Post-Game Talk: Jets hold on, win 2:1

Howard Chuck

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Agreed, that if MP is out and Connor is called up E-S-L and C-L-W make the most sense. Also agree on the backend. Poolman as #7 is far better depth than we ever had.
I missed the third period so likely the best jets play. Glad to have everyone's updates.

With MP out, I would look for your top six as well. Which is what I was hoping for off the start this year.

Nice to have depth front and back this year..... and three in a row already!
 

Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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With Petan and Dano on the bench Tanev finished in MPs spot. Now I may agree that Tanev has done enough to play fourth line but to see him out there the last three minutes was painful, he threw the puck back in his zone where he could've went up the wall, this hemmed us in, then he runs at their D man in a straight line, the guy side steps him and Helly had to bail him out with a big glove save. Why on earth would he be out there that late!?
He was playing better than the other options, to be honest.
 
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Aavco Cup

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With Petan and Dano on the bench Tanev finished in MPs spot. Now I may agree that Tanev has done enough to play fourth line but to see him out there the last three minutes was painful, he threw the puck back in his zone where he could've went up the wall, this hemmed us in, then he runs at their D man in a straight line, the guy side steps him and Helly had to bail him out with a big glove save. Why on earth would he be out there that late!?

Tyler Myers made decisions/passes that hemmed us in all game

IMG_3507.jpg
 

Snot Rocket

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Feb 3, 2013
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Just got home from the game and feeling pumped with a 3 game win streak. Was wearing my Ehlers jersey and loving his game. Helly was fantastic. And the people in the arena sure like Tanev more than this board. We now have won a couple games we probably wouldn't have last season.

[mod]
[mod]
As long as the boys end up in the W column, I don't care if it was a finger painting.
I would have concerns if every game was like that...but they played 7 of 9 periods of good hockey for the most part.
 
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Airsmail

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Some interesting stats, compiled by hockeystats.com.

5v5 Scoring Chances Differential:

Vs.

Leafs -3
Flames -5
Oilers +9
Canucks +14
Canes -1

Season to date.... +14

This tends to comport with my viewing of the Jets' play. They have been reasonably good at limiting scoring chances, and tend not to shoot from low danger areas. In contrast, the Canucks just put the puck toward the net at any chance, seldom even looking to make a play. The Canes were more like that, too.

This is a very different team, and many of the forwards ate going to be looking for plays rather than taking shots. Similarly, the D are inclined to dump the puck behind the net if they don't have a good shot opportunity. I'm not sure if this will result in better outcomes, but time will tell.
Interesting post. I want to believe this means something, since by the "eye test" and corsi, we have often let the other team control play.
But my understanding was that: 1) scoring chances are very subjective with difficulty agreeing on criteria, making them less of a hard stat than corsi; 2) sample size becomes much smaller, especially over 5 games, making it less predictive.
 

Guffman

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Apr 7, 2016
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When Trouba signs Myers should be first guy outve town with the emergence of Poolman.
Edit: so why was Petan not playing then?

I wouldn’t be so hasty to jettison Myers until we see where his game is at after this season.

Maybe it’s Buff that gets traded if we do sign Trouba long-term.
 

Guffman

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Update:

Goals16-1717-18
5v5 w/ Scheifele,Little107-9310-6
5v5 w/o Scheifele,Little49-711-5
PP and SH58-714-6
other (4v4, 3v3, EN)32-201-1
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

BTW, thanks for doing these. I am curious how that measures up to other teams 5 v 5 play with their top two lines versus bottom two lines.
 

mcpw

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Jan 13, 2015
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BTW, thanks for doing these. I am curious how that measures up to other teams 5 v 5 play with their top two lines versus bottom two lines.

16-17 for some teams with clear-cut "top6" centers (quick and dirty so some numbers may be off a bit due to situations when both centers are on the ice at the same time):

TeamWithGDWithoutGD
WPG Scheifele/Little107-93+1449-71-22
LAK Kopitar/Carter84-81+343-52-9
VAN Sedin/Horvat84-95-1144-63-19
OTT Turris/Brassard91-84 +7 44-57 -13
BOS Bergeron/Krejci101-98 +3 41-49 -8
FLA Barkov/Trocheck87-78 +9 43-82 -39
PIT Crosby/Malkin114-81 +3371-69 +2
CGY Monahan/Backlund88-79+952-65-13
CHI Toews/Anisimov90-73+1774-65+11
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 
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sipowicz

The thrill is gone
Mar 16, 2011
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Line of the night comes from Paul Maurice in the presser, on Buff: “his game was completely under control tonight”, pretty sure Maurice would have liked to add for change!?!
 

Dayofthedogs

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Feb 20, 2016
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I like the concept Bogo, but Lowry cannot score and belongs only on the PK, and on the 4-th line. I like to have a "sniper" on all 3 lines, along with one "playmaker" -"something like this"

Line 1- Ehlers --- Scheifele -Perrault

Line 2- Laine -- Little ----- Wheeler

Line 3 Connor-- Petan -- Armia or Copp

The way I see a 3 Line team working is at least one playmaker, and one "sniper" on all 3 lines. This would be the ideal setup. ( or something very similar)

I think your third line would spend most of its time digging pucks out of the back of its net.

He did enough to be one of our best shot metric forwards in a game when that wasn't a strong point for the team
 

ecolad

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Nov 17, 2015
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I've expressed my skepticism about Maurice, but still think it's too early to decide if he'll be able to coach this team to success. Yes, he's had a mediocre record, but he's also had a string of bad teams with bad goalies to coach. My main concern is whether he'll know how to coach a very young, skilled team in a winning style. It's not like he can't coach a team to high shot metrics - the Jets were top 10 in 2014/15 under his coaching. They played a hard driving straight line style with lots of pucks toward the net.

This is a different group of players, that are much more creative and favour holding on to the puck looking for a better scoring chance. I found the contrast in styles with the Canes interesting. The Canes tended to put a lot of shots toward the net, even if they were low danger. Even on the PP as soon as the Canes had any lane, they put pucks toward the net. This is reflected in scoring chances, which were charted as equal by hockeystats.com. In contrast, the Jets tend to try to hold the puck and move it around, looking for good scoring chances, with few of their forwards crashing the net, especially in their top six.

My guess is that Maurice is deliberately drilling a puck possession game, and defensively focusing on positional play without the puck, with "safe" plays to try to clear the zone. Their defensive play has looked much more organized after the first couple of games, though their work with the puck has been poor.

Generally, I wasn't as bummed about the game last night because their D tended to give Hellebuyck a chance to deal with the shots, and they tended to be in good position to limit second chances.

Now, I think they need to be better at moving the puck crisply out of the zone. That's not a strength of players like Myers and Trouba, and even Buff, who all like to skate the puck out. Morrissey is much better. Poolman is also good at this.

Good post Whileee. I must say that you`ve been very consistent in expressing your thoughts vis the bolded. But I really have to ask - just what is it that you`re looking for that will permit you to make a final determination on this matter? And I ask this in complete sincerity because my own thoughts are so conflicted at times.

It seems self evident that a young/skilled/fast team should play an uptempo aggressive offensive style,within the top9 structure so predominate nowadays. It also seems self evident that such team should generate their offense from transitional quick breakout/counter attacks in the neutral zone/controlled zone entries, complemented of course with high pressure forecheck that leads to turnovers. With this approach to 5v5 hockey, specialty teams should be similarly aggressive, to disrupt the other team from setting up and attacking with purpose.

Trouble is ,Maurice has a vision that is almost the complete antithesis of all this. There has been no adjustment from the philosophy brought in when first hired and we now have the young,skilled team challenged to conform with his conservative,"safe" approach in all zones. We may win more than we lose, but IMO we will not harvest the true talents of this team, and will not rise to the level of consistent playoff contender. Far more likely, we will become part of the murky middle.
 

Guffman

Registered User
Apr 7, 2016
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16-17 for some teams with clear-cut "top6" centers (quick and dirty so some numbers may be off a bit due to situations when both centers are on the ice at the same time):

TeamWithGDWithoutGD
WPG Scheifele/Little107-93+1449-71-22
LAK Kopitar/Carter84-81+343-52-9
VAN Sedin/Horvat84-95-1144-63-19
OTT Turris/Brassard91-84 +7 44-57 -13
BOS Bergeron/Krejci101-98 +3 41-49 -8
FLA Barkov/Trocheck87-78 +9 43-82 -39
PIT Crosby/Malkin114-81 +3371-69 +2
CGY Monahan/Backlund88-79+952-65-13
CHI Toews/Anisimov90-73+1774-65+11
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Thanks again. Certainly, a team with a great top two lines , like the Jets, will have a greater disparity relative to the bottom two lines (36 goals).

I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not. It could simply be what it is.
 

Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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Good post Whileee. I must say that you`ve been very consistent in expressing your thoughts vis the bolded. But I really have to ask - just what is it that you`re looking for that will permit you to make a final determination on this matter? And I ask this in complete sincerity because my own thoughts are so conflicted at times.

It seems self evident that a young/skilled/fast team should play an uptempo aggressive offensive style,within the top9 structure so predominate nowadays. It also seems self evident that such team should generate their offense from transitional quick breakout/counter attacks in the neutral zone/controlled zone entries, complemented of course with high pressure forecheck that leads to turnovers. With this approach to 5v5 hockey, specialty teams should be similarly aggressive, to disrupt the other team from setting up and attacking with purpose.

Trouble is ,Maurice has a vision that is almost the complete antithesis of all this. There has been no adjustment from the philosophy brought in when first hired and we now have the young,skilled team challenged to conform with his conservative,"safe" approach in all zones. We may win more than we lose, but IMO we will not harvest the true talents of this team, and will not rise to the level of consistent playoff contender. Far more likely, we will become part of the murky middle.
Well, the simplest answer is, "do they win?". If Maurice gets this team to win consistently and perform well in the playoffs, then we'll need to try to analyze how he's contributed to that. Conversely, if they don't become a winner with all this young talent, then we can look at his specific coaching deficits.

From a less generic perspective, here are some of the concerns I have had...

1) Roster composition and usage - I have had big concerns that Maurice has a tendency to fall back on vets and grinders who he can evaluate clearly in terms of them following the X's and O's set out by the coaches, with the addition of "gritty" team-oriented plays (hits, blocks, fights, etc.). His over-use of Stuart and Harrison on D, and Thorbs and others up front are "Exhibit A". Some of my concerns have been blunted somewhat since the Jets have jettisoned Stuart, Thorbs, Peluso and gone with a line-up that has players like Petan and Dano on the bottom line. However, I still have concerns that he "slots" players into roles excessively. Maybe I'm wrong and that's a rational approach, given the various skillsets and game situations, but this is an area of concern. I also think that Maurice tends to overplay his top players, which can wear them out. I think it's partly a lack of confidence in some of his younger players, but he'll need to balance this out.

2) Playing style - Maurice had considerable success coaching a high-pressure, straight line style with the Jets in 2014/15. The Jets focused more on dumping and puck pursuit and pressure, rather than on controlled zone entries, creativity in their play, etc. I think that the current version plays a style that is more creative, but it tends to lack structure, so the Jets can end up getting into trouble against more structured teams (especially if they are quick). I have also had concerns with the Jets really porous D zone coverage. Some of that might be on the players, but it's been a problem. However, I have seen some positive signs in the past 3 games. The Jets were very good at covering danger areas and mopping up loose pucks in the cylinder out from their goal.

3) Discipline / effort / training - I have been critical that Maurice over-trains his team, and this hurts them early in the season. I think it's part of an old-style discipline, that also includes being a bit softer on vets than younger players. I do think that the team gives a good effort most nights and clearly isn't anywhere close to quitting on Maurice, which is a good sign. The Jets lack of discipline with penalties is a huge issue, and I'm not sure how much of that is coaching, and how much is just the character of his core of players. This season, it's been the same vets that have been the problem (Wheeler, Buff, Perreault, Trouba). The young players actually tend to be playing with reasonable control.

4) Goalie usage - I think Maurice was horrendous in his handling of Hellebuyck last season. Pulling him 5 times probably contributed to undermining his confidence. Thankfully, Hellebuyck seems to be pretty solid this season, so perhaps not lasting damage. But I really didn't like how Maurice managed young goalies.

Anyway, that's a short list.
 
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Blue Shakehead

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Good post Whileee. I must say that you`ve been very consistent in expressing your thoughts vis the bolded. But I really have to ask - just what is it that you`re looking for that will permit you to make a final determination on this matter? And I ask this in complete sincerity because my own thoughts are so conflicted at times.

It seems self evident that a young/skilled/fast team should play an uptempo aggressive offensive style,within the top9 structure so predominate nowadays. It also seems self evident that such team should generate their offense from transitional quick breakout/counter attacks in the neutral zone/controlled zone entries, complemented of course with high pressure forecheck that leads to turnovers. With this approach to 5v5 hockey, specialty teams should be similarly aggressive, to disrupt the other team from setting up and attacking with purpose.

Trouble is ,Maurice has a vision that is almost the complete antithesis of all this. There has been no adjustment from the philosophy brought in when first hired and we now have the young,skilled team challenged to conform with his conservative,"safe" approach in all zones. We may win more than we lose, but IMO we will not harvest the true talents of this team, and will not rise to the level of consistent playoff contender. Far more likely, we will become part of the murky middle.

Good post. It seems to me that Maurice is always thinking defense first. Thats why Lowry is the staple 3C and its why Tanev was elevated to play with Laine/Little instead of someone who can actually play hockey. But when you have weapons like Laine/Scheifele/Ehlers/Wheeler and you're playing a team that has Jordan Staal as the 1C and only one or two forwards (Aho/Skinner) that could crack our top 6, I don't understand why you want to play prevent defense.

The great hope is that Maurice will start adopting a more offensive style once he is comfortable that the defensive structure is taken care of. I believe that was sort of how it played out in 2014-15, but that Kane/Frolik/Ladd team lent itself to Maurice's style way more than our current skilled lineup. That is the optimistic view and its 3 seasons ago.
 
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kxx

the great southern threadkill
Feb 21, 2015
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I can't stand Maurice at all and I thought we played quite poorly last night but I like seeing Hellebuyck do well and I really prefer winning to losing. Otherwise a boring, concerning game hopefully won't become a trend. But winning good so can't REALLY complain. :amazed:
 

TorJet

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Jun 27, 2016
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The more I watch Laine, the clearer it becomes he needs a skilled table setter. As defences have become more aware and focused on him, he seems to struggle to make his own space to get his shot off except on the PP.

To me, the jets have two guys that fit the bill: Ehlers and Scheif. Speedy, skilled guys who are themselves a scoring threat but also skilled playmakers. Yet we have them on the same line. I’d be interested in seeing either Laine - Little - Ehlers or Laine - Scheif - Wheeler as I think it would be beneficial to have ehlers and 55 on separate lines to spread the speedy-sniper-playmakers around. We need a legit sniper to draw defenders away from Laine on his line.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
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I think the whole Maurice overtrains the team is old news. The team was scheduled to practice today but decided not to. Things have changed since he got here in this area
 

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