Speculation: Jets-Islanders...Hamonic-Trouba

[BrianFromAIH]

No.

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[Gargyn]

I know points don't mean mean a whole lot but Hamonic will probably average out at 5 goals and 15 to 20 assists while providing solid defence. I can see Trouba averaging around 10 goals, 30 assist while providing the same level of defence. Hamonic just doesn't have the same offensive skills...not by far. So no way Winnipeg touches that deal.

 

[Whileee]

Sean Bergenheim. He had to play overseas and then came back the next season for the Isles.

Now that Wang is no longer in charge, not sure this policy is still in play though.

You can do that with a player like Bergenheim, but not with a really good player. I really doubt that the Isles would do that with a stud player, unless they don't care about winning.

Related to contracts, it is true that Hamonic is on a very good deal. However, he's 25 and only signed for the next 4 years. I think the Jets would want to lock Trouba up for 7-8 more years, and would be willing to pay in terms of AAV to get there. If Hamonic maintains a high level of play through this contract, he'll be commanding $7M+ as a UFA after 4 years. At that time, the Jets will be needing to pay players like Ehlers, Connor and Laine on their second contracts and would then like to have Trouba at $6M or less, instead of trying to re-sign Hamonic at $7M+.

 

[CupHolders]

You can do that with a player like Bergenheim, but not with a really good player. I really doubt that the Isles would do that with a stud player, unless they don't care about winning.

Related to contracts, it is true that Hamonic is on a very good deal. However, he's 25 and only signed for the next 4 years. I think the Jets would want to lock Trouba up for 7-8 more years, and would be willing to pay in terms of AAV to get there. If Hamonic maintains a high level of play through this contract, he'll be commanding $7M+ as a UFA after 4 years. At that time, the Jets will be needing to pay players like Ehlers, Connor and Laine on their second contracts and would then like to have Trouba at $6M or less, instead of trying to re-sign Hamonic at $7M+.

They did it to Isbister and Chara the very first year the policy was instituted. Ultimately, the Isles relented only after Vanbiesbrouck asked Wang to give them another chance... and said players had to accept the Isles last offer.

This policy was established before the salary cap... in an era where there seemed to be more holdouts. That's an anecdotal observation... I have no stats to back that up. Personally, I like the policy... there should be no reason for a player not to be signed for training camp. At some point both parties have to come to an understanding of "final offer."

 

[LeapOnOver]

My issue with a Trouba for Hamonic swap, is that sources like E. Friedman indicate Trouba will be a difficult signing, that he wants to be paid more for his potential then actual on ice accomplishments.
And don't dismiss the rep and MO of Trouba's agent, who has had several other rfa clients involved in drawn out and messy contract battles.

I would love to have Trouba, think he has terrific upside, but not would not give up Hamonic signed for 4 more yrs ( with a $3.8m caphit).
Too much risk in a holdout imo.

Definitely a concern, but I was just trying to focus on facts than rumors. I don't think any GM is going to trade for Trouba if they get the sense that he's going to be difficult to negotiate with unless they are 100% sure they are just going to pay him a boatload (ie Buffalo and O'Reilly). It's a fair concern though.

 

[LeapOnOver]

You can do that with a player like Bergenheim, but not with a really good player. I really doubt that the Isles would do that with a stud player, unless they don't care about winning.

Related to contracts, it is true that Hamonic is on a very good deal. However, he's 25 and only signed for the next 4 years. I think the Jets would want to lock Trouba up for 7-8 more years, and would be willing to pay in terms of AAV to get there. If Hamonic maintains a high level of play through this contract, he'll be commanding $7M+ as a UFA after 4 years. At that time, the Jets will be needing to pay players like Ehlers, Connor and Laine on their second contracts and would then like to have Trouba at $6M or less, instead of trying to re-sign Hamonic at $7M+.

Would have happened to Nelson. It's a team policy and it's not really that different than Lamoriello telling players they can't pick high jersey numbers. I don't think there is anything wrong with it either. You are an RFA, at a certain point in time you have to accept an offer the team thinks is fair or not play. No reason to have contract negotiations going on when you should be focusing on the season (unless you are resigning a soon to be UFA).

Not sure if it will still be in place though with the new owners.

 

[urbanshocker]

I've said this on multiple occasions to my own Islander fans. Trouba is absolutely as good as Hamonic right now, maybe even a little bit better. Advanced stats echo this. I would have been thrilled if Trouba was the return for Hamonic back when we seemed to be forced to make a trade. However, the fact that Hamonic has such a great salary and Trouba will almost certainly make more in his next contract puts their value much closer to even.

I'd like to sum up these thought by saying, yes I think Trouba is a little bit better than Hamonic. Yes, I think the value is similar and Jets definitely wouldn't have to add to get the trade. No, I don't think the Jets would be smart making that trade with Trouba's ceiling.

Part of the reason Hamonic's value is sky high in Islander's fans minds is because of his draft position and him far exceeding his ceiling, however, that doesn't mean he's suddenly better than Trouba. Trouba was a higher draft pick, with a higher ceiling and is still developing. Hamonic's proven a valuable draft pick where he was selected. That's where the conversation should stop though.

This is kind of why I started this thread. I feel Trouba will either sign a bridge around 4, to his ufa slightly over that, max about 5.5.

Whichever he signs for has a huge impact.

Well stated, leaponover.

Having said that, if the Jets sign Trouba for 4.5 x 2, who should give something up?

 

[Evil Little]

Just...stop.

 

[Isles72]

Pulock >>Trouba

Boychuk>>Eberle

 

[Maukkis]

Pulock >>Trouba

...and there goes your credibility.

 

[LeapOnOver]

This is kind of why I started this thread. I feel Trouba will either sign a bridge around 4, to his ufa slightly over that, max about 5.5.

Whichever he signs for has a huge impact.

Well stated, leaponover.

Having said that, if the Jets sign Trouba for 4.5 x 2, who should give something up?

Well, if the Jets had Trouba signed at 4.5 x 2, removing emotion I think the Islanders would need a small add. Nothing major, like a 2nd round pick or B prospect like Mayfield or Quine. 2 years at 4.5 is inviting, but still 2 years away from big money. Hamonic is locked up until 2020 at a cap hit of less than 4 million. So his contract is still an amazing value. It's truly a work of art, lol and I marvel at Snows ability to get guys locked up like that. Really shows Hamonic's loyalty to the team. In fact, I think the value is still really close. I think the Isles only need to add if Trouba gets something like 4.5 for 4 years. Now we are talking about more value, but I can't imagine Trouba signing for that. I agree what you say about Trouba taking a bridge deal if he can't get a 5.5m commitment from the Jets. Heck, if we really does want a pay day he'll take the bridge deal regardless and then cash in big time after two years. He's in a pretty good spot if he keeps playing the way he does.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, think Hamonic will be staying with the Islanders.

 

[Whileee]

Well, if the Jets had Trouba signed at 4.5 x 2, removing emotion I think the Islanders would need a small add. Nothing major, like a 2nd round pick or B prospect like Mayfield or Quine. 2 years at 4.5 is inviting, but still 2 years away from big money. Hamonic is locked up until 2020 at a cap hit of less than 4 million. So his contract is still an amazing value. It's truly a work of art, lol and I marvel at Snows ability to get guys locked up like that. Really shows Hamonic's loyalty to the team. In fact, I think the value is still really close. I think the Isles only need to add if Trouba gets something like 4.5 for 4 years. Now we are talking about more value, but I can't imagine Trouba signing for that. I agree what you say about Trouba taking a bridge deal if he can't get a 5.5m commitment from the Jets. Heck, if we really does want a pay day he'll take the bridge deal regardless and then cash in big time after two years. He's in a pretty good spot if he keeps playing the way he does.

Didn't Snow just give Ladd $5.5M x 7 years?

I think you are really overvaluing AAV and not term. Trouba on a 4 year deal is pretty terrible because you basically lose him to UFA at his prime age. That's why most teams are trying to lock up good young D on long-term contracts coming out of their entry-level contract. Lock them up until 29 or 30 years of age and you will have gotten them at a decent cost during their prime years, instead of paying them their biggest contract for years beyond their prime (like Ladd).

 

[JetsHomer]

Pulock >>Trouba

Pulock is only 8 months younger than Trouba and has 15 career NHL games. Trouba has 211 as a proven top 4 NHL defenseman

 

[Isles72]

Pulock is only 8 months younger than Trouba and has 15 career NHL games. Trouba has 211 as a proven top 4 NHL defenseman

I'm not looking to rip off the jets ; just looking for alternatives considering its trade proposal forum & isles fans believe hamonic is off the table .

 

[JetsHomer]

I'm not looking to rip off the jets ; just looking for alternatives considering its trade proposal forum & isles fans believe hamonic is off the table .

Pulock would be a nice add-on for a package to get Trouba. What's the main piece that has more value than Pulock that you are also adding to even up the value?

 

[GoJetsGo55]

I'm not looking to rip off the jets ; just looking for alternatives considering its trade proposal forum & isles fans believe hamonic is off the table .

How is Pulock worth more than Trouba?

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

OMG. I just heard a Lawless interview and he said Trouba is a top 4 defenceman. What an insult to the great Jacob Trouba!

Gary Lawless is a fat moron.

 

[CupHolders]

How is Pulock worth more than Trouba?

Easy! Parallel universes and multiple realities. In one such possible future, Pulock goes on to be the greatest defenseman since Bobby Orr. The other 99.999999999999999999..... possibilities he does not.

Yeah... maybe I should disable my account for the summer.

 

[CodeE]

How is Pulock worth more than Trouba?

Quite easily if Trouba's contract demands are as high as rumored. Pulock has two ELC years left so it's quite fair to think a lot of teams would prefer the cheaper option.

 

[Hunter368]

Pulock >>Trouba

Boychuk>>Eberle

Yikes

 

[Maukkis]

Quite easily if Trouba's contract demands are as high as rumored. Pulock has two ELC years left so it's quite fair to think a lot of teams would prefer the cheaper option.

I love this mentality. Every young players suddenly turns into worthless crap as soon as their ELC ends and they start getting paid. They get their money because they are quality players. Pulock is very far from being what Trouba is.

If the number one priority in choosing a player is their contract, you'll end up having a piss poor roster full of youngsters who can't carry the team themselves. Contracts don't win games, players do.

 

[JetsHomer]

Quite easily if Trouba's contract demands are as high as rumored. Pulock has two ELC years left so it's quite fair to think a lot of teams would prefer the cheaper option.

lol. The cheaper option who is the same age but who has 200 less NHL games played?

 

[CodeE]

Even though Ryan O'Reilly is the better player, I'm sure many teams would rather trade for the 26-year-old Anders Lee at a reasonable $3.75M than 25-year-old O'Reilly at $7.5M.

If I'm Las Vegas and I'm building a team from scratch, yeah sure I might be more inclined to take ROR as my #1C. But most teams tend to take what a player makes into consideration in judging a player's value.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Quite easily if Trouba's contract demands are as high as rumored. Pulock has two ELC years left so it's quite fair to think a lot of teams would prefer the cheaper option.

Oh damn well then you can send us Doughty for Enstrom.