Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part IV

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Glory Days

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Aug 16, 2012
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We get the arena he stays. We don't he leaves. At that point it doesn't really matter where he goes. Simple as that. I wish people would stop reading between the lines that don't exist. John is about as sincere a professional athlete as there is.
 
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periferal

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Jul 5, 2007
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Thank you for posting. I referenced it last week. I was met with responses of why would he say different, has anyone really heard this, and how about a 7 player swap with Columbus is Tavares agrees to a sign and trade. I actually feel sad for people

I'm impressed that you can feel sad for people here. You're much further along the "healthy psychology spectrum" than I am. I'm still stuck on, "what a ******* idiot."
 
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Costigan77

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Oct 7, 2014
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I'm impressed that you can feel sad for people here. You're much further along the "healthy psychology spectrum" than I am. I'm still stuck on, "what a ******* idiot."

I was trying to be politically correct. Because "dumb f***" is basically all that goes through my head when I pound out one of those responses
 
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13th Floor

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Oct 10, 2008
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I was trying to be politically correct. Because "dumb f***" is basically all that goes through my head when I pound out one of those responses

Don't even bother. There's a group of people here that will find the negativity in anything, even when we have an exciting team. Even that sentence gets people going. "Of course you find a team that has sucked for 2 decades just being somewhat relevant as 'exciting'. Raise the bar and stop with the Stockholm Syndrome."

Then they put the burden of proof on you to prove them wrong. There's 0% chance that Belmont goes through. Prove to me that it goes through with facts. The Isles will not get to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Prove to me they will. Here are my facts: they haven't done it in 25 years. I win!!

Just sit back and enjoy what IS an exciting season. The chips will fall where they may.
 

MartyC

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Don't even bother. There's a group of people here that will find the negativity in anything, even when we have an exciting team. Even that sentence gets people going. "Of course you find a team that has sucked for 2 decades just being somewhat relevant as 'exciting'. Raise the bar and stop with the Stockholm Syndrome."

Then they put the burden of proof on you to prove them wrong. There's 0% chance that Belmont goes through. Prove to me that it goes through with facts. The Isles will not get to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Prove to me they will. Here are my facts: they haven't done it in 25 years. I win!!

Just sit back and enjoy what IS an exciting season. The chips will fall where they may.

This right here^^^^^^^
 

steveat

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Jun 4, 2011
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Do we sign Bailey if JT decides to leave and if we do..do we sign him between 5 and 6 or will we balk and offer a much lower amount?
 

ScaredStreit

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May 5, 2006
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Understanding you are still sour with the Ho-sang conversation a few weeks ago, I'll ignore some of your blatant sensitivity.

Doug Weight has never coached a full season. Let's revisit that one later this year. Jon Cooper missed the playoffs in his first year, which he took over 13 games into a season, and then was bounced in round 1 in season 2--swept by the Canadiens----the lower seed. (Ouch!)

This team will not be in Seattle or Quebec, but rather sign a longer term, not so team friendly lease with the Barclays-if Belmont falls through. I am going to take Bettman, and both owners who explicitly has said they bought a New York franchise, to then look at other options in NY. But the tea leaves read that this team is closer to an arena than ever before.

If you have actually seen tavares interviews, in depth things into his family life, etc, he is actually a low key person, that seems to have been raised to me humble and driven. Have you met him? Not like when you want him to sign your picture or jersey, but ever met him? This summer I had the opportunity to golf with Tavares and clutterbuck 3 times. After I had golfed with them twice last year. I am sure I know him on more of a personal level than you do. I have sat at a bar with him and had a few drinks after our rounds. I believe two of the round we shared a cart, so talking with him for about 4 hours at a time, usually is enough to get a good barometer on a person. He seems genuine, comfortable, and a lot like what you see on tv.

That's great it's cheaper to live in Tampa. As someone that works in a field that looks at economic and demographic indicators, I can contend it is "cheaper" to live there. If your definition "quality of life" is having expensive things at less of a cost, congrats! A bit shallow. If your reference of "quality of life" refers to best place for your significant other to continue to work in the field she does, a place to start a family, and an area with fantastic schools where you can settle for the next 20 years, then I would say the north shore of Long Island is the place to be. (Please note the specifc area of Long Island, as the rest is starting to suck) Especially, since 11 of 12 months (He trains 1 month in Ontario) he lives on Long Island, garden city specifically.

If you are just stating Stamkos' decision was easier because of Tampa, fine. Tavares options are what? Toronto? Similar to living in Long island. Detroit? Oh wait, Stanley Cup contenders were one of your attributes. San Jose? LA? More expensive than NY. Higher Income tax rates, especially for millionares.

Finally--Webster dictionary definition of the work "Fact"
----a thing that is indisputably the case

Please stop labeling your strong opinions, as you did in the previous thread you went at me at Ho-sang thread, as fact. They are not. They are your hypotheses based on information you've been given, read, or chose to believe. Just as my opinions are not fact. However, mine are based on fact. Just because you throw some proverbial "boiler plate bull****" against the wall doesn't make it fact, or even correct. I've provided links. I've provided accurate information. You provide opinion and a woe-is-me the Islander fan response for every move or non move they make. Congrats. Seems like a swell person to be around.

Honestly I don't recall the Ho-Sang conversation you're talking about. I don't deny it, I just can't recall off the top of my head.
I personally know a Hart Trophy who still plays in the league. I know a former assistant coach in the NHL (who currently coaches in the KHL)...I also (kind of) know a former teammate of Tavares (ex-Islander)...but that's more of an acquaintance since he's good friends with my good friend. What does this mean for me? Well it means that if I have a ticket I can see a movie at the theater.


In other words: nothing.

PS: I can easily prove my claims: PM me to do so, as unlike some people around here I don't like to publicly brag-but when somebody pulls the "do you know so-and-so personally?", I combat it with "well that really doesn't mean anything-and I know because I'm in that situation"...so when I see people trying to flex their internet muscles I just shake my head.

I also knew a former MLB star player, and people I know knew him very well...what did that mean in terms of my insight into his contract negotiations? Not a thing.

I'll be looking forward to your evidence as well since I'm interested. If you want to brag and be an internet big shot: prove what you say. Otherwise, I don't have the time to deal with it.
 
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GTislanders

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Jan 9, 2014
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I don't think this is a player that is worth 10 million dollars. And I don't think we should engage him in that kind of contract offer. Just my .02
 

Strummergas

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If we "carry the one" here, the fact you continue to read this thread would mean you want to be exhausted.

Ah yes, that old argument. With the exception of the Barclays thread, I tend to forget which threads are cesspools and which ones aren't so I occasionally stumble upon crap.

Sometimes HF is the equivalent of walking in on a family member pulling the pud. It's neither something you expect to see nor want to, and then even when you do, you certainly don't expect that it'll happen again and multiple times.
 
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MatthewBarnabysTears

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Mar 18, 2013
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I don't think this is a player that is worth 10 million dollars. And I don't think we should engage him in that kind of contract offer. Just my .02

I find this mentality nuts for so many reasons.
  1. There's no such thing as a player's intrinsic "worth." Only market value. Players of Tavares's caliber basically never hit the UFA market—if he did—and, perhaps most crucially, in a year with a rising salary cap—he would absolutely make somewhere in that neighborhood.
  2. You can't build a team only with bargains. All the best teams are a mix of young guys on below-market deals, middle tier players making about market value, and, yeah, "overpaid" veterans. That's how the NHL CBA structures the pay scale. If you want a well rounded team, you really can't get around having that latter group. And Tavares at $10mm plus is a way better use of money than the Andrew Ladds of the world at whatever number they're going to end up at after the cap increases (and I like Andrew Ladd).
  3. With that said, Tavares is probably worth more to us than any other team. If he leaves the odds of us getting another player of his caliber and pedigree within the next generation are slim to none. We're not a hot UFA destination and the odds of us lucking into another number one pick in a year with a blue chip talent are also close to nil (even in the dark years, we only got one top 3 pick—we basically picked 5th every year). And we already know he's a fit for the community and talent we already have.
  4. This might not be the "smart" way to do business, but the fact is, Tavares did this organization a massive favor by taking a severely below market contract the last half decade. We owe him. Yeah, yeah, ideally you're not supposed to overpay for past performance. But this isn't some cut-throat, arms-length business. It makes a difference how the organization is perceived. It would be an incredibly bad look to nickel and dime the guy after the discount he gave us.
 

steveat

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Jun 4, 2011
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If you go market value, JT isn't worth more than 10, however, when take into consideration how JT took a discount up until now...it's not overpayment at all. He proved to us he was the guy and we should fess up and pay him.
 
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Strummergas

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I find this mentality nuts for so many reasons.
  1. There's no such thing as a player's intrinsic "worth." Only market value. Players of Tavares's caliber basically never hit the UFA market—if he did—and, perhaps most crucially, in a year with a rising salary cap—he would absolutely make somewhere in that neighborhood.
  2. You can't build a team only with bargains. All the best teams are a mix of young guys on below-market deals, middle tier players making about market value, and, yeah, "overpaid" veterans. That's how the NHL CBA structures the pay scale. If you want a well rounded team, you really can't get around having that latter group. And Tavares at $10mm plus is a way better use of money than the Andrew Ladds of the world at whatever number they're going to end up at after the cap increases (and I like Andrew Ladd).
  3. With that said, Tavares is probably worth more to us than any other team. If he leaves the odds of us getting another player of his caliber and pedigree within the next generation are slim to none. We're not a hot UFA destination and the odds of us lucking into another number one pick in a year with a blue chip talent are also close to nil (even in the dark years, we only got one top 3 pick—we basically picked 5th every year). And we already know he's a fit for the community and talent we already have.
  4. This might not be the "smart" way to do business, but the fact is, Tavares did this organization a massive favor by taking a severely below market contract the last half decade. We owe him. Yeah, yeah, ideally you're not supposed to overpay for past performance. But this isn't some cut-throat, arms-length business. It makes a difference how the organization is perceived. It would be an incredibly bad look to nickel and dime the guy after the discount he gave us.

You would think you're trying to explain quantum physics the way it just doesn't sink in with some people...
 
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beach

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Aug 17, 2005
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You would think you're trying to explain quantum physics the way it just doesn't sink in with some people...
Why must you denigrate others' opinions? Debate and opinion is the reason for this board. I'm not aiming this post just at you, it is for everyone. Lately, the commentary here has become a lot more personal than it used to be. We're all long suffering Isles fans, some longer than others. Why can't we just debate without insinuating that the other person is an idiot? For a situation like Tavares', no one knows how it will play out, and there is no "right" opinion. Just my two cents.
 

ScaredStreit

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May 5, 2006
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We should be looking at what Tavares's value is to US and not the league as a whole. Let's face it: he puts butts in seats and eyes on the TV. If you're asking me whether keeping Tavares is worth getting rid of Kulemin...my answer is YES. That's a $9.6million hit, and you're almost all of the way there for his "value". We can't afford to lose Tavares-nothing we get in a trade will be equal to him, and losing him on the market is even worse.
 
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Doshell Propivo

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Dec 5, 2005
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We should be looking at what Tavares's value is to US and not the league as a whole. Let's face it: he puts butts in seats and eyes on the TV. If you're asking me whether keeping Tavares is worth getting rid of Kulemin...my answer is YES. That's a $9.6million hit, and you're almost all of the way there for his "value". We can't afford to lose Tavares-nothing we get in a trade will be equal to him, and losing him on the market is even worse.
Not really...
 
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Strummergas

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Why must you denigrate others' opinions? Debate and opinion is the reason for this board. I'm not aiming this post just at you, it is for everyone. Lately, the commentary here has become a lot more personal than it used to be. We're all long suffering Isles fans, some longer than others. Why can't we just debate without insinuating that the other person is an idiot? For a situation like Tavares', no one knows how it will play out, and there is no "right" opinion. Just my two cents.

When opinions have a foundation in bullshit, they're hard to walk around it. I debate often with posters that I don't consider idiots, but not everyone fits that profile.

And yes, no one knows how this situation will play out (maybe not even Tavares at the moment), but some of the stuff I've read on this subject just doesn't seem to be based in reality.
 

Glory Days

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Aug 16, 2012
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The cap is projecting to go up. We have salary coming off the books. John is our best player. No one can logically dispute that. He has to be signed. Otherwise we turn into the Marlins of hockey.
 
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LeapOnOver

Mackenzie is a hack!
Jan 23, 2011
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Burned?

Hahahaha great.

You asked for links where Stamkos said he wanted to stay.....you received several, all at different time periods.

Ryan Callahan was TRADED sweetie pie. After being hard headed for sticking to his MONEY demand, which Tavares hasn't even broached. To even compare the two situations shows that you literally had to dig to the depths to find someone who said they were staying and didn't---even though it wasn't his choice to leave. It was a money stalemate, not him forcing his way out. And kudos to the Rangers, who saw he wasn't worth the money and injuries were catching up to him.

Your argument is even more flawed as Callahan was forced to then accept almost $750k less per season and 0ne less year than he was offered by the Rangers. Callahan tried to call the Rangers bluff....and lost.

If you are sensing a tone from my previous, maybe suggesting a sign and trade (this is not basketball) or trading your franchise star to a division rival in the middle of a playoff race is border line psychotic

He was traded AFTER they realized they couldn't resign him kitten. All his words up to being traded were that he hoped to be back with the Rangers. Just goes to show you words mean nothing, any only the Cosmic Costigan really knows what will happen in the end. But you already knew I was going to respond this way....

And of course your reading comprehension scores are in the basement. I asked for links where Stamkos stated he was going to sign with Tampa all along, like you actually stated. That he never had any intention of signing with anyone else. Specifically something along the lines of "I was just waiting until the last minute because I was in no rush and I never entertained signing anywhere else". That's what you are implying aren't you?
 

LeapOnOver

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LeapOnOver

Mackenzie is a hack!
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Happy to. I can't find the link so can you post it? I assume you're saying it's trending much worse now?

Yeah, I mean I wouldn't say worse. It's just that earlier in the encyclopedia thing he was much more adamant about his desire to stay with the Isles. He would say things like my dream is to win a Stanley Cup with the Isles and return glory to the franchise etc, etc. Now, he usually states that he wants to win a cup, and he'd like to do that with the Isles. Just subtle differences and less adamant, that's all.

Just my perception, I mean i'm not about to open a thread saying that Tavares doesn't celebrate goals like he used too because of it, lol. Just something I've noticed, since I have a lifelong tendency of analyzing peoples' behavior and language and tone are usually a pretty good tip off to what someone is thinking.

My thoughts pretty much echo what the experts are saying. He's waiting to see what happens before he makes a decision and he's in know hurry. However, if you asked the same experts what they thought about JT signing two or three years ago, they said things like "He'll be a lifelong Islander". Nobody really says that anymore except fans. I even think one of the dynasty guys came out and said that about him. Not so much anymore...

Here's the link to what I believe is part 1 , the one I used to read before this one: Complete Encyclopedia of Tavares telling the Leafs to get lost [Updated 9/7/17]
 

PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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Yeah, I mean I wouldn't say worse. It's just that earlier in the encyclopedia thing he was much more adamant about his desire to stay with the Isles. He would say things like my dream is to win a Stanley Cup with the Isles and return glory to the franchise etc, etc. Now, he usually states that he wants to win a cup, and he'd like to do that with the Isles. Just subtle differences and less adamant, that's all.

Just my perception, I mean i'm not about to open a thread saying that Tavares doesn't celebrate goals like he used too because of it, lol. Just something I've noticed, since I have a lifelong tendency of analyzing peoples' behavior and language and tone are usually a pretty good tip off to what someone is thinking.

My thoughts pretty much echo what the experts are saying. He's waiting to see what happens before he makes a decision and he's in know hurry. However, if you asked the same experts what they thought about JT signing two or three years ago, they said things like "He'll be a lifelong Islander". Nobody really says that anymore except fans. I even think one of the dynasty guys came out and said that about him. Not so much anymore...

Here's the link to what I believe is part 1 , the one I used to read before this one: Complete Encyclopedia of Tavares telling the Leafs to get lost [Updated 9/7/17]

Maybe he's just tired of being asked the same question a million times a day? That would certainly impact a persons tone.
 
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