekanec was our #1C for a while. Did that make him a legit #1C?

Kadri would #1 in Calgary and Vancouver as well

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Kadri is in the top 8 in production for centers over the past 2 seasons with Leo friggin' Komarov as his winger....and he's signed for term at 4.5....how is anyone overrating Kadri? What else is he supposed to do?

Kadri is 27th among listed centres for points over the last two seasons, what are you talking about with 8th.

He’d be 3C in Edmonton just like he’s going to be 3C in Toronto. We aren’t trading any of our top four defencemen for a centre we don’t need or want.

 

[Liferleafer]

Kadri is 27th among listed centres for points over the last two seasons, what are you talking about with 8th.

Total honesty...my 2 is sticking on my stupid phone...i keep trying to type 28 (keep missing it, i will edit)....27 is actually better, point is, he's in the top 31 which is 1C numbers while getting less icetime and playing with Komarov.

 

[sansabri]

Does being in the top 8 producing actual centers over the past 2 seasons?

He has averaged 58 pts in his last two years - how is that remotely close to top 8?

Kadri would #1 in Calgary and Vancouver as well

I don't see Kadri over Monahan or Horvat.

 

[firstemperor]

Sure but a hole is a hole. If you can't fill it don't spend assets trying to. Polak was a great guy on the physical end. The problem is that if you can't get the puck out, you get a lot of shots on goal (which the leafs had).

Leafs are always going to be a high-event team so absolute shots on goals won't change even if we added in a #1D, IMO. That's not really a favourable metric to look at. That's just how hockey is played in this era.

As for Polak, he had his flaws, but he was fine in the bottom pairing role. Every team wants to perpetually upgrade their bottom-pairing D, for the most part. He was physical, and it was a nice bonus to have in the playoffs. He also cleared the front of the net decently. He just had terrible gap control and an awful stick. And like you said, couldn't exit the zone very well.

The bigger problem to me, when it mattered, is having Hainsey eating up heavy minutes on your top-pairing- playing against top lines regularly, and who can't exit his end of the ice effectively. We also need a guy who can eat those PK minutes, and Hainsey would be fine as a supplement to that on a bottom-pairing spot. That's who we need to move down the lineup. A guy who is playing above his slot at a premium position, who we'll need to replace eventually.

As for Polak- I'm not going to pick on the bottom-pairing, 4th line guys too much in the cap era as long as they can do their job relatively effectively. He was a convenient scapegoat because he wasn't very good at times, but the last 2 years, I thought he performed admirably in a bottom-pairing role when it mattered. My opinion is Hainsey was one of the two players that got exposed the most last year when it mattered.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Total honesty...my 2 is sticking on my stupid phone...i keep trying to type 28 (keep missing it, i will edit)....27 is actually better, point is, he's in the top 31 which is 1C numbers while getting less icetime and playing with Komarov.

That makes more sense, I checked three sites and could not for the life of me figure out where you were getting 8th from.

Kadri’s a good player. The problem is teams need their defencemen - particularly the young top four with top pairing upside that you guys want for him. I don’t think anyone views him as a 1C. A good 2C sure, but high end defencemen aren’t traded for 2C’s.

 

[DoobieDubas]

He has averaged 58 pts in his last two years - how is that remotely close to top 8?



I don't see Kadri over Monahan or Horvat.

lol...

also eric stall is a beast but I would debate having KAdri over him just simply due to age factor and our window to compete. Not discrediting him but thats just my opinion to the poster who listed the centres better than him.

AS of today eric is better but over the course of the contract i like kadre better

 

[Digitalbooya]

Kadri would #1 in Calgary and Vancouver as well

Monahan vs Kadri would be a great debate.

lol...

also eric stall is a beast but I would debate having KAdri over him just simply due to age factor and our window to compete. Not discrediting him but thats just my opinion to the poster who listed the centres better than him.

AS of today eric is better but over the course of the contract i like kadre better

Well, sure. Maybe in 2-3 years Kadri will be better once Staal does decline. As of right now Staal is better and I would say it’s not particularly close.

 

[Notsince67]

He has averaged 58 pts in his last two years - how is that remotely close to top 8?



I don't see Kadri over Monahan or Horvat.

Goals

 

[Liferleafer]

He has averaged 58 pts in his last two years - how is that remotely close to top 8?



I don't see Kadri over Monahan or Horvat.

I corrected this one as pointed out by Chaoticorange,,,was trying to type 28. It's actually 27, which puts him at 1C numbers with less icetime and Komarov as his winger.

 

[DoobieDubas]

Monahan vs Kadri would be a great debate.

Well, sure. Maybe in 2-3 years Kadri will be better once Staal does decline. As of right now Staal is better and I would say it’s not particularly close.

so basically you just said what i said?


Here il add to the convo.....

Monahan vs Kadri. id personally take monahan and I'm a huge kadri guy.

 

[Notsince67]

Leafs are always going to be a high-event team so absolute shots on goals won't change even if we added in a #1D, IMO. That's not really a favourable metric to look at. That's just how hockey is played in this era.

As for Polak, he had his flaws, but he was fine in the bottom pairing role. Every team wants to perpetually upgrade their bottom-pairing D, for the most part. He was physical, and it was a nice bonus to have in the playoffs. He also cleared the front of the net decently. He just had terrible gap control and an awful stick. And like you said, couldn't exit the zone very well.

The bigger problem to me, when it mattered, is having Hainsey eating up heavy minutes on your top-pairing- playing against top lines regularly, and who can't exit his end of the ice effectively. We also need a guy who can eat those PK minutes, and Hainsey would be fine as a supplement to that on a bottom-pairing spot. That's who we need to move down the lineup. A guy who is playing above his slot at a premium position, who we'll need to replace eventually.

As for Polak- I'm not going to pick on the bottom-pairing, 4th line guys too much in the cap era as long as they can do their job relatively effectively. He was a convenient scapegoat because he wasn't very good at times, but the last 2 years, I thought he performed admirably in a bottom-pairing role when it mattered. My opinion is Hainsey was one of the two players that got exposed the most last year when it mattered.

Completely untrue. The common thinking is that controlled zone exits are even more important than zone denials. Leafs are pretty rock bottom when it comes to that (they resort to a stretch pass a lot). It is no surprise that this correlates to a high shot rate.
Sure the defense make up for it in blocked shots and keeping the shots out of the high danger zone but the poor transition actually attenuates the effectiveness of the offense. What I am saying is that the crazy potency of the offence could be drastically improved while limiting the shots on goal with the right kind of defender.

 

[Team Cozens]

Does being in the top 27 producing actual centers over the past 2 seasons?

Leafs need to trade Kadri for a Top 4 D now. His ice time and production are about to take significant hit with the addition of Tavares. I expect more ice time for Matthews as well after last year’s playoffs.
Babcock needs to play him more.

 

[Digitalbooya]

so basically you just said what i said?


Here il add to the convo.....

Monahan vs Kadri. id personally take monahan and I'm a huge kadri guy.

The conversation is about the here and now though. Nobody knows the future. Everyone thought Staal was done being a top 6 player when he signed with Minnesota. I’d bet money that Kadri’s production drops this year with less ice time though.

Monahan is a great example of why a team with a similar 1C to Kadri won’t go anywhere in the playoffs.

 

[ITM]

Leafs need to trade Kadri for a Top 4 D now. His ice time and production are about to take significant hit with the addition of Tavares. I expect more ice time for Matthews as well after last year’s playoffs.
Babcock needs to play him more.

Unless it's a Top 2 D, no, the Leafs most certainly do not need to trade arguagbly the league's best 3C. Kadri is an ingredient contending playoffs teams require. And with Tavares new contract and Matthews similarly positioned, Kadri is perfectly salaried for seasons to come at just as an important position as a top 4 D.

I would rather, trade our defence for defence that's needed than tinker with what seems like a masterpiece of assembly down the middle. Or, move from our prospect strength to fill the position. Not Kadri.