Jonathan Toews

[pvr]

Accurate and worth a read, particularly for the more histrionic posters.

Let’s Have A Frank Talk About Toews – Faxes from Uncle Dale

Here’s the thing with that article...at the end is speculation as to why his shooting percentage is so low, pointing out that it’s been down vs his historical percentage, for the past two plus years. I think the eye test reveals that his shot is slower, less accurate, and generally is taken from farther away from the net...a triad that is leading to increased failure. I believe that 9% is his new shooting percent norm.

 

[LDF]

my take and this based on a non athletic person, per se.

players have a different level of talent and yes that well of being an elite, once they reach it, differ per player. the 2nd level is and this is where a poster who played at a higher level competition would be happy to inject some of their knowledge here.

Toews, he played a vast amount of his games, playing on the first line may have taken a toll on his body. now i will support this with the knowledge that players who were elite, some 20+ yrs ago, when they hit a certain level, the skills start to diminish. which i attribute to Toews and in some extent Seabs. Seabs is different with his head / upper body injuries that he has received in his very good career.

this is, i guess more recognizable with the new sports medicine progress then it was back in the day . now comes that understanding and an org willing to embrace it, to understand it.

again i will always remember that great yrs, the SC yrs.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Is it that Toews is not giving the effort and doesnt work hard enough on his game or he has just declined, doesn’t have it in him anymore to produce at a high level?

If its an effort issue then yes, its on Toews and he deserves heavy criticism. But if its not an effort issue, if its just that he has lost a step and declined and his game cannot reach the high production of his salary level then what is the point of moaning at him? He was at a high level when he received the contract, it was anticipated he still had many prime years. Unfortunately some players and their games regress faster then others. In my opinion this is the issue, its that he has declined and cannot produce physically anymore. I do not blame Bowman for this, Toews had to be signed and you could not anticipate this happening so fast. You can debate whether he could be signed for less, we will never know.

Keith is much older and a decline was expected. He has done remarkably well to stay at the level he is and he is still very good. His contract has been an absolute steal no matter what happens going forward.

Seabrook was the bonehead move when you seen him already declining and give him that ridiculous contract. That one is all on Bowman. I dont blame Seabrook. What was he supposed to do, refuse the contract?

 

[Ace Rothstein]

Seabrook was the bonehead move when you seen him already declining and give him that ridiculous contract. That one is all on Bowman. I dont blame Seabrook. What was he supposed to do, refuse the contract?

Did Stan even bother to negotiate with Seabrook's agent on this contract?

 

[ClydeLee]

I still remember when people understood the mind set of it at least from the sigoing rationale that it was list around 1 mil more per year than what Seabs was making before. Of it wasn't a nmc until the final few seasons of it or 8 years being just that increase wouldn't likely of been done

 

[Panzerspitze]

Did Stan even bother to negotiate with Seabrook's agent on this contract?

Why, yes, of course. Do you think Stanley just threw in that NMC without putting up a hardnosed fight first?

 

[Ace Rothstein]

Why, yes, of course. Do you think Stanley just threw in that NMC without putting up a hardnosed fight first?

I'm failing to see what Stan might have "won" in these negotiations. Seabrook received a ridiculous salary, term and the NMC. Literally everything about the contract was terrible before the ink dried.

 

[Pez68]

ZERO effort and urgency tonight. Laziest play I've ever seen from him.

 

[JaegerDice]

ZERO effort and urgency tonight. Laziest play I've ever seen from him.

Not really no.

5v5, He's been on the ice for 13 attempts for, 3 against.
7 shots for, 0 against.
5 scoring chances for, 2 (missed net) against.
1 high-danger chance for, 1 high-danger chance against.

EDIT: Add 1 goal for, zero against.

This is one of those times that criticism of Toews is completely indiscriminate of his actual performance. He's been good tonight. But anything short of a hat trick in a victory falls beneath the 'shit' bar.

The Blackhawks have actually been the better team overall 5v5 tonight, they've just **** the bed on special teams and had a defensively worthless line get exposed.

 

[BK]

Not really no.

5v5, He's been on the ice for 13 attempts for, 3 against.
7 shots for, 0 against.
5 scoring chances for, 2 (missed net) against.
1 high-danger chance for, 1 high-danger chance against.

This is one of those times that (at least through 2 periods) criticism of Toews is completely indiscriminate of his actual performance. He's been good.

The Blackhawks have actually been the better team overall 5v5 tonight, they've just **** the bed on special teams and had a defensively worthless line get exposed.

Sorry JD but Toews's lack of effort is obvious to anyone with eyes that somewhat work. Effort is real even if you can't track it. Toews has been pure shit, if you think otherwise I would contend you did not watch the game.

 

[JaegerDice]

Sorry JD but Toews's lack of effort is obvious to anyone with eyes that somewhat work. Effort is real even if you can't track it. Toews has been pure ****, if you think otherwise I would contend you did not watch the game.

I watched the game. Which is why I know it came down to special teams and the Kane line getting it's ass turned inside out by the Ovi line.

 

[BK]

I watched the game. Which is why I know it came down to special teams and the Kane line getting it's ass turned inside out by the Ovi line.

Toews was terrible and you are trying to say otherwise.

 

[JaegerDice]

Toews was terrible and you are trying to say otherwise.

Toews wasn't terrible tonight. He has been in previous games, and I've said as much - I believe I described his performance as 'rat piss' not long ago. Tonight he was good.

This is what I mean when I said the criticism of Toews has become indiscriminate. It's constant regardless of performance.

If he's not putting up multi-point performances in wins, then it's bad. If he scores in a loss, it's a meaningless goal. If they win and he doesn't score, he wasn't doing enough. Tonight, he won his matchup, scored a goal, and the team lost because an entirely differently line got their asses caved in, the goaltending was sub .900 and the PK couldn't stop the opposition's PP.

But he was bad.

K.

Whatever. This will continue until the puck starts going in and/or they start winning more. It's not a particularly reasonable measure of performance, but it's pretty standard for sports fans across every sport.

 

[BK]

Toews wasn't terrible tonight. He has been in previous games, and I've said as much - I believe I described his performance as 'rat piss' not long ago. Tonight he was good.

This is what I mean when I said the criticism of Toews has become indiscriminate. If he's not putting up multi-point performances in wins, then it's bad. If he scores in a loss, or it's a meaningless goal. If they win and he doesn't score, he wasn't doing enough. Tonight, he won his matchup, scored a goal, and the team lost because an entirely differently line got their asses caved in, the goaltending was sub .900 and the PK couldn't stop the opposition's PP.

But he was bad.

K.

Whatever. This will continue until the puck starts going in and/or they start winning more. It's not a particularly reasonable measure of performance, but it's pretty standard for sports fans.

This is a Toews thread. I knwo what a good game from a player looks like and what a bad game looks like. This is 100% a situation where numbers make a terrible performance look good. His effort is the concerning part. You can track it if you watch him in the corners and on the backcheck. He is hurt or not putting in effort. This is not fanboi hate, this is judging a player on how he played.

 

[LDF]

This is a Toews thread. I knwo what a good game from a player looks like and what a bad game looks like. This is 100% a situation where numbers make a terrible performance look good. His effort is the concerning part. You can track it if you watch him in the corners and on the backcheck. He is hurt or not putting in effort. This is not fanboi hate, this is judging a player on how he played.

and yet kane and his line esp tonite gets a free pass. kane and his line was a -3

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Kane hasn't been MIA for 2+ years and Kane is also suffering from loss of Panarin. A loss that was result of trying to salvage Toews situation by propping up talent around him in hopes of someone proving capable of carrying him. Instead Toews is dragging down Saad

At this point the only possible hope for Hawks is to stick Kane with Toews and have Kane try to carry Toews

 

[Blackhawks]

Just finished watching another nauseating game, Toews and Seabrook need to develop unbearable skin rashes due to equipment material ASAP!!!

 

[Backyard Hockey]

Lots of discussion about vegan this, decline that

Occam's Razor folks.

Toews' play declined when his $10.5m contract kicked in. We see countless athletes in every sport take their foot off the gas when they 'get paid'. We are seeing a lack of results, but we are seeing what looks like a lack of effort and a lack of 'want to'. I could understand if he was 35. Remember, this declined kicked in around age 27.

Until I see otherwise, I'll chalk it up to yet another athlete who got lazy when the big money kicked in

Best Captain in sports? Indeed.

 

[Blackhawks]

Lots of discussion about vegan this, decline that

Occam's Razor folks.

Toews' play declined when his $10.5m contract kicked in. We see countless athletes in every sport take their foot off the gas when they 'get paid'. We are seeing a lack of results, but we are seeing what looks like a lack of effort and a lack of 'want to'. I could understand if he was 35. Remember, this declined kicked in around age 27.

Until I see otherwise, I'll chalk it up to yet another athlete who got lazy when the big money kicked in

Best Captain in sports? Indeed.

Blasphamy!!! How dare you criticisize the all mighty Toews???

Possession numbers don’t tell the story you are claiming, he is the same player he always was, don’t watch the games please just look at the corsi that’s more important!

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Lots of discussion about vegan this, decline that

Occam's Razor folks.

Toews' play declined when his $10.5m contract kicked in. We see countless athletes in every sport take their foot off the gas when they 'get paid'. We are seeing a lack of results, but we are seeing what looks like a lack of effort and a lack of 'want to'. I could understand if he was 35. Remember, this declined kicked in around age 27.

Until I see otherwise, I'll chalk it up to yet another athlete who got lazy when the big money kicked in

Best Captain in sports? Indeed.

Actually his play fell off after the 2nd Cup and I can't say that I would be different.

At that point he had won 2 Cups, Conn Smythe and and a Selke Award, scored a goal in a Gold Medal winning Olympic game.

I think he's on autopilot at that point.

 

[BK]

Blasphamy!!! How dare you criticisize the all mighty Toews???

Possession numbers don’t tell the story you are claiming, he is the same player he always was, don’t watch the games please just look at the corsi that’s more important!

Just go troll somewhere else because unless you actually think one person makes a majority in this situation that is what you are doing.

 

[LDF]

Lots of discussion about vegan this, decline that

Occam's Razor folks.

Toews' play declined when his $10.5m contract kicked in. We see countless athletes in every sport take their foot off the gas when they 'get paid'. We are seeing a lack of results, but we are seeing what looks like a lack of effort and a lack of 'want to'. I could understand if he was 35. Remember, this declined kicked in around age 27.

Until I see otherwise, I'll chalk it up to yet another athlete who got lazy when the big money kicked in

Best Captain in sports? Indeed.

another part of occam Razor is that the simplest answer is nature or natural problem. this could also be that toews and his biological clock has or is coming into play

 

[LordKOTL]

Disagree that it was a bad game from Toews. I count no less than 4 time Toews on the backcheck covered for one of Keith's boneheaded mistakes and broke up a primo chance against.

If Toews is supposed to be an elite 2-way FWD, this is the type of game he should have. He managed to pot one and managed to cover for our alleged top D-man playing like he was a beer leaguer.

He may not be particularly good overall this season, but I don't think this game was one of his bad ones.

 

[BK]

JD - Last night's number were honestly hilarious but they are good example of how far advanced analytics still have to go. The Hawks carried play but not like the numbers show.

I mean FFS Toews had like a 80% corsi.

 

[BK]

Disagree that it was a bad game from Toews. I count no less than 4 time Toews on the backcheck covered for one of Keith's boneheaded mistakes and broke up a primo chance against.

If Toews is supposed to be an elite 2-way FWD, this is the type of game he should have. He managed to pot one and managed to cover for our alleged top D-man playing like he was a beer leaguer.

He may not be particularly good overall this season, but I don't think this game was one of his bad ones.

There were also 3-4 occasions where he dogged it on the back check and instead of skating hard you could actually see him bitching. These are the plays that can't happen but have been happening more and more.

Other than Kemeny, I think a coaching change could help Toews the most.