Just how good is Matt Murray in the playoffs?

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

Show me a team that wouldn't take Murray on them as a starting goalie. I'm waiting.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

It's hard to say. He's certainly proven himself to be a goalie you can win a Cup with, which is really all you need. But he hasn't needed to show any more than that, like being able to steal a round by himself. He has such a talented, experienced and composed team around him that it's hard to gauge his individual ability. If you were to switch him and the Flyers' goalie, you'd get a better sense of what he can do as an individual.

They are composed because their goalie's composure gives them the confidence to do what they need to do. Murray's got their back!

as much as I love watching Murry play it is absolutely ridiculous to compare him to Roy, and I hate Roy as a person. Roy has over 200 more playoff games played so of course his averages are lower, Murry has played on the best team in the league for less than two complete playoff runs, his stats will go down when the Penguins start to decline. I think it is a disservice to rank a player after two year to an all time great.

Yet everybody compares McDavid to Crosby. Murray has 2 cups years before Roy did.

Murray is methodical and controlled in his approach and play, which makes him a great goalie. Maybe we are being premature, but man when you win 2 cups back to back in the new NHL, you have to give props.

So it's not quite as simple as saying that teams passed on Jagr and the Pens were there to scoop him up. Jagr was peddling around to the teams in the league that he was not coming over to play for them if they drafted him. He specifically wanted to play for the Pens and in a roundabout way said he would only come over to NA if they were the team that drafted him, because he idolized Mario Lemieux.

I'm not going sour grapes as a Flyers fan but let's call a spade a spade. The Mario luck brought the team the Jagr luck. They are not unrelated and teams didn't pass on Jags for no reason.

Absolutely false!

Teams were afraid they couldn't get Jagr out of communist Czech Republic. Nobody used to draft eastern European players at the time. Penguins took the chance with some research about ways to get him out and they succeeded.

 

[cvrle1]

Absolutely false!

Teams were afraid they couldn't get Jagr out of communist Czech Republic. Nobody used to draft eastern European players at the time. Penguins took the chance with some research about ways to get him out and they succeeded.

Both were actually true. Jags even himself said few times that he may have dropped those types of hints to other 4 GMs that were drafting before Pens did. While he didnt flat out say dont draft me, wont play for you, he was steering GMs that way at least a little bit. But you are right, there was also whole issue of GMs not being sure what would happen with Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic wasnt formed till 1993)

 

[Ogrezilla]

Holy crap do I have a love for this kid that is borderline unseemly.

arrogant

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So it's not quite as simple as saying that teams passed on Jagr and the Pens were there to scoop him up. Jagr was peddling around to the teams in the league that he was not coming over to play for them if they drafted him. He specifically wanted to play for the Pens and in a roundabout way said he would only come over to NA if they were the team that drafted him, because he idolized Mario Lemieux.

I'm not going sour grapes as a Flyers fan but let's call a spade a spade. The Mario luck brought the team the Jagr luck. They are not unrelated and teams didn't pass on Jags for no reason.

Right, and buying a "fake" game played, netted another team an explosive 60 goal scorer, but let's not nitpick.

It's funny a NJ fan is saying that, I know it was the Devils or the Pens that were trying to be the worst teams in 1984. They won the Kirk Muller sweepstakes, we got Mario.

You should let it go.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

arrogant

Everyone - "Players are so boring."
A player that is good and believes in his abilities talking about just that - "Omg, so arrogant."

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Matt Murray has ice water in his veins. Wouldn't trade him for any goalie in the league. Career playoff GAA down to 1.88 now.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Penguins fans spent half a decade blaming Bylsma for every playoff loss and ignoring Fleury's repeated meltdowns, then they replace Fleury with a guy who can play above-average in the playoffs and immediately win two rings

Sullivan also came with it, along with Kessel.

 

[Fatty McLardy]

Murray > "10 million dollar" overrated Price in the playoffs...

 

[beir32]

What are his numbers like this series if him and Elliott were on opposite teams?

What would his numbers be like if he had only one arm?
What would his numbers be like if instead of a glove he instead had a banjo?
What would his numbers be like if he had feet for hands and hands for feet?
What would his numbers be like if he were playing wearing baseball spikes instead of skates?

Since he hasn't had to endure any of these hardships, I'm gonna imply that he's not that impressive.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

The only goaltender who gives Murray a run for his money right now is Vasilevskiy

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

The original point i made is that the series would still be 3-1 if the goalies switched teams, because of the offense. Murray's been good but he hasnt had the opportunity to be a difference maker yet.

He’s had plenty of other opportunities to be a difference maker, like games 5 and 6 of the Finals last year.

 

[Pengwins]

The only goaltender who gives Murray a run for his money right now is Vasilevskiy

M Jones is pretty clutch in the playoffs too

 

[Thenameless]

23 years old

-2 Stanley Cups #1 All Time in win percentage, 2 for 2
-25-10 playoff record #1 All Time win percentage
-1.88 Goals Against #2 All Time for players born after the year 1910
-93% save percentage #3 All Time
-6 Shutouts #24 All time
-Undefeated in playoff series- #1 All Time

-For all the praise of the big 3 or 4 of the Penguins, this guy doesnt get the hype he's earned. For all the hype of Patrick Roy, this guy is beating him in all statistics in the playoffs. Playoff Brick Wall

He's awesome in the playoffs. As much as I like MAF, a big part of why they've won the last two years is because of Murray's play (though Fleury did play well for them in last year's playoffs). He doesn't have to carry his team like Roy did in Montreal though.

 

[TeeTee]

Alright.

7-0
1-5
5-1
5-0

You don't need a crystal ball to see that it's offense winning games, not goaltending.

I think you need a crystal ball to see the flaw in your argument.

 

[Frank Drebin]

He’s had plenty of other opportunities to be a difference maker, like games 5 and 6 of the Finals last year.

Certainly!

 

[Thenameless]

He's PIT's most valuable player by a mile....Let that sink in. He has a career .930SV% in the playoffs in 36 games. Price has a .914

It's still Crosby and Malkin. Those two are everything. I can only dream of Crosby, Malkin, and Price in Montreal.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Penguins fans spent half a decade blaming Bylsma for every playoff loss and ignoring Fleury's repeated meltdowns, then they replace Fleury with a guy who can play above-average in the playoffs and immediately win two rings

Sever over simplifications with some subtle shade in there. Nice.

Let me break it down for you, since you clearly don't know what was the difference .

1. Bylsma was arrogant, felt his system was the best system and line matching was ridiculous to do.
2. At times, he let his own ego be his biggest problem, in the Isles series, he sat speedy wingers to play "his guys" and that almost had the Pens lose that series. He later let his ego win the rest of the way to a boston sweep, or maybe that was another year, feels like it was all 1 massively long disappointing year to me.
3. He was terrible with handling goalies.
4. He was terrible with handling a lot of young players. He was a hypocrite. Several young players alluded to it and some even flat out spoke out against it. His treatment of Despres was one of the biggest things that stood out to many of us.
5. The team was rarely, if ever, composed. If you baited the Penguins, you won. Simple as that.

Now let's look at when Sullivan was brought over...

1. He changed the system, wanted to play a more up tempo style, JR saw that and started to make trades to accomodate that style. Imagine that, coach says I want to play with speed, GM goes, I got you bro...here's the man with the sickest flow in the game with the fastest skates, Carl Hagelin, etc.
2. Sullivan brought "his guys" which were - Sheary and Murray for the most part.
3. Sully had his draw backs, he had his guys that we didn't like, namely Porter. f*** you Porter, you suck Porter.
4. His goalie was better than "above average" - Murray was elite in his rookie year (well the 1st of his 2 rookie years).
4b. His goalie isn't just above average in the playoffs, he's f***ing elite. Have the respect to admit that. Matt Murray is an elite playoff goalie .
5. Fleury was actually having a fantastic season while no one else was under MJ, people tend to forget that his numbers were nuts that year, then he had 2 concussions and Murray took the baton and ran with it all the way to the finish line.
6. Fleury struggled as a back-up, but I think it was more to do with the concussion messing with his timing and his game, also the lack of games messed with his routine, playoffs started, we don't get that 2nd cup without him.

But the biggest thing was that the team united on all 3 fronts.

The GM trusted Mike Sullivan and his style and vision.
The Coach trusted the players and the players had to trust that Sullivan was going to do the yelling at the refs and handle that side of things for them.
The players had to buy into the system and trust it.

Not just "Well shit,they got an above average goalie!"

Nah...

The "culture shift" started the moment James Neal was packing for Nashville and Patric Hornqvist was headed to us. The Pens were going to now wreak havoc everywhere in the offensive zone (it's too bad MJ was a moron but also glad he was), then it was the Kessel trade that put a huge stamp on the team with a lot of younger guys emerging.

Brian Dumoulin became a regular.
Olli Maatta emerged after countless set backs with health and injuries.
Jake Guentzel literally exploded onto the scene with his production in the playoffs and the season.
HBK was a thing.

Etc..

It wasn't just 1 thing.

And if you mention that 1 thing, you better damn well understand that the 1 thing isn't some "above average" thing. IT's f***ing ELITE.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's still Crosby and Malkin. Those two are everything. I can only dream of Crosby, Malkin, and Price in Montreal.

No, it's our depth.

It's always been our depth. It's never been just Sid and Geno. That was what Shero didn't understand.

It's what JR did. It's why the Pens are where they are, today.

It's what Edmonton will never understand and the teams that tank for talent, don't understand. It's what Montreal has never understood after 1993.

 

[Thenameless]

No, it's our depth.

It's always been our depth. It's never been just Sid and Geno. That was what Shero didn't understand.

It's what JR did. It's why the Pens are where they are, today.

It's what Edmonton will never understand and the teams that tank for talent, don't understand. It's what Montreal has never understood after 1993.

I agree with you. It takes a team to win. But gimme Crosby, Malkin, and Price and I'll make depth damnit.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

M Jones is pretty clutch in the playoffs too

You’re right, I honestly didn’t watched much of the West series though

 

[Frank Drebin]

No, it's our depth.

It's always been our depth. It's never been just Sid and Geno. That was what Shero didn't understand.

It's what JR did. It's why the Pens are where they are, today.

It's what Edmonton will never understand and the teams that tank for talent, don't understand. It's what Montreal has never understood after 1993.

You just need to surround the two best players in the world with depth. Only JR understands that. That's why he built such a powerhouse in Carolina. He understood depth.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I agree with you. It takes a team to win. But gimme Crosby, Malkin, and Price and I'll make depth damnit.

A good gm can acquire or build depth. Look at poile. You can't build our acquire generational talent

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You just need to surround the two best players in the world with depth. Only JR understands that. That's why he built such a powerhouse in Carolina. He understood depth.

Yeah, because you knew 100% of that situation and behind the scenes.

 

[NJGoalie]

Right, and buying a "fake" game played, netted another team an explosive 60 goal scorer, but let's not nitpick.

It's funny a NJ fan is saying that, I know it was the Devils or the Pens that were trying to be the worst teams in 1984. They won the Kirk Muller sweepstakes, we got Mario.

You should let it go.

I'm a Flyers fan, not a NJ fan. There's nothing to let go. I'm not complaining I was just setting the record straight. The guy said teams passed on Jagr when that wasn't the case. Jagr wasn't going to defect if anyone else picked him and he set it up so he could play with Mario.