JVR questions

[PromisedLand]

JVR would command a 1st round pick and more. The 1st on its own, is more valuable than having him for the playoffs. Kapanen is not a 4th liner. Freddy was acquired with a first round pick they acquired in a trade. The assets for JVR i.e. a first can be used to fill holes. The Maple Leafs do not need JVR to make a run in the playoffs!! I hope the media is wrong with any info they have.

Yup!

 

[LeafFever]

I'd be open to trading JVR for futures. But the issue is the Leafs are all but guaranteed a playoff spot right now. The teams trading UFA's are all terrible and rebuilding.
JVR is not going to be resigned. He's getting medicore 5 on 5 ice-time. They are not going to sign him for 6-8 years.

 

[Mess]

On HNIC intermission it was reported teams asked about the availability of JVR and were told he is not available.

So Leafs are keeping him as an own rental and then prepared to walk away at end of season.

 

[kyle n00bas]

On re-signing: with (approximately) Matthews at $10M, Nylander/Marner at $7M, Rielly and Andersen at $5M, we're not going to have much to spend elsewhere, and a scoring winger is surely the role easiest for us to fill internally, both now and a couple of years down the road when guys like Bracco/Timashov might be knocking at the door.

On trading: I think, if not for playing in the Atlantic, we'd see ourselves as more of a bubble team in transition rather than some solid playoff contender. As difficult a sell as trading a player like JVR or Bozak while sitting comfortably in a playoff position may be, and as much as a GM never wants to send a message that they're lacking in faith heading into the playoffs.... I'm just not convinced it makes all that much sense to hang onto expiring UFAs for what, if we're being honest, is not likely to be a very fruitful playoff run. If you frame the question in terms of how much of a difference will JVR make in a playoff round vs. how much of a difference an additional pick might make long-term, it's a pretty easy decision for me.

I mean, if we didn't have JVR, and did have an extra 1st round pick.... would we trade that pick for JVR to load up for a run at the Bruins/Lightning? I wouldn't. It is undeniably weird to move a player like JVR before the playoffs, but it's also weird that we're 19 points ahead of the next-place team in the division in February.

 

[LeafFever]

I'm so thankful Vegas came into the league. the cap is going up more this year than it has in years. That said, they are not keeping JVR.

 

[Drumdizzle]

On HNIC intermission it was reported teams asked about the availability of JVR and were told he is not available.

So Leafs are keeping him as an own rental and then prepared to walk away at end of season.

Yes because Lou and leafs management put all of their cards on the table for the media to see. Therefore that's set in stone right?

 

[LeafFever]

Yes because Lou and leafs management put all of their cards on the table for the media to see. Therefore that's set in stone right?

Yeah, the media has no idea what the Leafs are doing in general. The only time they've been right is the Andersen rumours.

 

[CerebralDevil]

PLEASE TRADE JVR AND BOZAK!

 

[thewave]

Trade him and Leivo to the Habs for Patches. Habs can then trade him for futures.

Works for me, gives us a good player for next season as well.

I'd prefer to toss them a 3rd over Leivo though. I am clinging on hope that the Leafs just keep Leivo past the deadline and he gets a shot down the stretch. I know its low probability but if he does and establishes better value great.

 

[Drumdizzle]

PLEASE TRADE JVR AND BOZAK!

Care to elaborate?

 

[Mckay]

The team that is tied for 6th best in the league will NOT be selling.... get it through your thick skulls.

 

[thewave]

The team that is tied for 6th best in the league will NOT be selling.... get it through your thick skulls.

Yes they will. They are in a situation where a hockey trade makes absolute sense. Get it through yours.

 

[Mess]

Yes because Lou and leafs management put all of their cards on the table for the media to see. Therefore that's set in stone right?

What if HNIC sources are the other teams that have called Toronto, and they are telling people like Nick Kypreos, Chris Johnston and Elliotte Friedman this?

I have no reason not to believe them as it makes sense that Leafs will use their UFA players as "own rentals".

 

[Mckay]

Yes they will. They are in a situation where a hockey trade makes absolute sense. Get it through yours.

I'm sure you'll eat crow when they don't sell?

I have no problem admitting it if I was wrong(which I won't be)

 

[Drumdizzle]

The team that is tied for 6th best in the league will NOT be selling.... get it through your thick skulls.

Is that a matter of fact? People who talk like this have thick skulls. The irony!

 

[rumman]

Should have traded him in the off-season and then given other guys a long look
Now it's too late, and he'll walk at the end of the year. I hope management doesn't re-sign him - too much $$ and term and guaranteed he'd get a NTC

really surprised he wasn't gone by X-mas, I thought that's why Marleau was acquired, to replace the experience of a outgoing JVR. I still got to believe the smart move is to trade him at or before the deadline however remote the chances are. I HATE to see him walk for nothing, Bozak, not so much, but man, letting asstes walk for nothing drives me nuts.

 

[thewave]

really surprised he wasn't gone by X-mas, I thought that's why Marleau was acquired, to replace the experience of a outgoing JVR. I still got to believe the smart move is to trade him at or before the deadline however remote the chances are. I HATE to see him walk for nothing, Bozak, not so much, but man, letting asstes walk for nothing drives me nuts.

There is an exception to this. If your minors are stacked like TBL and you are one of the top 2 contenders that year, you can afford it. This team just can't afford loses like that yet.

 

[The CyNick]

Are you saying that a 1st round pick (which may never pan out) is more valuable than JVR when it comes playoff time?

You gotta remember that when you discuss this topic with the pro trading JVR camp they think ALL 1st round picks either turn into studs or can be traded for elite D men. And all 2nds will become Duncan Keith. So it's tough to try to use reason with them.

Anyone can be traded if the right offer comes along, but this Management group isn't looking to move big time goal scorers ahead of an expected playoff run. The goal of management is to continue to progress and let this young group have as much success as possible in the playoffs. Trading JVR and replacing him with a 5th line player isn't part of the plan.

They will then present their offer to JVR in the summer with a take it or leave it mentality. If he leaves it, they've got a bunch of cap space to help improve the team for the short term.

 

[The CyNick]

On re-signing: with (approximately) Matthews at $10M, Nylander/Marner at $7M, Rielly and Andersen at $5M, we're not going to have much to spend elsewhere, and a scoring winger is surely the role easiest for us to fill internally, both now and a couple of years down the road when guys like Bracco/Timashov might be knocking at the door.

On trading: I think, if not for playing in the Atlantic, we'd see ourselves as more of a bubble team in transition rather than some solid playoff contender. As difficult a sell as trading a player like JVR or Bozak while sitting comfortably in a playoff position may be, and as much as a GM never wants to send a message that they're lacking in faith heading into the playoffs.... I'm just not convinced it makes all that much sense to hang onto expiring UFAs for what, if we're being honest, is not likely to be a very fruitful playoff run. If you frame the question in terms of how much of a difference will JVR make in a playoff round vs. how much of a difference an additional pick might make long-term, it's a pretty easy decision for me.

I mean, if we didn't have JVR, and did have an extra 1st round pick.... would we trade that pick for JVR to load up for a run at the Bruins/Lightning? I wouldn't. It is undeniably weird to move a player like JVR before the playoffs, but it's also weird that we're 19 points ahead of the next-place team in the division in February.

Draft day deal in 2017 indicates JVR is worth less than two 2nds. That's the only real insight we have on his value. It's possible a couple top end teams bid each other up and we end up with a 25-31 pick in the first round. Assuming that's his value, look at the success of 1st round picks past say 20 and you'll see the odds of getting back someone who has JVRs impact is very low. And then there's the issue that even if that player did pan out, he wouldn't contribute for several years. But I know, just trade him for D help...

 

[LeafFever]

There is an exception to this. If your minors are stacked like TBL and you are one of the top 2 contenders that year, you can afford it. This team just can't afford loses like that yet.

What playoff team trades someone like JVR though? No one. Nash and Kane will be moved because their teams are tanking.
And the Leafs are absolutely stacked on the wing. They can withstand a JVR loss.

 

[thewave]

Draft day deal in 2017 indicates JVR is worth less than two 2nds. That's the only real insight we have on his value. It's possible a couple top end teams bid each other up and we end up with a 25-31 pick in the first round. Assuming that's his value, look at the success of 1st round picks past say 20 and you'll see the odds of getting back someone who has JVRs impact is very low. And then there's the issue that even if that player did pan out, he wouldn't contribute for several years. But I know, just trade him for D help...

Logical fallacy. He was worth less than 2x 2nds to 1 team @ that point in time.

 

[ToneDog]

Yes they will. They are in a situation where a hockey trade makes absolute sense. Get it through yours.

Making hockey trades is not selling. Selling is trading UFAs for futures. Buying is trading for rentals. Much better chance we are buying rentals or players that can strengthen the team.

 

[LeafFever]

Draft day deal in 2017 indicates JVR is worth less than two 2nds. That's the only real insight we have on his value. It's possible a couple top end teams bid each other up and we end up with a 25-31 pick in the first round. Assuming that's his value, look at the success of 1st round picks past say 20 and you'll see the odds of getting back someone who has JVRs impact is very low. And then there's the issue that even if that player did pan out, he wouldn't contribute for several years. But I know, just trade him for D help...

Then we hear Kane and Nash will cost a first, 2nd pick and a top prospect with a third of the season left as UFAs..

 

[thewave]

What playoff team trades someone like JVR though? No one. Nash and Kane will be moved because their teams are tanking.
And the Leafs are absolutely stacked on the wing. They can withstand a JVR loss.

I have always promoted a hockey trade. Because 3 way deals are like Unicorns I just lay it out like this...

Trade JVR for 1st and 2nd
Trade 1st and 2nd for Player we need more going into the PO.

 

[Drumdizzle]

You gotta remember that when you discuss this topic with the pro trading JVR camp they think ALL 1st round picks either turn into studs or can be traded for elite D men. And all 2nds will become Duncan Keith. So it's tough to try to use reason with them.

Anyone can be traded if the right offer comes along, but this Management group isn't looking to move big time goal scorers ahead of an expected playoff run. The goal of management is to continue to progress and let this young group have as much success as possible in the playoffs. Trading JVR and replacing him with a 5th line player isn't part of the plan.

They will then present their offer to JVR in the summer with a take it or leave it mentality. If he leaves it, they've got a bunch of cap space to help improve the team for the short term.

Not once do I suggest that 1st or 2nd rnd picks are guaranteed anything. Nor does anyone suggest replacing him with a 5th line player. Is Kapanen a 5th line player? And when they present their offer to JVR with a take it or leave it mentality what do you think that means? It means he's going to leave and make much more money elsewhere. Look, if you want to go all in or nothing with JVR and his value this season than that's okay, I see your argument. But to not be open to scenarios that make this team better long term and to suggest that supporters of trading JVR are tough to reason with? Get real man. You seem much more closed minded than I do. People who think it's matter of fact either way are the ones who are tough to reason with.