Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part IV

[beach]

Hypothetically speaking, even if we don't win the cup this year, I'd rather make it to the EC finals with JT, than miss out on the playoffs altogether and trade JT for a mid 1st and a prospect.

The deal would be much better than a mid 1st and prospect. Let's see how you feel after 5 more years of mediocrity after they let him walk for nothing.

 

[Dipietro39]

Good thing you have 0 to do with the team. So the guy has legit taken a below market contract the last 5 years, but you will dump him, because he wants to take his time.

Here is a fun fact. Belmont will be awarded within 30 days. Congrats. According to you, we should have 30 days of Tavares left as an Islander

That isn't exactly what I said. If after Belmont is awarded and we are in February at TDL and he STILL hasn't made up his mind, I would move him. What else is there to think about. He knows the team, the coach, Long Island and now a new arena. What epiphone is he going to have between Feb-July.

 

[PK Cronin]

I actually found one of the ones they were posted in (post #204) but it seems the pictures didn't migrate. At least not for my account, shame.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...art-ross-trophy.1873431/page-9#post-100661209

Yeah, those image uploads don't last forever unfortunately. Would've loved to have seen them. The titles sound hilarious.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

The deal would be much better than a mid 1st and prospect. Let's see how you feel after 5 more years of mediocrity after they let him walk for nothing.

The return would be something along these lines: a 1st round pick (from a playoff team so not a great pick) and a top prospect and a bottom 6 forward or bottom 6 defenseman. Possibly another B level prospect. Give or take. In any case, the return would make sense for a team in full scale rebuilding mode, not the way the Islanders are currently constructed. And even if JT does walk, there's no way the team will go into full blown rebuild going into Belmont. They'd still do everything they can to be competitive.

I plead with you, please stop this trade JT nonsense. Ain't happening.

 

[Bones45]

In what could be my final year as an Isles fan, I want them to go for it. I give zero ****s about the kids if Tavares walks. I'm not sticking around for another rebuild.

Oh please --- stop your antics. You arent going anywhere.. we finally get a good arena, and youll be sobbing in da corner?

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Is the pending relocation and the state of the team the only concern? It seems like you guys should have the cap to let him name his number, but I don't want to assume you are a cap team. How high can you afford without gutting the team?

 

[Strummergas]

Oh please --- stop your antics. You arent going anywhere.. we finally get a good arena, and youll be sobbing in da corner?

Watch me walk right the f*** out completely dry-eyed. Watch me.

 

[PK Cronin]

Is the pending relocation and the state of the team the only concern? It seems like you guys should have the cap to let him name his number, but I don't want to assume you are a cap team. How high can you afford without gutting the team?

Money isn't the issue. He's getting a blank check if and when he wants it.

 

[BMOK33]

I don’t see them getting any haul at the deadline for him unless Belmont is announced and he still doesn’t sign. That may make teams more likely to think he’s going to sign with them. Honestly if you’re Garth and Ledecky I don’t see why you don’t get together with JT and tell him “let’s noy sign this contract, we are trading you no matter what and then signing you back and this team will be even better than it otherwise would have been”

 

[Lame Lambert]

I don’t see them getting any haul at the deadline for him unless Belmont is announced and he still doesn’t sign. That may make teams more likely to think he’s going to sign with them. Honestly if you’re Garth and Ledecky I don’t see why you don’t get together with JT and tell him “let’s noy sign this contract, we are trading you no matter what and then signing you back and this team will be even better than it otherwise would have been”

A) He won’t be able to get an 8th year
B) I’m 99% sure that’s tampering

 

[BMOK33]

A) He won’t be able to get an 8th year
B) I’m 99% sure that’s tampering

I guess it is but who’s recording the conversations? If I’m Tavares I’m willing to lose the extra year if I think the team is possibly getting back a potential top line player or dman in return

 

[Lame Lambert]

I guess it is but who’s recording the conversations? If I’m Tavares I’m willing to lose the extra year if I think the team is possibly getting back a potential top line player or dman in return

I think you’re underestimating the value of 10-12 million dollars. If the Isles trade him and he re-signs you can bet someone is going to cry foul play.

 

[13th Floor]

Just curious for those that are advocating to trade him, are there any comparables in the current CBA era? Meaning, a franchise player that was traded mid-season before they become a UFA? I'm generally asking because I can't think of one. Seems like it would be complete GM-suicide, especially for a competing team. That's basically communicating to every other player and person in and out of the organization that we are throwing the towel in on the season and throwing in the towel on convincing him to stay.


You do what the Devils did with Parise. They kept him all year, went to the Stanley Cup Finals, and then he walked. They rebuilt and are ready to compete again 5 years later. And it only took that long because of the Kovy disaster.

There is no package coming back for a rental JT that is going to be worth it. It's also one sided to think that the package coming back would even prevent a rebuild. It's going to be picks and prospects that are essentially rolling the dice. Without that guarantee that you can be relevant post-traded-JT, you go all in this year. It's a no brainer. You don't trade JT during a season where we can compete to change a rebuild into a semi-rebuild.

 

[PK Cronin]

Just curious for those that are advocating to trade him, are there any comparables in the current CBA era? Meaning, a franchise player that was traded mid-season before they become a UFA? I'm generally asking because I can't think of one. Seems like it would be complete GM-suicide, especially for a competing team. That's basically communicating to every other player and person in and out of the organization that we are throwing the towel in on the season and throwing in the towel on convincing him to stay.


You do what the Devils did with Parise. They kept him all year, went to the Stanley Cup Finals, and then he walked. They rebuilt and are ready to compete again 5 years later. And it only took that long because of the Kovy disaster.

There is no package coming back for a rental JT that is going to be worth it. It's also one sided to think that the package coming back would even prevent a rebuild. It's going to be picks and prospects that are essentially rolling the dice. Without that guarantee that you can be relevant post-traded-JT, you go all in this year. It's a no brainer.

I looked a while back and all of the top tier guys who could be looked at were dealt in 1 for 1 type deals. None was a star player going for massive hauls in futures/young players.

 

[13th Floor]

I looked a while back and all of the top tier guys who could be looked at were dealt in 1 for 1 type deals. None was a star player going for massive hauls in futures/young players.

So like Subban for Weber? Johansen for Jones (though not franchise players)? Are any of these tied to pending UFA status? Those always seem to be either change of scenery type things (Subban) or need for need (F for D).

 

[MJF]

I looked a while back and all of the top tier guys who could be looked at were dealt in 1 for 1 type deals. None was a star player going for massive hauls in futures/young players.

Tavares to NJ for Strait.

 

[PK Cronin]

So like Subban for Weber? Johansen for Jones (though not franchise players)? Are any of these tied to pending UFA status? Those always seem to be either change of scenery type things (Subban) or need for need (F for D).

Yeah, those deals. I can't remember if any were because of pending UFA status, but it really doesn't matter if it was or wasn't (unless someone is suggesting we'll do a 1 for 1 deal) because the players never go for multiple highly prized pieces, and that's ultimately the point. We're not getting anything so good back for Tavares that it makes sense trading him, unless it's a 1 for 1 deal, but I can't imagine a team doing that unless their 1 player is going to become a UFA as well.

 

[periferal]

Insanity for those of you that thing we wouldn't get a very good return for JT should he be traded. Your very own Andrew Ladd returned a 1st rounder by himself when he was a pending FA. That would be significantly beneath the floor of what Tavares would return if he was put on the market and shopped around.

And jsut so we're all on the same page with JT's "no trade clause." That is a "Limited NTC" meaning he would have to submit a list of 8 teams he would refuse a trade to. You can almost guess who they would be, but what it does mean is that...The Isles could trade him to 20 other NHL teams. No doubt at least 3-5 of those teams would be VERY interested as they would either be making a run at the Cup and/or would love to get Tavares for a couple of months to see if they can sign him long term.

Add all that up and if JT was dealt a very solid package would come back at least for him.

Now if you don't want to trade JT because you hope to convince him to stay that's one thing, but don't sit there and tell us that the reason not to trade him is because you won't get enough back. If he's going to leave and Isles management knows this, then trading him for a good return would stop the bleeding as opposed to letting the patient bleed to death.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

Insanity for those of you that thing we wouldn't get a very good return for JT should he be traded. Your very own Andrew Ladd returned a 1st rounder by himself when he was a pending FA. That would be significantly beneath the floor of what Tavares would return if he was put on the market and shopped around.

Pretty sure Jay Harrison was the centerpiece of that trade.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

If he's going to leave and Isles management knows this, then trading him for a good return would stop the bleeding as opposed to letting the patient bleed to death.

Well that, of course, is they key. If he tells Ledecky that he doesn't want to negotiate because he's made up his mind that he's gone, then you certainly explore trading him. But I do not see JT taking that stance AT ALL.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Insanity for those of you that thing we wouldn't get a very good return for JT should he be traded.

You think he would fetch more than a 1st, top prospect, B prospect and an average roster player?

 

[periferal]

You think he would fetch more than a 1st, top prospect, B prospect and an average roster player?

Even if he didn't, if JT was definitely going to leave I'd take that right now. A "top prospect" is someone like Barzal a year ago.

Is anyone out there telling the rest of us that IF Tavares said he was definitely leaving that you would let him walk for nothing in July?

 

[periferal]

Well that, of course, is they key. If he tells Ledecky that he doesn't want to negotiate because he's made up his mind that he's gone, then you certainly explore trading him. But I do not see JT taking that stance AT ALL.

Ah...But he has taken the stance that HE HASN'T SIGNED YET. Period. Since he hasn't signed yet...You'd be a fool to not consider that he WON'T sign when it's all said and done.

That's why I've been rabid about Isles management RESPECTFULLY giving JT/Brisson a date that if he didn't sign by that they would need to explore trading him.

Again no one...Not even Tavares...Is above the franchise.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Ah...But he has taken the stance that HE HASN'T SIGNED YET. Period. Since he hasn't signed yet...You'd be a fool to not consider that he WON'T sign when it's all said and done.

That's why I've been rabid about Isles management RESPECTFULLY giving JT/Brisson a date that if he didn't sign by that they would need to explore trading him.

Again no one...Not even Tavares...Is above the franchise.

Um, it's not "period." YOU'D be a fool to not consider the fact that there are conversations occurring between the two parties that you are not privy to. There can be a MILLION reasons why "he hasn't signed" and NYI management may be satisfied with the way talks are going. You simply have no idea. And to yell and scream for a trade (that in all likelihood will be underwhelming) of our franchise player under these circumstances is foolish.

 

[PK Cronin]

Even if he didn't, if JT was definitely going to leave I'd take that right now. A "top prospect" is someone like Barzal a year ago.

Is anyone out there telling the rest of us that IF Tavares said he was definitely leaving that you would let him walk for nothing in July?

If he says he won't sign an extension, he can be traded. However, to infer that he won't sign an extension because of x, y, or z, that would be a mistake.