Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part IV

[Aavco Cup]

Hmmmm. Are we trying to trade Clitsome?

@CJOBSports: #NHLJets HC Paul Maurice says Clitsome needs to prove in practice he is better than the guys in the lineup, says he didn't in training camp.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In Chipman's interview with Patterson and Lawless he said--I paraphrase: 'we want to make the playoffs this year, but... [something something sacrificing the future]'. To me this sends a much different message from 'we want to make the playoffs this year [full stop]'.

I think the media has picked up on some just-make-the-playoffs-already goal, but the organization has bigger, and yes, more difficult and longer-term, plans.

[Hilariously, on Hockey Central last night ****ing-dip**** P.J. Stock and the weaselly-professor guy both said basically that the organization is patient and improving and also Atlanta's cupboards, et cetera, meanwhile Leah Hextall was spouting the '5 year plan' nonsense that I've been unable to trace back to True North. So, maybe it's the local media as opposed to the media in general.]

This gets back to the issue of the media, local or otherwise apparently not being willing (for whatever reason) to ask hard, or maybe just specific questions. When do you want to make the play-offs will always be answered with an emphatic 'now, this year'. When do you expect, or plan, or will you make a sacrifice to make the play-offs will bring some vague 'when the time is right' answer. That requires some follow-up questioning like 'how will you know when the time is right' or 'what are you going to do to make the time right'. Another question that I have never heard asked is 'how many years of consecutively missing the play-offs will be too many'.

I could easily come up with another half-dozen questions that are not being asked. This is why we keep seeing posts questioning the lack of a plan or the lack of a direction. Chevy never said there was a 5 year plan. Chevy never said anything else about the mythical plan either except to say that the plan is to draft & develop. Apparently forever. If there is more detail to 'the plan' I don't think it has ever been made public.

 

[Jet]

saw that exchange on twitter...it was aggravating. toth comes from the gord steeves school of debating: just make **** up.

He's the worst. When I was 'debating' Pavelec with him he didn't even seem to have a child's grasp of what makes a goalie good, and why nearly anyone who knows their hockey can see his shortcomings.

I believe that he has come around now that msm finally questions Pavelec's ability instead of getting all giddy when he makes a great save.

FTR I really thought Pavelec looked good last night. He was square, and controlled his rebounds exceptionally well.

 

[truck]

In Chipman's interview with Patterson and Lawless he said--I paraphrase: 'we want to make the playoffs this year, but... [something something sacrificing the future]'. To me this sends a much different message from 'we want to make the playoffs this year [full stop]'.

I was going to say something similar to this. I heard that interview and got the impression that he didn't see the Jets as a playoff team at that point that he was cool with it.

 

[truck]

But where do Jets management realistically expect the team to be by then? Perhaps they have different expectations than their public stance of wanting to be a playoff team. But maybe they actually believe it.

I would hope that they aren't far off base in their assessment. Chevy has said in the past that the Jets have a group that should be capable of making the playoffs, despite the fact that they quite clearly (IMO) didn't scared me more than any transaction ever.

If he truly believes they somehow become a contender without drastically improving team talent, then the Jets have a problem.

 

[Jet]

I was going to say something similar to this. I heard that interview and got the impression that he didn't see the Jets as a playoff team at that point that he was cool with it.

Well if that is the case then what is the long view?

I don't agree with just moving every vet we have because then you have an Oilers situation with a bunch of kids and no decent mentors to bring them along. However, if one of your older assets can fetch you a good young player that aligns with your core better then I think you should do it if you are accepting that playoffs are not in the cards.

Byfuglien to me is the guy to go. I know he's very well liked and I remember hearing how good he is to the young ones but we have a lot of good vets to mentor the kids. I still think trading him to the Oilers for one of their young skill guys is a very good fit for both teams.

 

[truck]

Well if that is the case then what is the long view?

I don't agree with just moving every vet we have because then you have an Oilers situation with a bunch of kids and no decent mentors to bring them along. However, if one of your older assets can fetch you a good young player that aligns with your core better then I think you should do it if you are accepting that playoffs are not in the cards.

Byfuglien to me is the guy to go. I know he's very well liked and I remember hearing how good he is to the young ones but we have a lot of good vets to mentor the kids. I still think trading him to the Oilers for one of their young skill guys is a very good fit for both teams.

I am not all for an all out blow up either, but I have seen Buff as the guy to move for a few years now. The potential retun has likely diminished, but he is more and more pressing now that he contract is winding down. Same goes for Ladd and even moreso Froli.

I remain confused about why it would come to that now though and I hope it doesn't. One or two such moves could have been made years ago. One or two key free agent signings could have rendered them unnecessary.

The kids provide reason for hope, but I still don't have full faith in this management group.

 

[Stej]

Last night's game got me thinking about what Chevy should do. Then I saw how well the prospects did yesterday. It made me realize that, IF this poor start continues through the first 20 games, Chevy should start at next year's projected roster and work backwards to determine personnel strategy.

What if Petan, Ehlers, Kosmachuk, Morrissey are all NHL-ready next year? What if we draft high enough that the 18 year old we get can contribute meaningfully? What if Burmi comes back? How can Chevy make room for all those players? He'll need to start packaging quantity to get more quality so that he can make room for the injection of youth. He'll need to determine quickly who the core is and maximize value from everyone else, which could also work towards a soft tank strategy.

I'm excited to follow how this season progresses, good or bad.

 

[Channelcat]

Ladd AND a 1st for Draisaitl.

what...

No question. Problem is, they aren't trading him........you'd have to overpay and I don't even think they would do the aforementioned. In any case its all a mute argument.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I would hope that they aren't far off base in their assessment. Chevy has said in the past that the Jets have a group that should be capable of making the playoffs, despite the fact that they quite clearly (IMO) didn't scared me more than any transaction ever.

If he truly believes they somehow become a contender without drastically improving team talent, then the Jets have a problem.

Last nights game clearly illustrated the potential this team has, or does not have. Home ice, home crowd, well rested, mostly healthy, good goaltending, play-off bubble team at best opponent, granted hot goaltender but shut out! again! Even with consistently good goaltending that was not a play-off team we saw last night.

[mod]

 

[Evil Little]

The kids provide reason for hope, but I still don't have full faith in this management group.

If you'll excuse the awkward analogy, I don't think this management group is even playing in the big leagues yet, but it is developing nicely. Someone decided to go for a split-aged core to compete with--given the ages of the best Thrashers upon relocation, I don't think that was a terrible call at all--and until the younger part of said core is in place there's not a heck of a lot that can be done as far as player movement anyway. How are you going to predict organizational needs two or three years down the road?

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

I think by now we've finally solved the mystery of why Thorburn got his extension: Maurice likes him and pushed Chevy to re-sign him. Obviously there's no proof, but I think it makes the most sense.

If that's the way it did go down, I'm not a fan of it. I don't like when the coach has a say in which players the organization should get/keep/trade. It hinders the team and our ability to draft prospects.

For all intents and purposes, Thorburn should have left a UFA on July 1st and Lowry should be filling his role on the 4th line, gradually moving up to the 3rd or even 2nd line when he finally feels comfortable. We could have spent 1.2 million on a 3rd line winger to play with Perreault and Galiardi, or just had Petan play in that spot.

 

[winnipegger]

Just as an aside, I really like the Buff for Eberle trade, always have.

Eberle will put up 60 points and we can move Frolik to the 3rd line where he belongs. Frolik is not a top line player unless we are only concerned about preventing goals.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Hmmmm. Are we trying to trade Clitsome?

@CJOBSports: #NHLJets HC Paul Maurice says Clitsome needs to prove in practice he is better than the guys in the lineup, says he didn't in training camp.

That's not the way you usually go about trying to trade somebody. To trade him you put him on the ice with a good partner against the worst opponent and see if you can make him look good. You don't sit him and say he isn't as good as the crap you are playing.

 

[Board Bard]

I think by now we've finally solved the mystery of why Thorburn got his extension: Maurice likes him and pushed Chevy to re-sign him. Obviously there's no proof, but I think it makes the most sense.

If that's the way it did go down, I'm not a fan of it. I don't like when the coach has a say in which players the organization should get/keep/trade. It hinders the team and our ability to draft prospects.

For all intents and purposes, Thorburn should have left a UFA on July 1st and Lowry should be filling his role on the 4th line, gradually moving up to the 3rd or even 2nd line when he finally feels comfortable. We could have spent 1.2 million on a 3rd line winger to play with Perreault and Galiardi, or just had Petan play in that spot.

Quite possibly. Thorburn leaving for nothing is better than Thorburn staying for any reason. However, Chevy did say when he signed Stuart that Stuart is "what the Winnipeg Jets are all about," so he might not have needed much prodding from Maurice to keep the cement overshoes that are No. 22.

 

[Aavco Cup]

That's not the way you usually go about trying to trade somebody. To trade him you put him on the ice with a good partner against the worst opponent and see if you can make him look good. You don't sit him and say he isn't as good as the crap you are playing.

That's not how all trades happen. We have a 2M caphit in the pressbox. Perhaps our GM would like to get rid of the $$$ and another GM would like to give him a chance.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's not how all trades happen. We have a 2M caphit in the pressbox. Perhaps our GM would like to get rid of the $$$ and another GM would like to give him a chance.

No it isn't but you have to admit it isn't very good marketing.

 

[Aavco Cup]

No it isn't but you have to admit it isn't very good marketing.

Well I wouldn't expect much in return whether he plays or not. We got him on the waiver wire.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well I wouldn't expect much in return whether he plays or not. We got him on the waiver wire.

Too much is made of that. A lot of players who go on to have good careers get waived early on. He was our 2LD before he got hurt last year and seemed to play pretty well during the exhibitions. I thought he should still be on the second pair but am not surprised that Stu is ahead of him. They like Stu. But he is now behind Pardy who was also a waiver pick up.
Edit: Point is I'd expect more for him if he was playing 2nd pair for us. Would we have scored fewer goals in the last 9 periods with him in the line-up?

 

[Aavco Cup]

Too much is made of that. A lot of players who go on to have good careers get waived early on. He was our 2LD before he got hurt last year and seemed to play pretty well during the exhibitions. I thought he should still be on the second pair but am not surprised that Stu is ahead of him. They like Stu. But he is now behind Pardy who was also a waiver pick up.

From the Maurice post practice interview. It sure didn't sound like our head coach is impressed with his game. He isn't getting in the lineup anytime soon unless there's an injury.

 

[Gump Hasek]

No it isn't but you have to admit it isn't very good marketing.

You are assuming they are trying to trade Clitsome; perhaps they are instead trying to trade someone like Postma (a recent reintroduction to the lineup and as such a likely candidate to have been showcased). That would indeed be an example of marketing a player.

 

[Koonta]

Too much is made of that. A lot of players who go on to have good careers get waived early on. He was our 2LD before he got hurt last year and seemed to play pretty well during the exhibitions. I thought he should still be on the second pair but am not surprised that Stu is ahead of him. They like Stu. But he is now behind Pardy who was also a waiver pick up.
Edit: Point is I'd expect more for him if he was playing 2nd pair for us. Would we have scored fewer goals in the last 9 periods with him in the line-up?

Actually they signed Pardy as a free agent I believe, but nevertheless I get your point

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Actually they signed Pardy as a free agent I believe, but nevertheless I get your point

Right you are. I stand corrected. Still, he was available for a low $$ contract and no assets.

 

[Evil Little]

Too much is made of that. A lot of players who go on to have good careers get waived early on. He was our 2LD before he got hurt last year and seemed to play pretty well during the exhibitions. I thought he should still be on the second pair but am not surprised that Stu is ahead of him. They like Stu. But he is now behind Pardy who was also a waiver pick up.
Edit: Point is I'd expect more for him if he was playing 2nd pair for us. Would we have scored fewer goals in the last 9 periods with him in the line-up?

Agreed. I'd also like to point out that the arguably the Jets' greatest asset was acquired as an RFA--along with another alternate captain in Stuart--in exchange for a waiver wire pickup (Peverley) and a player who had cleared waivers somewhat recently at the time (Valabik).

 

[YWGinYYZ]

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