JVR questions

[Al14]

I get what you're saying. I feel like Leivo hadn't been given a fair shake. If they move JVR I could see Kapanen moving up and Sosh replacing him on the 4th line.

Leivo had to show better than at least one of our current roster players, and, he also had to look better than some of our prospects on the Marlies. He failed to show this no matter how short of a stint he got!

Then, he had the gall to ask for a trade. Bye Josh!

 

[rent free]

Can you be more specific? What in your eyes helps in the near future?

1st round draft pick, 2nd round draft pick, an NHL ready guy stuck in the ahl, a player who can play but doesn't get enough ice time etc

 

[Crosscrease14]

I would be okay with a late first and a good prospect (preferably C or D). Or even late 1st, lesser prospect and a 3rd or so.

If we keep him we make the playoffs and play a round or two. If we trade him we still make the playoffs and play a round or two .

Unless he's resigning at a decent cap hit and term, trade him.

 

[mapleleaf979]

JVR would command a 1st round pick and more. The 1st on its own, is more valuable than having him for the playoffs. Kapanen is not a 4th liner. Freddy was acquired with a first round pick they acquired in a trade. The assets for JVR i.e. a first can be used to fill holes. The Maple Leafs do not need JVR to make a run in the playoffs!! I hope the media is wrong with any info they have.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I’d try and re-sign him to a max year back diving deal and pay the assets to move him later on (or compliance buyout) vs rolling the dice on lottery tickets we get in return for his production & worsening the team now. Do something like 8 years 39 paid out like this: 6m x 5 years 3m x 3 years. 5m bonus July 1 year 5, 2m bonus paid out July 1 year 6. If his cap of 4.875 becomes an issue at that point you pay the piper to ship him off somewhere else. In the meantime you enjoy a guy who creates havoc in front for the goalie and is a essential lock for 25-25 for the next 5 seasons.

 

[shortfuze]

JVR would command a 1st round pick and more. The 1st on its own, is more valuable than having him for the playoffs. Kapanen is not a 4th liner. Freddy was acquired with a first round pick they acquired in a trade. The assets for JVR i.e. a first can be used to fill holes. The Maple Leafs do not need JVR to make a run in the playoffs!! I hope the media is wrong with any info they have.

Are you saying that a 1st round pick (which may never pan out) is more valuable than JVR when it comes playoff time?

 

[Confucius]

Id keep JVR as our own rental. There would be zero chance of me trading him to some team in the east. If we should make it to at least the eastern final, I'd try and sign him to a 6 year extension, because it would mean we are good enough as we are to have a legit chance at winning a Cup.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

creating holes in the lineup and making yourself worse makes no sense to me, you can move Komarov because you have Kapenan yo replace him and Kap appears to be better.

But who replaces JVR, tell me that because to me that guy doesn't exist, and if you say Leivo I am going to laugh in your face because that is ridiculous ,Leivo can't even break the 4th line, a 4th line that has Komarov on it, he is not replacing JVR.

Unless you can get the D man you need for him, and you can't because JVR is a rental all you'll get is picks you keep JVR.

 

[ToneDog]

Trade him and Leivo to the Habs for Patches. Habs can then trade him for futures.

 

[Drumdizzle]

creating holes in the lineup and making yourself worse makes no sense to me, you can move Komarov because you have Kapenan yo replace him and Kap appears to be better.

But who replaces JVR, tell me that because to me that guy doesn't exist, and if you say Leivo I am going to laugh in your face because that is ridiculous ,Leivo can't even break the 4th line, a 4th line that has Komarov on it, he is not replacing JVR.

Unless you can get the D man you need for him, and you can't because JVR is a rental all you'll get is picks you keep JVR.

As I said earlier I understand wanting to keep JVR. There is no replacing his scoring and net presence. You say it makes no sense to you but do you not have to think about the future? Let's say IF the leafs lost in the 1st round or even 2nd for that matter. JVR doesn't sign with Toronto which is very likely and its draft day. Do you not regret acquiring a couple of picks for said expiring player? You're sitting at the draft table and a there's still high level prospects available where you could have made a selection but didn't pull the trigger on a deal for someone who is no longer with the team? What's ridiculous is not at least considering your asset management. A first pick, a 2nd or 3rd and a good prospect could really put some potential pieces into the leafs system for a long time. Not just potentially for the rest of this year. Like I said earlier I don't move JVR unless offered something significant in which case I most certainly do. Leafs are in for the long run.

 

[Drumdizzle]

Id keep JVR as our own rental. There would be zero chance of me trading him to some team in the east. If we should make it to at least the eastern final, I'd try and sign him to a 6 year extension, because it would mean we are good enough as we are to have a legit chance at winning a Cup.

In a perfect world Leafs keep JVR and win the cup this year which isn't impossible. And then JVR signs at a discount for the hometown team to make room for everyone else. That would be great. Is that likely? Or does he sign elsewhere next season and the leafs don't get any assets for him? I'll admit I'm optimistic about this team and I do believe that come playoff time the Leafs can make some noise.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Want 1st+2nd or more, would be fine with a minimum of a 1st.

Just dumb not to play Leivo in his spot and if Leivo fails then give the 2nd highest AHL goal scorer Johnsson the spot, while getting another Dermott/Liljegren in draft or trade it with our picks for Tanev

What's dumb is slotting Leivo in JVRs spot now and selling JVR for just a late 1st. That's dumb. If we get an offer we cannot refuse (Fabbro + 1st, Ekholm, etc) then yah we move him. But otherwise just sell what you can that won't affect the team and prepare for the playoffs. Wingers his age go to free agency every year.

 

[Drumdizzle]

I’d try and re-sign him to a max year back diving deal and pay the assets to move him later on (or compliance buyout) vs rolling the dice on lottery tickets we get in return for his production & worsening the team now. Do something like 8 years 39 paid out like this: 6m x 5 years 3m x 3 years. 5m bonus July 1 year 5, 2m bonus paid out July 1 year 6. If his cap of 4.875 becomes an issue at that point you pay the piper to ship him off somewhere else. In the meantime you enjoy a guy who creates havoc in front for the goalie and is a essential lock for 25-25 for the next 5 seasons.

It's nice to dream but I highly doubt leafs management would sign him for 8 yrs. He's also not likely going to sign anywhere for less than 6.5 per.

 

[ToneDog]

As I said earlier I understand wanting to keep JVR. There is no replacing his scoring and net presence. You say it makes no sense to you but do you not have to think about the future? Let's say IF the leafs lost in the 1st round or even 2nd for that matter. JVR doesn't sign with Toronto which is very likely and its draft day. Do you not regret acquiring a couple of picks for said expiring player? You're sitting at the draft table and a there's still high level prospects available where you could have made a selection but didn't pull the trigger on a deal for someone who is no longer with the team? What's ridiculous is not at least considering your asset management. A first pick, a 2nd or 3rd and a good prospect could really put some potential pieces into the leafs system for a long time. Not just potentially for the rest of this year. Like I said earlier I don't move JVR unless offered something significant in which case I most certainly do. Leafs are in for the long run.

This. The supply of LWers is greater than the demand and as such Leafs might have to sell below market value but probably would not. E Kane would be a perfect power forward that would look good in JVR's place but Sabres are asking too much for him. We could do JVR + Leivo + Sosh and they could flip JVR to get the first they are looking for.

 

[Drumdizzle]

It seems as if leafs nation is torn on this. Half want JVR to stay as an own rental for the playoffs or are optimistic about being able to resign him. And the other half want to get assets for him and not risk losing him for nothing. It's tough, and an interesting debate. Personally, if were offered a 1st, 2nd or 3rd and a good prospect I pull the trigger. Squire some good assets to stock the cupboard. Let Mark Hunter and his staff work some magic at the draft table. And grow those pieces with one of the best development programs in the league. If we're not offered high end picks and a good prospect than I keep JVR for the playoff run and hope for the best. This team is capable of magic! Either way I couldn't be more excited to see how everything unfolds. Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Like I said earlier I don't move JVR unless offered something significant in which case I most certainly do. Leafs are in for the long run.

This. I think the whole debate about being sellers or buyers is overly simplistic. The spot we are in and the chance we have this season just means that the value of keeping JVR around is much higher than it would be otherwise. Therefor it would take that much more of a return to beat that value.

There's only two positions a team can be in where it's not about relative value. A full tear down, or all in consequences be damned. We are not close to neither.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

As I said earlier I understand wanting to keep JVR. There is no replacing his scoring and net presence. You say it makes no sense to you but do you not have to think about the future? Let's say IF the leafs lost in the 1st round or even 2nd for that matter. JVR doesn't sign with Toronto which is very likely and its draft day. Do you not regret acquiring a couple of picks for said expiring player? You're sitting at the draft table and a there's still high level prospects available where you could have made a selection but didn't pull the trigger on a deal for someone who is no longer with the team? What's ridiculous is not at least considering your asset management. A first pick, a 2nd or 3rd and a good prospect could really put some potential pieces into the leafs system for a long time. Not just potentially for the rest of this year. Like I said earlier I don't move JVR unless offered something significant in which case I most certainly do. Leafs are in for the long run.

Here is the thing about the Leafs future, I am not worried about it and lets lock at why

Matthews is 20
Marner is 20
Nylander is 21
Kapenan is 21
Dermott 21
Rielly is 23
Brown 23
Hyman is 25
Zaitsev is 25
Gardiner is 26
Kadri is 27
Andersen is 28

That is 12 players 28 or younger, 9 are 25 or younger, 7 are 23 or younger and 5 are 21 or younger, that number grows if we include guys like Borgman and Carrick who would make it 14 players 28 or younger and 9 23 or younger.

also not included in that are prospects like last years 1st rounder Timothy Liljergen who is 18 and already in the AHL and played for team Sweden at the WJHC he looks good.

Nor does it include the 1st round pick and the 2 2nd round picks the team currently has in this upcoming draft, once Sosh and/or Leivo get traded because one of them is going soon because the Leafs have to move somebody we will likely be able to add another draft pick or 2 depending on if 1 or both guy to the cupboard.

So you ask me about the future, I am not concerned, this team is loaded for the future, I didn't even get into the likes of Bracco and Andreas Johnsson.

The teams present and future is fine, in fact it couldn't look better both in terms of the pro team and the draft pick situation.

I don't think we need more futures right now, I think we need a d man and I think the team has put itself in a position where they can afford to take a couple of future cans off the shelves to address that need without killing the prospect pool.

If that doesn't happen, well as I said you have a 1st and 2 2nds in this draft, use them and build up your prospect pool even stronger than it is giving you more ammo to trade for when you do feel like you are a piece away.

Personally I feel like they are close to that point now, if you added say, Ryan Mcdonagh to this lineup you'd be pretty much set.

But no the team is so well stocked for the future that losing JVR wouldn't bother me, I feel like we are getting beyond the point where futures is or should be the focus, this team is good, VERY VERY good

 

[Drumdizzle]

What's dumb is slotting Leivo in JVRs spot now and selling JVR for just a late 1st. That's dumb. If we get an offer we cannot refuse (Fabbro + 1st, Ekholm, etc) then yah we move him. But otherwise just sell what you can that won't affect the team and prepare for the playoffs. Wingers his age go to free agency every year.

Fabbro + 1st AND Ekholm?! Okay I'm down lol. I have a hard time believing that NSH offers Fabbro and a 1st alone. I'd consider accepting Fabbro and a 2nd tbh.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Should have traded him in the off-season and then given other guys a long look
Now it's too late, and he'll walk at the end of the year. I hope management doesn't re-sign him - too much $$ and term and guaranteed he'd get a NTC

 

[Drumdizzle]

Here is the thing about the Leafs future, I am not worried about it and lets lock at why

Matthews is 20
Marner is 20
Nylander is 21
Kapenan is 21
Dermott 21
Rielly is 23
Brown 23
Hyman is 25
Zaitsev is 25
Gardiner is 26
Kadri is 27
Andersen is 28

That is 12 players 28 or younger, 9 are 25 or younger, 7 are 23 or younger and 5 are 21 or younger, that number grows if we include guys like Borgman and Carrick who would make it 14 players 28 or younger and 9 23 or younger.

also not included in that are prospects like last years 1st rounder Timothy Liljergen who is 18 and already in the AHL and played for team Sweden at the WJHC he looks good.

Nor does it include the 1st round pick and the 2 2nd round picks the team currently has in this upcoming draft, once Sosh and/or Leivo get traded because one of them is going soon because the Leafs have to move somebody we will likely be able to add another draft pick or 2 depending on if 1 or both guy to the cupboard.

So you ask me about the future, I am not concerned, this team is loaded for the future, I didn't even get into the likes of Bracco and Andreas Johnsson.

The teams present and future is fine, in fact it couldn't look better both in terms of the pro team and the draft pick situation.

I don't think we need more futures right now, I think we need a d man and I think the team has put itself in a position where they can afford to take a couple of future cans off the shelves to address that need without killing the prospect pool.

If that doesn't happen, well as I said you have a 1st and 2 2nds in this draft, use them and build up your prospect pool even stronger than it is giving you more ammo to trade for when you do feel like you are a piece away.

Personally I feel like they are close to that point now, if you added say, Ryan Mcdonagh to this lineup you'd be pretty much set.

But no the team is so well stocked for the future that losing JVR wouldn't bother me, I feel like we are getting beyond the point where futures is or should be the focus, this team is good, VERY VERY good

I'm fully aware that the Leafs have a strong number of solid young players and that we have most of our picks I don't think anyone is debating that. But adding to our deep pool of prospects and picks would be VERY VERY good. You can never have too many it increases your chances of hitting the jackpot right? And you think we need a dman and I'd have to agree with you but Ryan Mcdonagh?! I'm not saying that he's terrible but I really don't like the idea of bringing in a left handed veteren defensemen and at what cost? If we trade for picks/prospects we could potentially move some of those for a better and maybe younger right handed defensemen.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I don't think the Leafs management has an interest in resigning JVR. Cap space is going spent in other places. Johnson, Kapanen and heck maybe even Leivo will have step in next year with departures of JVR and Komarov.

All other playoff teams want strengthen their team, but somehow some Leafs fans want to weaken their team with the trading of JVR and Bozak for futures which might not ever help ever.

 

[Macallan18]

I highly doubt they're going to re-sign him.

If they were interested, why not start talks now?

Well, it may depend on what salary they can clear out.
What is Martin making, 2 or 2.5 a year? that is a start.
Kommy, as well, will be gone.
Bozzie, gone one way or another.
How much will the cap go up?
Is there a RHD we trade for?
It is an intricate puzzle, too early to tell.

 

[Drumdizzle]

I don't think the Leafs management has an interest in resigning JVR. Cap space is going spent in other places. Johnson, Kapanen and heck maybe even Leivo will have step in next year with departures of JVR and Komarov.

All other playoff teams want strengthen their team, but somehow some Leafs fans want to weaken their team with the trading of JVR and Bozak for futures which might not ever help ever.

The Leafs would be weakening the team this year yes, but strengthening the team for years to come. Sure, maybe they get futures that might not ever help out ever. Or maybe they get futures who turn into gems. They do have one of the best development programs in the league. And who knows maybe they make a deal for a defensemen. It wouldn't be crazy if the leafs were to trade JVR to a contender for picks/prospects and then trade some pieces to a seller for a stud rhd defensemen. Could you imagine that!? If the leafs could turn An expiring player that you likely don't resign into a young stud defensemen who is around longer term? Oh the possibilities!

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

The Leafs would be weakening the team this year yes, but strengthening the team for years to come. Sure, maybe they get futures that might not ever help out ever. Or maybe they get futures who turn into gems. They do have one of the best development programs in the league. And who knows maybe they make a deal for a defensemen. It wouldn't be crazy if the leafs were to trade JVR to a contender for picks/prospects and then trade some pieces to a seller for a stud rhd defensemen. Could you imagine that!? If the leafs could turn An expiring player that you likely don't resign into a young stud defensemen who is around longer term? Oh the possibilities!

I do agree with your scenario. Trading Bozak, JVR for immediate help would be OK, just not for futures.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm fully aware that the Leafs have a strong number of solid young players and that we have most of our picks I don't think anyone is debating that. But adding to our deep pool of prospects and picks would be VERY VERY good. You can never have too many it increases your chances of hitting the jackpot right? And you think we need a dman and I'd have to agree with you but Ryan Mcdonagh?! I'm not saying that he's terrible but I really don't like the idea of bringing in a left handed veteren defensemen and at what cost? If we trade for picks/prospects we could potentially move some of those for a better and maybe younger right handed defensemen.

Personally I don't care if he's left handed or right handed, does he make the team better? If the answer is yes, and it is you look into it