Post-Game Talk: Jets lose 5-2

[GNP]

Quick thoughts:

Connor was the best forward on the ice last night, why this kid was sent down is a mystery. Ehlers was trying to do too much and got caught with a couple bad turnovers, he will learn when he can and can't do that. Little and Wheeler weren't very effective, Sheif was okay.

I actually thought our 4th line was fairly effective and had some decent zone time.

I have no idea what Matthias adds to this team. He doesn't score, he doesn't defend or PK particularly well, he's just there. Copp with a bad game. Tanev is better than I thought coming into the season but should still be 4th line/13th forward.

Poolman deserves a spot in the NHL, solid tonight. Myers was awful, Enstrom wasn't much better. Trouba and Morrisey didn't have a great night either.


As for the overall outlook of the team, I agree with the posters that say we have no identity. What kind of team are we? If you were to look at our roster you would think we have a skilled team with a solid top 6 defensemen, but watching the games you don't see that. You see a team that is often hemmed in their own zone and struggles to transition the puck up ice. Something needs to change, we're lucky to be 3-3. Unfortunately, I think the next big change is Hendricks coming in to centre the 4th line.

Your so very right on Kyle Connor - there is no way in hell, he should be sent back down to wear the Antlers !!! -- no way, and I've being saying this all along. Kyle is in the same league, and same class of player as Ehlers, and you can expect 50 points from him this year. He holds the American College league scoring title over Jack Eichel, who just signed for $ 10 million bucs. ( with the Sabres)

Does this not say something about the coaching and management, to have Kyle Connor's talent just wasted for the Moose, when the Jet's desperately need him ???

 

[Johnnucleo]

For sure, the game planning and in game adjustments are all atrocious, and are on the coach. Lines, and roster spots, also on the coach. BUT - I think most here also way overvalue some of our players. At the end of the day, we have a lot of guys on the team, that frankly are just not that great. Why they are in the lineup, or how they are being deployed/used is again, on coaching. I mean, let's pretend we are a perennial playoff team. Our forwards would like:

Ehlers-Sheif-Laine
Connor-Little-X
Perreault-X-Wheeler
Copp-Lowry-X

The guys listed are the only ones who would have roster spots on a good team, and be in those lineup spots (I think). Guys like Dano, Tanev, Matthias, Petan wouldn't sniff a roster spot on a good team. Armia - I was going to put him on the 4th line....he's a wildcard, in that he shows flashes of being really good, but his consistency is just not there.

Lowry is a 4th Line C, nothing more. I like Copp, but is 4th line. You need a "top 9" nowadays, that's why Wheeler/Perreault are 3rd line wingers on other teams, for balance. We have glaring holes on this team boys. It's not all coaching.

Matthias-Copp-Tanev, is probably the worst 3rd line in the NHL right now.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Not sure if the lines matter at this point. U can spin the team around any way you want, but it'll still be Maurice's team and his systems.

 

[Grind]

For sure, the game planning and in game adjustments are all atrocious, and are on the coach. Lines, and roster spots, also on the coach. BUT - I think most here also way overvalue some of our players. At the end of the day, we have a lot of guys on the team, that frankly are just not that great. Why they are in the lineup, or how they are being deployed/used is again, on coaching. I mean, let's pretend we are a perennial playoff team. Our forwards would like:

Ehlers-Sheif-Laine
Connor-Little-X
Perreault-X-Wheeler
Copp-Lowry-X

The guys listed are the only ones who would have roster spots on a good team, and be in those lineup spots (I think). Guys like Dano, Tanev, Matthias, Petan wouldn't sniff a roster spot on a good team. Armia - I was going to put him on the 4th line....he's a wildcard, in that he shows flashes of being really good, but his consistency is just not there.

Lowry is a 4th Line C, nothing more. I like Copp, but is 4th line. You need a "top 9" nowadays, that's why Wheeler/Perreault are 3rd line wingers on other teams, for balance. We have glaring holes on this team boys. It's not all coaching.

Matthias-Copp-Tanev, is probably the worst 3rd line in the NHL right now.

You get one agree and one disagree.

Agree: that Mathias Copp tanev line is a terrible third line incapable of anything. It's like gst 2.0

Disagree: wheeler on third line. I know he had a bad game but the dudes like a top five rw in the league. Seriously underrated.

 

[irunthepeg]

The elephant in the room right now is that this team appears to have absolutely zero identity under Maurice. It's actually worse than it was in the Noel days in terms of being able to suss out what exactly this TEAM does well, what their calling card is stylistically. I'm not talking about the individual talent on the roster, I'm talking about what the sum of their parts does on a consistent basis.

To give some degree of credit to PauMau, he did transform the Jets into a heavy forechecking, physical, space-eating team that played to its size and speed, and dominated possession as a result. That philosophy was abandoned maybe a month or so into 2015-16 (too many penalties, I guess?) and other than a brief return to it last season in February, we haven't seen it since.

@surixon made a really good point earlier in this thread, in effect that the Jets and their veterans have probably been through a few too many different visions and explanations of what Maurice wants from them stylistically.

tl;dr is "fire Maurice", but I guess my point is that it goes beyond deployment and his irrational love for Tanev. We desperately need a coach with a real vision for what the contending version of this team looks like.

I love the Like ability for posts. Very useful when I don't feel like echoing all these posts I agree with. This one just says everything to what I think almost every time I see or think about the Jets. Remember that small period of time when Maurice just started when the Jets were ON FIRE? I feel like that was just them motivated to not play for Claude anymore. But now that they're "comfortable" with Paul, you realize there's NOTHING about them that even says they're a team. They're just a group of skilled/talented individuals. No style of play for them as a whole.

I agree, for a while, we did actually have a style, at least in the offensive zone. Never felt like we did anything but scramble in our own zone.

 

[GNP]

For sure, the game planning and in game adjustments are all atrocious, and are on the coach. Lines, and roster spots, also on the coach. BUT - I think most here also way overvalue some of our players. At the end of the day, we have a lot of guys on the team, that frankly are just not that great. Why they are in the lineup, or how they are being deployed/used is again, on coaching. I mean, let's pretend we are a perennial playoff team. Our forwards would like:

Ehlers-Sheif-Laine
Connor-Little-X
Perreault-X-Wheeler
Copp-Lowry-X

The guys listed are the only ones who would have roster spots on a good team, and be in those lineup spots (I think). Guys like Dano, Tanev, Matthias, Petan wouldn't sniff a roster spot on a good team. Armia - I was going to put him on the 4th line....he's a wildcard, in that he shows flashes of being really good, but his consistency is just not there.

Lowry is a 4th Line C, nothing more. I like Copp, but is 4th line. You need a "top 9" nowadays, that's why Wheeler/Perreault are 3rd line wingers on other teams, for balance. We have glaring holes on this team boys. It's not all coaching.

Matthias-Copp-Tanev, is probably the worst 3rd line in the NHL right now.

Really great post John !!! and I "totally' agree. We need a top 9, with guys like you said. Guys like Lowry, Tanev, Mattias, should only be 4-th line guys-that's it. They are just muckers that can grind, but cannot score. Time for a change here !!!

 

[Johnnucleo]

Agreed on Wheeler, but my point was most teams deploy 3 scoring lines now, and I had to spread it out somehow with our roster to make it work. It's no different than Kessel and Marleau being on the 3rd line for their respective teams.

Also, my main point in my rant was that while coaching is a huge issue, we simply don't have the talent on this team, that most people think we do.

 

[buggs]

Was at the game last night, stayed right until the end. Easiest drive home I've ever had from a Jets game. Not good. A ton of people left with about ten minutes left, lots more after the 50-50 draw. I paid my money and I'm staying to the bitter end to get full value, no matter how painful.

Wow. We got owned by Columbus. We couldn't generate much of anything really and some nightmarish plays.

Mason - the 5th goal was terrible. The other four he could have stopped maybe 1 or 2 with being more stable in the net but realistically I'd have a hard time totally blaming him for them even then. He got hung out to dry by his team yet again. Myers has completely lost the ability to be in the right place down low. Give credit to the Jackets, they were very aggressive on the forecheck and their scoring opportunities resulted from that, so they earned the win, but some terrible giveaways by the Jets. Ick. Helle has shown better form in net but I have yet to see him get hung out the way this club is doing it to Mason.

Connor - great for the goal and definitely made a show of effort for being back up with the club. He worked very hard all game and did what was required of him but he's still lacking in 'man strength' at this point. He gets muscled pretty easily so far but that's not a big surprise and will resolve itself in time. Agree with others that he's probably best suited to playing with Little and Wheeler. For now.

Armia - again good on the PK but it seemed like he finally woke up and went back to good Armia that we saw last season; something he definitely wasn't through the first five games. I didn't think Petan and Dano played poorly as some others have said though their limitations seem to be pretty obvious. I don't see top six in any of them and that won't matter as much to Dano or Armia but it could spell trouble for Petan. I honestly thought they should have had more ice time.

Our third line looked like a fourth line and I think that's what it really is in this incarnation. Would prefer to see something like Armia Lowry Dano when Lowry comes back. Not a scoring third line but I don't think we really have the bodies to form a true scoring third line. I guess putting Perreault there instead of Dano when he returns as well does put us in that position. Roslovic might be part of the solution but he's not old and grindery so Mau won't want him up in the bottom six. Actually what am I thinking hoping for a scoring third line. Silly rabbit.

D was pretty resoundingly awful. Poolman got schooled on one goal in particular but I think he'll learn from it and given his level of experience it's ok. Enstrom was not good, he should be playing sheltered minutes. Myers was dreadful and has been thus far this season. Morrissey seems to have come around a bit but had some pretty big brain farts last night as well. Still, better play than Trouba who seems confused about his status in the NHL. Definitely a stud last season and was trending towards a great bargaining position for his next contract but he's currently playing around a low level second pairing guy. Wake up dude. Was hoping for angry Buff but not much of it. Not bad Buff, just not angry Buff.

I'm sure there were systems being played last night. I know Columbus had them. We're supposed to. Right?

 

[GNP]

Agreed on Wheeler, but my point was most teams deploy 3 scoring lines now, and I had to spread it out somehow with our roster to make it work. It's no different than Kessel and Marleau being on the 3rd line for their respective teams.

Also, my main point in my rant was that while coaching is a huge issue, we simply don't have the talent on this team, that most people think we do.

I certainly think your wrong on the talent assessment John - it is more than there, especially offensively. I think we were 3-rd in goals scored last year, with a lot of very young guys, now add Connor, and we have scoring in spades.

Also our defence is pretty damn good- it's my opinion, you just need someone to coach all this talent -"we have it" ( we'll have to agree to disagree here)

Let's not forget goaltender Helle is playing at a .937 Save Percentage, and why he didn't start against Columbus, is beyond me ??? Mason is at around .856% ( not good)

 

[Whileee]

I think that the system should be there to complement and encourage player creativity, not trying to stifle it. Tortorella's Jackets are a physical, grindy team built that way and you don't win against them by "keeping it simple". This is specifically where you need artistry, creativity and speed.


Maurice doesn't seem to think the system is an issue at all in any of the games. Always it's just "players didn't have enough effort" or some other nonsense. It's not incorrect, but think about the WHY! Maybe his "system" makes playing the game unfun and makes it difficult to get into the zone and to give it your all? Maybe they players just don't have any confidence because of it!

Problem is you need the puck before your artistry has any value. The Jets have too few players that have the speed and tenacity to get the puck back. Dano and Petan are skilled players for a fourth line, but Dano doesn't seem to be fast enough to get to the puck and Petan doesn't win battles. That's just an example. Babcock puts Hyman with skilled players because he knows you need someone who can win the puck back for skilled players.

The other problem for the Jets last night is that their D has too many puck luggers and not enough puck movers. Myers and Trouba, and to some degree Buff like to carry the puck rather than move it quickly. Enstrom is sometimes the same. That creates a bunch if problems. First, it's easier to attack with a hard and smart forecheck like the He Jackets bring. Second, it kills the transition game as your forwards wait for the puck carrying D.

The Jets need to change style or personnel on their back end to deal with this problem.

 

[sipowicz]

Thought getting rid of Thorburn, Stuart and Pavs was the answer to all the Jets problems.

Seems to me with this particular coach the team will always naturally stay at the same record of his coaching career, Mr. .500!

What is it 6 more games for Maurice to crown out his coaching resume with most losses by any NHL coach ever, what a feat, takes a real special coach to achieve that infamous milestone! Hope he gets recognized by the NHL with a ceremony on the ice with Mo reciveing a plaque at the next game after it occurs!

 

[Johnnucleo]

Enstrom - walks at the end of this year. If we aren't a playoff team, maybe we get lucky and he waives, and we trade him to a contender at the deadline. I was/is always a huge Enstrom supporter. His smart positional play always overcame his size and corner puck battle issues, BUT he has regressed badly the last two years for sure. Not Mark Stuart level regression but enough where this should be his last year in the NHL I bet. He'll go to Sweden next year, bank on it.

Myers - Yikes. He looked decent in the preseason, and I was so excited to have him back healthy for this year, but holy mama has he been awful. Due to his injury issues, not sure we could find a trade partner, but if this keeps up we need to package him up with Petan and/or Dano and maybe another prospect or pick and get a decent 4/5 D man.

 

[Guerzy]

I love the Like ability for posts. Very useful when I don't feel like echoing all these posts I agree with. This one just says everything to what I think almost every time I see or think about the Jets. Remember that small period of time when Maurice just started when the Jets were ON FIRE? I feel like that was just them motivated to not play for Claude anymore. But now that they're "comfortable" with Paul, you realize there's NOTHING about them that even says they're a team. They're just a group of skilled/talented individuals. No style of play for them as a whole.

I agree, for a while, we did actually have a style, at least in the offensive zone. Never felt like we did anything but scramble in our own zone.

The only catch for me is when Maurice just started and the team looked good (finished 18-12-5), the only players on the roster today that were here then are: Wheeler, Little, Scheifele, Byfuglien, Trouba, Enstrom. If we go to 2014-15, the players on the roster then still here now include: Wheeler, Little, Scheifele, Byfuglien, Trouba, Enstrom, Perreault, Lowry, Myers, Chiarot.

So.. who's the problem? Who is making things too comfortable? Who is not motivating the room? Who is holding them back from becoming a "team"? Then there is our abysmal PK, 5on5 play, etc. So many things on the ice with this team is just so damn lousy and inconsistent. Continuous bad reads. Don't get me wrong, it's on the players, 100%. But I also think it's on Maurice, big time. And maybe I am too hard on Paul because i've seen plenty of this stuff before in Carolina x 2. But I cannot help but think this team is going nowhere with Paul Maurice at the helm.

Maybe I am a sucker, but I do like this roster and I do think it is good enough. But I wouldn't be against a coaching change AND roster move or two to shake the room up, air things out. Perhaps an offensive guy for the third line would be nice. For the most part, I just can't bring myself to think this roster isn't good enough. I think if you put Darryl Sutter behind this bench today, I bet we see this scrambled group come together as a team and put up results. I think the players like and respect Maurice, but for whatever the reason(s) he can't right the ship. Sutter has 2 cups in the last 5 seasons leading up to this one. Yes he likely has a shelf life; every coach does. But I think Sutter gets this team to the top. I think he could bring a high element of defensive fundamentals but also see that he has a very potent offensive unit to utilize. I think he would bring the best of both worlds out of this roster and I don't think it would just be a short-term burst because a new coach is here.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

Interesting place here.

I certainly share some of the angst here about the teams start but I've found it interesting with never ending confirmation biases that go on here regarding the coaching staff.

I said I was going to give PoMo until the 20 game mark and that still stands. Haven't been impressed with the results yet. I'm also not lighting my hair on fire and running around in circles.

I guess I end up defending PoMo fairly often because this place just becomes an echo chamber of what I find to be poorly formed arguments. It's been decided that PoMo and the coaching staff is the only problem with this team.

It's tiring to read after every single game that our coach got out coached. The f***ing players also got out played. I find it incredible to see the number of NHL systems experts that have been around/created over the last half a year when that became the thing to bitch about. I understand that some have a high level of knowledge but let's be honest it's not the majority.

There was a lot of instances last year where post after post would lament our D zone systems claiming that's why we weren't good when the truth was our CA and Chances against were average at worst. It was our D zone systems ability to stiffle our own offense that was really the culprit of our CF% woes.

Thats one of the reasons why I'm often found defending the coaching staff (there are plenty more in this same vein however). I'm not peticularly fond of the results from PoMo this year to date. Especially in the PK department which was one of my hot buttons this year but things like the line deployment and player usage have been nowhere near as bad as it sounds by reading here. For instance I'm really surprised that free Dano speaches stop after he takes dumb penalties but the penalties never get addressed by those advocating he deserves more ice time.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

You can skate a 100 miles a hour and accomplish nothing

 

[Board Bard]

I don't get it, but then again, I don't get paid to coach an NHL team.

Neither does Maurice. He gets paid to pretend to coach an NHL team.

 

[MrWigglez]

Honest question for the mob - Why is Nic Petan still a member of this organisation?

In theory he is a small/speedy/scoring threat, but hes currently on the bottom line which PoMo plays like a heavy hitting zero skill 90's style line. He's lower on the depth chart than guys like Connor, Lemieux, and even Tanev.

For the longest time people were saying "if he got to play in the top 6 he could really do something" - its become clear that he will NEVER play on the Winnipeg Jets top 6 while PoMo is in town. So why is he still a Jet? Other than the fact this org has killed any value he once had and they probably couldn't give him away at this point.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Honest question for the mob - Why is Nic Petan still a member of this organisation?

In theory he is a small/speedy/scoring threat, but hes currently on the bottom line which PoMo plays like a heavy hitting zero skill 90's style line. He's lower on the depth chart than guys like Connor, Lemieux, and even Tanev.

For the longest time people were saying "if he got to play in the top 6 he could really do something" - its become clear that he will NEVER play on the Winnipeg Jets top 6 while PoMo is in town. So why is he still a Jet? Other than the fact this org has killed any value he once had and they probably couldn't give him away at this point.

With a modern coach and a modern play style, there would probably be a place for Petan. Yup.

 

[Grind]

Agreed on Wheeler, but my point was most teams deploy 3 scoring lines now, and I had to spread it out somehow with our roster to make it work. It's no different than Kessel and Marleau being on the 3rd line for their respective teams.

Also, my main point in my rant was that while coaching is a huge issue, we simply don't have the talent on this team, that most people think we do.

I still think theirs the opportunity to salvage something with all this garbage.

Petan and dano have historically played well as spare pieces with strong duos.

We keep trotting out the exact same set up that we did last year and the year before expecting it to just change.

Why not get a little while, and plug petan and dano into roles as spare pieces?

This is gonna get wild:

Connor scheifele wheeler
Ehlers Petan Laine
Perraults little dano
Mathias. Lowry armia


I mean, whatever we're doing now isn't working, why not get crazy, and pretty much run even ice time across the top nine.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Tyler Myers was awful last night. He has not been good. I don't know the details of his injury, but I am now starting to believe that he is not the guy we thought we got in 2015. It could be that either he was damaged goods waiting to happen, or the injury he sustained with the Jets has changed him forever. He deserves more time to show what he has got, so I am am still optimistic that it is just rust that is really thick and he will get his game back. But the clock is ticking.

Buffalo is looking pretty good on that trade right now.

 

[TannedBum]

Armia - again good on the PK but it seemed like he finally woke up and went back to good Armia that we saw last season; something he definitely wasn't through the first five games. I didn't think Petan and Dano played poorly as some others have said though their limitations seem to be pretty obvious. I don't see top six in any of them and that won't matter as much to Dano or Armia but it could spell trouble for Petan. I honestly thought they should have had more ice time.

He never went to sleep. MLA was the only line that worked in the opener. After that he was dropped to 4th line and out of PK for no reason. He was basically put to sleep for one game.

 

[ijuka]

I just came up with some absolutely genius line combinations:

Connor-Scheifele-Laine
Petan-Little-Ehlers
Perreault-Lowry-Wheeler

I know, I know. They're just amazing. 3 scoring lines.

 

[Jets 31]

Hey Hawerchuk , you busy ? Want a job coaching a young skilled hockey team ? This would be me on the phone right now if i was Chipman , oh and bring your own assistant coaches as well .

 

[Afterburner]

Yeah Mo can't hide his poor coaching behind scheduling and injuries anymore. He just plain sucks.

 

[GNP]

Hey Hawerchuk , you busy ? Want a job coaching a young skilled hockey team ? This would be me on the phone right now if i was Chipman , oh and bring your own assistant coaches as well .

I just may make that phone call to Patrick Roy- he'll shake things up !!! I think he had Colorado in the playoffs his first year. Maybe he's learned how to control his temper ? and not throw temper tantrums anymore ??? Fiercely intense guy though, and the Jet's could get a lot of mileage out of him. I'd take the chance on Roy-2 years !!! be fun