Jonesey's Open Letter To Katz

[GSC]

Laforge actually said that if they don't get a new building they would look at moving the team.

I am all for a new arena downtown, and am even onside with the city financing the thing at an attractive rate to Rexall Sports. (Financing it, not giving away $$$, if Rexall wants all the revenues, then they need to foot the bill, maybe you work in future taxes against the financing as it happens, but no $$ give aways please)

Why I am not onside with is Laforge saying they will move the team if they don't get a pile of no strings attached money.

The Oilers rank 18th in the league in average attendance per game due to the small building, but they rank in the top 10 in terms of revenue per game. So we pay way more than average for our tickets.

We pay way more than average for a seriously below average team.

4 years out of the playoffs and there is still a waiting list for season tickets.

All of that support and he threatens to move the team.

Inexcusable.

Go ahead and move Pat and take your organization of losers with you.

We will get real hockey people and a real hockey team in here so fast it will make your head spin.

LaForge is a d*ckhead.

That's about all I have to say about him.

 

[Red Deer Rebel]

Why I am not onside with is Laforge saying they will move the team if they don't get a pile of no strings attached money.

Could you produce a quote where he says this?

What I recall him saying is that the Oilers wanted to control all revenues in the building like other NHL teams do.

I look forward to your link.

 

[SlowFreshOil*]

Laforge actually said that if they don't get a new building they would look at moving the team.

I'm sorry, but I've listened to EVERY Laforge interview and he's said nothing of the sort.

Unless there's an article of interview I'm unaware of, please provide where and when this was said.

 

[I am the Liquor]

It was an interview on Global about the possibility of building a new arena (they did a series). He made a statement about the necessity of a new building to ensure that the team does not move. He is a grade A d-bag and Woodguy's take is right on the money.

 

[dashingsilverfox*]

It wasn't LaForge it was Nichols:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/spor...lers+future+downtown+arena/2335912/story.html

 

[HFPM]

It was an interview on Global about the possibility of building a new arena (they did a series). He made a statement about the necessity of a new building to ensure that the team does not move. He is a grade A d-bag and Woodguy's take is right on the money.

If's he talking about moving the team, it's just semantics. He's not a moron.

 

[I am the Liquor]

It wasn't LaForge it was Nichols:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/spor...lers+future+downtown+arena/2335912/story.html

Laforge said what I said he did in the Global piece.

 

[I am the Liquor]

If's he talking about moving the team, it's just semantics. He's not a moron.

He is a moron. Everytime he opens his mouth he removes all doubt.

 

[HFPM]

He is a moron. Everytime he opens his mouth he removes all doubt.

There's obviously a reason he's got a cushy job and you don't. And it's more than just the people he knows.

 

[I am the Liquor]

There's obviously a reason he's got a cushy job and you don't. And it's more than just the people he knows.

George Bush was the President of the most powerful nation in the world for two terms. Being a moron doesnt make you immune to having well healed jobs. Maybe instead of your childish remarks and veiled insults you could provide evidence to the contrary?

 

[HFPM]

George Bush was the President of the most powerful nation in the world for two terms. Being a moron doesnt make you immune to having well healed jobs. Maybe instead of your childish remarks and veiled insults you could provide evidence to the contrary?

Presumptuous this morning, aren't we? Every discussion has to turn into snowball fight it seems. Nowhere in my two posts did I include anything childish, and I definitely did not try to slag you with my last remark.

George Bush has an IQ of 125 (which is above average) and graduated from both Harvard and Yale (something 99% of us armchair fans can't claim, let alone 95% of the human population). It's amusing how someone a slight step down in intelligence from most political figures can be labeled as one one of the least intelligent people of this decade.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Presumptuous this morning, aren't we? Every discussion has to turn into snowball fight it seems. Nowhere in my two posts did I include anything childish, and I definitely did not try to slag you with my last remark.

George Bush has an IQ of 125 (which is above average) and graduated from both Harvard and Yale (something 99% of us armchair fans can't claim, let alone 95% of the human population). It's amusing how someone a slight step down in intelligence from most political figures can be labeled as one one of the least intelligent people of this decade.

Still waiting for the case for Laforge to be made. Bush's record speaks for itself. Anyone that continues to read to school children after he has been informed that his country is under an unprecedented terrorist attack is a moron.

 

[Real_Estate-Agent]

Daryl Katz bought the Oilers on July 2, 2008...

* July 3, 2008: Calgary Flames sign Curtis Glencross to a three-year $3.2M deal after the Oilers were unable to fit him in their financial plan.

* July 16, 2008: Signs Shawn Horcoff to a six-year, $33M contract extension.

Not sure if you noticed but Katz / Lowe let Glencross walk & signed Horcoff instead. For that additional $4 million per season, Horcoff is behind GlenX in goals, assists, +/- (by a massive margin) this year...

As others have posted, for Katz to show accountability, Lowe must be fired....

There was not one hockey mind in the world that would of signed GlenX over Horcoff that summer and it hardly has anything to do with Katz.

Basically you want him to tell the future and know whether or not a player is going to get hurt you also want him to not bother trying to sign highend players even though thats the Oilers biggest issue for the last four years.

All contracts affect the roster in a salary cap world - any GM / owner either understands that or is too incompetent to run a hockey team.

GlenX was healthy... When he came here the Oilers immediately went on a winning streak - his line mates elevated their game to a level they had never reached & have not reached since...

You may try to spin my position as signing either Horcoff or Glencross (with nothing else involved) but that is 100% misleading.

The question is which player had a higher per dollar value - which player could exceed their paycheck?


Horcoff who just had shoulder surgery at $5.4 million per season or Glencross at $1.5 million per season? The answer is obvious who knows anything about hockey.

Horcoff hit a peak of 22 goals only once; he had 21 goals (51 games) in 2007 - 08 prior to suffering a season ending injury... Before stepping on the ice again to prove he could continue playing at the same level - Horcoff got his "hit the jackpot" contract...

It wasn't just the points - think deterrence - Horcoff had an average of about one hit every three games (and still does); Glencross averaged more than one hit per game (and still does).

When Horcoff got injured, the Oilers were in 13th place in the Western Conference with a 23 - 26 - 5 record... Horcoff definitely was not leading the team to the promised land...

GlenX came over - he played 28 games for the Oilers - they won 16 of those games...

The question is not as stupid as you pretend it is - it is not whether the Oilers should have signed GlenX over Horcoff. The question is whether Lowe & Katz recognized that GlenX was worth a $1.5 million contract & would probably exceed his paycheck.


Both Lowe & Katz made a conscious decision to sign an injured Horcoff to a long term contract & they chose to invest Glencross's paycheck elsewhere.

And we know that (& their failure to understand a salary cap) because Katz was busy talking to Hossa - offering him a $9 million per season (nine year contract)......

It is Katz's incompetent meddling that has made the Oilers the worst in the NHL.....


And of course, the continued stupidity of signing injury ridden players to high priced long term contracts....

* July 1, 2009: Signs injury ridden Nikolai Khabibulin to a four-year, $15M contract.

27-May-09 Missed 2 playoff games (lower body injury).
24-May-09 Lower body injury, day-to-day.
11-Mar-09 Missed 12 games (lower body injury).
12-Feb-09 Lower body injury, day-to-day.
12-Dec-08 Missed 6 games (lower body injury).
28-Nov-08 Lower body injury, day-to-day.
29-Sep-08 Placed on waivers by the Chicago Blackhawks.
16-Mar-08 Missed 12 games (back spasms).
23-Feb-08 Back spasms, day-to-day.
20-Feb-08 Missed 3 games (sprained knee).
14-Feb-08 Sprained knee, day-to-day.

 

[Woodguy]

Could you produce a quote where he says this?

What I recall him saying is that the Oilers wanted to control all revenues in the building like other NHL teams do.

I look forward to your link.

It was a video interview. I pay particular attention to this issue and was livid at what he said.

He was discussing future profitability and mentioned that without a new building, their revenue streams are essentially capped and that might necessitate them to move to increase revenues.

While there is some truth to what he is saying regarding capped revenue (raising ticket prices/food/parking only way to increase revenue), his raising the specter of moving the team was a ludicrous statement.

This is the same Pat Laforge who said the baseball team lost money last year because they didn't cover their entire purchase cost in one year.

I honestly think Laforge wants the team here and wants a new building, but using bully tactics won't work.

He (and others who post here) keep mentioning that Edmonton is the smallest market in the NHL. While that is true population wise, revenue wise they are in the top ten.

Ask the guys in Phoenix, Tampa etc how good having a population base of 4M+ is to draw from.

The Panthers are offering to pay babysitting to get fans to come to games and Laforge was musing about moving away from a city that supports a terrible team like his.

The arrogance pissed me off and should piss off everyone who pays $$$ to watch this team, especially my fellow season ticketholders.

 

[SlowFreshOil*]

It was a video interview. I pay particular attention to this issue and was livid at what he said.

He was discussing future profitability and mentioned that without a new building, their revenue streams are essentially capped and that might necessitate them to move to increase revenues.

While there is some truth to what he is saying regarding capped revenue (raising ticket prices/food/parking only way to increase revenue), his raising the specter of moving the team was a ludicrous statement.

This is the same Pat Laforge who said the baseball team lost money last year because they didn't cover their entire purchase cost in one year.

I honestly think Laforge wants the team here and wants a new building, but using bully tactics won't work.

He (and others who post here) keep mentioning that Edmonton is the smallest market in the NHL. While that is true population wise, revenue wise they are in the top ten.

Ask the guys in Phoenix, Tampa etc how good having a population base of 4M+ is to draw from.

The Panthers are offering to pay babysitting to get fans to come to games and Laforge was musing about moving away from a city that supports a terrible team like his.

The arrogance pissed me off and should piss off everyone who pays $$$ to watch this team, especially my fellow season ticketholders.

Some of you have selective hearing problems. He didn't say that or anything even remotely close to that (they would move the team).

He said some things that are true (in terms of the team running the building) but at no time was there a threat to move the team. If there was, it would have been all over the news.

 

[Woodguy]

Some of you have selective hearing problems. He didn't say that or anything even remotely close to that (they would move the team).

He said some things that are true (in terms of the team running the building) but at no time was there a threat to move the team. If there was, it would have been all over the news.

SFO,

Why are you so obstinate?

Others discussed this on other websites (Lowetide for sure)

He wasn't making a pronouncement that "new rink or elss", but in the conversation he brought it up.

I will search some video archives to see what I can find.

 

[I am the Liquor]

SFO,

Why are you so obstinate?

Others discussed this on other websites (Lowetide for sure)

He wasn't making a pronouncement that "new rink or elss", but in the conversation he brought it up.

I will search some video archives to see what I can find.

I heard it as well. It was the Global series on a new arena.

 

[SlowFreshOil*]

SFO,

Why are you so obstinate?

Others discussed this on other websites (Lowetide for sure)

He wasn't making a pronouncement that "new rink or elss", but in the conversation he brought it up.

I will search some video archives to see what I can find.

I heard it as well. It was the Global series on a new arena.

So you're both telling me that Laforge said, either there's a new rink or the team moves? Wow, I'm shocked I didn't see that on the front of the newspapers.

Please provide me actual quotes. I went back and checked the series you're talking about IATL, and at no point did he make any kind of threat like that. Like I said, if he did, it would have been all over the news.

He didn't, so it wasn't.

 

[Red Deer Rebel]

Here are the actual quotes from LaForge that have been produced:

The Oilers have yet to finalize plans for a new arena on the downtown Baccarat casino lands, either in terms of design or finances. "We haven't asked for anything yet, and we're figuring out what the ask is," says Oilers president Patrick LaForge.

Both Nichols and Oilers owner Daryl Katz say many people are too complacent, expecting Katz to do it all. "It's good that Daryl Katz purchased the Oilers, but him buying them and them staying here forever, we have to all take care of that," La-Forge says. "I hear that apathy, too.

'Daryl owns them, over to Daryl.' I think that's wrong. It's a very dangerous attitude."

It is possible a new arena could be built elsewhere in the Edmonton area, LaForge says. "There will always be options for our business. We've heard about those, whether it's on the edge of the city, or in other (communities) around the edge of the city. They are probably more economical, but nothing will have as much impact on the city (as a downtown arena)."

So, there has been no request for public money yet. The article talks about how other NHL cities have footed a 60% share. It is safe to assume that Katz will ask for public money, however there is nothing in the article to suggest he is asking for anything more than other cities have established as a precedent.

He talks about the public apathy, and how some seem to think the arena should be funded 100% by Katz.

The only "move" mentioned is to the outskirts of Edmonton, and the communities surrounding Edmonton. Maybe Katz will buy some field out by Morinville and build there.

I hope he renames the team the "Alberta Oilers" if this turns out to be the case.

In any event, I fail to see why people get worked up. They are businessmen, and will seek the best deal they can get. Nobody is forced to buy tickets, and if it is more profitable to move the team out to the suburbs of Edmonton, they will do so, and will likely receive a very warm reception in the process.

 

[I am the Liquor]

So you're both telling me that Laforge said, either there's a new rink or the team moves? Wow, I'm shocked I didn't see that on the front of the newspapers.

Please provide me actual quotes. I went back and checked the series you're talking about IATL, and at no point did he make any kind of threat like that. Like I said, if he did, it would have been all over the news.

He didn't, so it wasn't.

Can you provide the link?

Two seperate guys told you so. I have no links to Woodguy. Cover your ears and go lalalalalala all you want, I know what I heard and saw. If you want to ignore it feel free. I could care less really.

 

[Supermassive]

It was an interview on Global about the possibility of building a new arena (they did a series). He made a statement about the necessity of a new building to ensure that the team does not move. He is a grade A d-bag and Woodguy's take is right on the money.

I viewed said interview. You and Woodguy have it right. Granted, it was an add-on to his explanation as to why the city needs the new arena, and hardly his lead argument, but it should have never, ever been uttered.

LaForge's pomposity makes me want to thrash him. (I won't forget his pathetic cheapshots at Ryan Smyth after Smyth was traded, either.)

This organization gets little-to-none of my money as long as he's involved in the shot-calling.

http://oilersnation.com/2009/9/12/patrick-laforge-northlands-and-the-new-arena

"We lost money last year. We lost quite a bit of money. "I've said all along that we can't count on the largesse of the owner's Visa card to keep hockey in Edmonton, or in Calgary, and the (new) building provides the sustainability model that you need through good times and bad."

 

[GirardSpinorama]

For all your talk of their rebuilding processes being the better one, you don't really follow them at all, do you?

You ask about Stewart and Simmonds, two players who just happened to break out when things fell into place ahead of them. I suppose my answer would be:

Gilbert Brule (age 21): .269 GPG, .585 PPG
Chris Stewart (age 23): .356 GPG, .733 PPG
Wayne Simmonds (age 21): .256 GPG, .659 PPG

Dustin Penner (age 27): .420 GPG, .840 PPG
Wojtek Wolski (age 24): .320 GPG, .920 PPG
Dustin Brown (age 24): .236 GPG, .647 PPG

Sam Gagner (age 20): .243 GPG, .612 PPG
Ryan O'Reilly (turns 19 next month): .100 GPG, .360 PPG

Ryan Potulny (age 25): .294 GPG, .530 PPG
Troy Brouwer (age 24) : .274 GPG, .500 PPG

And just for the hell of it:

Ales Hemsky (age 26): 0.313 GPG, 1.00 PPG
Vincent Lecavalier (age 29): 0.254 GPG, 0.98 PPG
Martin St Louis (age 34): 0.255 GPG, 1.08 PPG

The question of Drew Doughty, Steven Stamkos, Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews, Matt Duchene: That's the fair one. Gee, how did those teams get those players again? How will we ever follow them on that route from 29th overall?

Another big question is Paul Statsny and Anze Kopitar. Huge factors for their teams and proof that when things fall into place on the top of the roster, it fosters an environment for the players at the bottom of the roster to develop and produce in low-pressure situations like Chris Stewart and Wayne Simmonds are doing.

Depending on our prospect pool, it will probably take more than a year. But 7? Come on.

How did Brule get younger than Stewart?

 

[SlowFreshOil*]

Can you provide the link?

Two seperate guys told you so. I have no links to Woodguy. Cover your ears and go lalalalalala all you want, I know what I heard and saw. If you want to ignore it feel free. I could care less really.

I still haven't seen the quote where he says,"New building or the team moves."

He never said anything of the sort.

By the way, I'm in no way a fan of Laforge. I just know he didn't say that directly.

 

[Supermassive]

I still haven't seen the quote where he says,"New building or the team moves."

He never said anything of the sort.

By the way, I'm in no way a fan of Laforge. I just know he didn't say that directly.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/132995

LaForge: "We're totally focused on downtown." LaForge said that the Oilers "wouldn't be interested in staying at Rexall Place," where the team has a lease until '14, "even if the building was expanded and updated as suggested in a 2007 consultant's report. LaForge said that the city of Edmonton has not given the Oilers a "financial commitment" for the development, and he "declined to say whether the Oilers would still build the arena if public cash -- estimated at [C$300-400M] -- doesn't come through."

2 + 2 = ?

 

[SlowFreshOil*]

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/132995



2 + 2 = ?

= He never said,"New building or we move."