Post-Game Talk: Jets 4 Canucks 2

[raideralex99]

I don’t dislike Vancouver but man if they are ever to beat the Jets, last night was it.
Not sure but they seem off.

It was weird their 7 game road winning streak came to an end after winning in Vegas, Colorado, Calgary and Edmonton. I guess they play their worst against the Jets.

 

[DRW204]

I admit to sharing the disappointment of many posters here. I had hoped for quite a bit more from Samberg. But I don't want to jump all over his every mistake. We need to have a little more patience with him and not be overly influenced by the odd big event mistake.

ok? if you look above at post #92 i said that.

Winning is more fun than losing.

Send Samberg down, let him get some confidence back. Last season he was lights out when he was up, he doesn't look the same right now.

wonder where they go when schmidt comes back.

bowness mentioned schmidt and perfetti are closest of the bunch to playing. so if perfetti is 1-1.5 weeks and ehlers is around 2 weeks, then schmidt is somewhere between.

they love their split of pk and pp players though, so if remaining true to that heinola would be removed

 

[tbcwpg]

It was weird their 7 game road winning streak came to an end after winning in Vegas, Colorado, Calgary and Edmonton. I guess they play their worst against the Jets.

Their recent record against the Jets is pretty bad, especially on the road. Before last season, Vancouver had beaten the Jets once since 2015.

 

[sipowicz]

Winning is more fun than losing.

Send Samberg down, let him get some confidence back. Last season he was lights out when he was up, he doesn't look the same right now.

Some of the geniuses in here didn't understand why the coaches were playing Stanley ahead of Samberg!

Bowness isn't a stupid man, he will put the best players on the ice that he has at his disposal!

 

[Jet]

Samberg is making some rookie mistakes, particularly the last couple of games. But it is just a couple of games. Capo has had a couple of good games but he has had as many bad ones as Snerg has had too, in fewer starts.

When Schmidt gets back there may be a difficult decision to make. I don't think Stan is better than any other Dman we have.

I absolutely disagree with the Capobianco assessment. He hasn't been perfect (who has) but his mistakes are minor. He's not losing the puck at the offensive blueline for a clear breakaway or passing the puck from the side of his net across the ice to a teammate outside of the zone. Those are just the most egregious mistakes, there's have been plenty more. Completely fanning on a puck right in front of him at the side of the net on the pk last night and many more examples.

He's made way worse mistakes than Stanley this year yet he seems to be impervious to critical examination in some eyes.

I'm not saying he'll never be good, I'm saying a stint in the ahl could do him good. Some really good players have been sent down in their sophomore year.

I'd also like for you to qualify the Capo statement you made. I've watched every minute he's played for us and I haven't seen any big whoops from him.

 

[voyageur]

LOL ok relax, Mort.

You know myself probably more than any other poster here advocates for our players, especially defensemen.

If we were in a reload year or playoffs looked unlikely I would just want to plug Samberg and Heinola in and let them get their reps, but this team is looking like it's poised to not only make the playoffs, but potentially do some damage.

With our current injury situation, we need all players in the active roster playing to their potential, and not hurting the team. Samberg was much better in his audition last year and early this year than he is currently playing. It looks to me like he's a guy who's lost confidence and is a bit overwhelmed.

There's no shame in being sent down for a bit to get his game back, and build some confidence in the AHL. The fact that we have a guy in Capobianco who's been impressive in his starts, and Heinola who is looking like he's gaining confidence - there is no reason to have Samberg potentially costing us points (that first play was shades of Igor Ulanov).

When Schmidt and Stan come back someone is going to have to go down. If Heinola continues to build off what he did last night (I know, that's a big IF), then sending him back down is kind of stupid.

It's just that Samberg and Heinola fill a completely different role. I mean good outlets, PP2 that's what Schmidt does. Samberg is expected to play some hard minutes, the PK2 role is an important one. The Jets would probably have to play Morrissey in the role, with Ville in the lineup, and he's the catalyst for the team's offensive push, so keeping him healthy is paramount.

Samberg's game will need to improve just like Ville's in processing it, making quick decisions at a level of play that is quicker. In the sum of games, Samberg has been better than Heinola, who hasn't played much on the road, unprotected. I noticed after he made a mistake on that pass, his next one under pressure in the zone, was good for a breakout. I definitely see Samberg shooting the puck more, which is something he was probably instructed to do. Takes time to build chemistry, I'm hoping he and Pionk can figure out how to defend as a pairing, because Dillon with Schmidt have had some good stretch of games, and the Jets need some consistency on defense.

 

[raideralex99]

Their recent record against the Jets is pretty bad, especially on the road. Before last season, Vancouver had beaten the Jets once since 2015.

Tell me about it ... I went to 10 Canucks games and Jets lost them all. I'm on a 5 game win streak now.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Some the geniuses in here didn't understand why the coaches were playing Stanley ahead of Samberg!

Bowness isn't a stupid man, he will put the best players on the ice that he has at his disposal!

I find Stanley to be slow afoot and not very agile and though he attempts to play physical he’s really not great at that either.
Samberg has more of an upside I believe.

Samberg has definitely struggled the last few games there’s no sugar coating that.

Stanley will get some playing time soon enough.

 

[voyageur]

I'm interested to see if Adam Lowry stays on the wing for a stretch here. Scheifele seemed pretty happy to have a guy who thinks the game well on his line. I'm just thinking now, if Perfetti comes back, would you keep Lowry on that line. Lowry is the kind of hard forechecker and toughness I think the Jets want playing around a player like Perfetti, except he has been cast into a role as top defending centre. And by the looks of it, he's been carrying his wingers, who have haven't played as well without him.

That's a tough one for me because I think strength down the middle has been a reason for the Jets success, and eventually you want to get Lowry back in his regular spot, with regular wingers, but Stenlund and Gustafsson both have something to prove, would you trust them on the road as unprotected centres against top players?

 

[Atoyot]

I don't see Samberg making many mental mistakes. His positioning is good, he knows where to be and what plays to make, but he's handling the puck like a grenade right now and can't do much with it under pressure. Samberg has the tools to be an NHL player but right now they're failing at NHL speed. Let him go to the Moose where he has more time and space when the puck is on his stick and let those tools recalibrate a bit. Last year he stepped in from the Moose and played a very mistake free game, after 27 games it doesn't look like he's getting back to that without some recalibration.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I find Stanley to be slow afoot and not very agile and though he attempts to play physical he’s really not great at that either.
Samberg has more of an upside I believe.

Samberg has definitely struggled the last few games there’s no sugar coating that.

Stanley will get some playing time soon enough.

Stanley is slow and not agile but a lot more physical than Samberg. He also plays a simpler game with fewer errors. Whether that’s experience or iq only time will.

I'm interested to see if Adam Lowry stays on the wing for a stretch here. Scheifele seemed pretty happy to have a guy who thinks the game well on his line. I'm just thinking now, if Perfetti comes back, would you keep Lowry on that line. Lowry is the kind of hard forechecker and toughness I think the Jets want playing around a player like Perfetti, except he has been cast into a role as top defending centre. And by the looks of it, he's been carrying his wingers, who have haven't played as well without him.

That's a tough one for me because I think strength down the middle has been a reason for the Jets success, and eventually you want to get Lowry back in his regular spot, with regular wingers, but Stenlund and Gustafsson both have something to prove, would you trust them on the road as unprotected centres against top players?

I think Gus been very good defensively.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I absolutely disagree with the Capobianco assessment. He hasn't been perfect (who has) but his mistakes are minor. He's not losing the puck at the offensive blueline for a clear breakaway or passing the puck from the side of his net across the ice to a teammate outside of the zone. Those are just the most egregious mistakes, there's have been plenty more. Completely fanning on a puck right in front of him at the side of the net on the pk last night and many more examples.

He's made way worse mistakes than Stanley this year yet he seems to be impervious to critical examination in some eyes.

I'm not saying he'll never be good, I'm saying a stint in the ahl could do him good. Some really good players have been sent down in their sophomore year.

I'd also like for you to qualify the Capo statement you made. I've watched every minute he's played for us and I haven't seen any big whoops from him.

I can't quote chapter and verse on Capo. To my eye, he has been very inconsistent. I liked his first game, posted that he had earned another. Hated his second game to the point I never wanted to see him again. IIRC his last couple of games have been OK but there were a couple of other bad ones before them.

I don't think Samberg has made more mistakes than Stan per game. I don't deny Samberg's mistakes. I don't ignore his good play either.

You could be right that he would benefit from a few games in the A, or not. Someone will have to go somewhere when all are healthy. It could be Samberg. It could be Heinola. That will depend on their play in the meantime.

I get the impression that the org still likes Stanley's size. For the life of me, I don't know why. He doesn't even use it particularly well. But I won't be surprised to see him as the regular 3LD when he gets back. Both Samberg and Ville could go down.

 

[KingBogo]

I find it interesting that many are making the opposite argument for Samberg to be sent down that was made for Heinola to be brought up. Samberg now needs to be sent down to slow things down and let him recalibrate, while Ville needed to be brought up to learn his lessons against NHL competition. As in most things the truth is somewhere in the middle. All rookie defenseman will make glaring mistakes. NHL players are too good and smart not to take advantage of inexperience from time to time. And for defensemen it is much more noticeable. As he activates more likely Ville will look really bad at times and at he will also show off his offensive chops as he gets more opportunity. IMO Bones will make roster choices on the roles players play, which when/if everyone is healthy Samberg likely gets the nod because he PKs and is becoming a pretty good shot blocker.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I would like to see more physicality, meanness out of berg.

 

[LowLefty]

I find Stanley to be slow afoot and not very agile and though he attempts to play physical he’s really not great at that either.
Samberg has more of an upside I believe.

Samberg has definitely struggled the last few games there’s no sugar coating that.

Stanley will get some playing time soon enough.

That's because he is slow and not very agile.
So why does Bones Play him?

The guy is a great passer and very composed - but this rarely gets mentioned.
He has a hard shot - probably the hardest on this team - I'd like to see him use it more and I think Bones wants the same.
He uses that wing span effectively - and it covers some of the quickness issue. He'll get beat once in awhile, but usually to the outside - but he lets very few guys into the middle which is exactly what they all need to do. When our blueline is off, it's when they allow middle ice - and outside of JoMo, they all do it - Stan less so.
Physically, he gets the job done - he doesn't destroy anyone out there but he can handle himself in traffic and along the walls, he can slow down the cycle and his presence gives players pause when they are taking advantage of our size on the blueline - that's all you need from a 3rd pair guy.
He's smart - he doesn't over react to pressure and tries to keep it simple out there. The smart part is he knows that is what he can do well, he plays within his limits - and it's what Bones wants from him.
That lack of flash sometimes gets translated to slow and lanky - who cares as long as he gets the job done.
I'd leave that flash to guys like JoMo who can be very effective with that as part of his game (Pionk is a guy that wants to be flashy but gets into trouble trying to play that way - at $6M / yr).
He has shown that he has solid offensive instincts - he doesn't over do it by any means but he can jump in on the rush, pinch when needed. I see him doing more of this prior to the injuries - probably because he was asked to.
Bones likes him because he does what is asked of him and it doesn't take repeated lectures to get the message through - he's the type of player coaches love to work with.

This board is split on Stan (it might lean more to the negative actually). He often gets measured based on the points you make - sometimes you see the positives noted (I'm guilty of that) - it's a bias to an extent.

Bones likely has him back in the lineup ASAP - I think he see's what he brings.

 

[Guardian17]

Watching the post game interviews for Scheifele and Dubois.

By the sound of their voices you can tell they're battling the flu.

I know cause I caught it around the Grey Cup and it lasted three weeks.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

At this point Winnipeg needs a giant infirmary.

 

[surixon]

That's because he is slow and not very agile.
So why does Bones Play him?

The guy is a great passer and very composed - but this rarely gets mentioned.
He has a hard shot - probably the hardest on this team - I'd like to see him use it more and I think Bones wants the same.
He uses that wing span effectively - and it covers some of the quickness issue. He'll get beat once in awhile, but usually to the outside - but he lets very few guys into the middle which is exactly what they all need to do. When our blueline is off, it's when they allow middle ice - and outside of JoMo, they all do it - Stan less so.
Physically, he gets the job done - he doesn't destroy anyone out there but he can handle himself in traffic and along the walls, he can slow down the cycle and his presence gives players pause when they are taking advantage of our size on the blueline - that's all you need from a 3rd pair guy.
He's smart - he doesn't over react to pressure and tries to keep it simple out there. The smart part is he knows that is what he can do well, he plays within his limits - and it's what Bones wants from him.
That lack of flash sometimes gets translated to slow and lanky - who cares as long as he gets the job done.
I'd leave that flash to guys like JoMo who can be very effective with that as part of his game (Pionk is a guy that wants to be flashy but gets into trouble trying to play that way - at $6M / yr).
He has shown that he has solid offensive instincts - he doesn't over do it by any means but he can jump in on the rush, pinch when needed. I see him doing more of this prior to the injuries - probably because he was asked to.
Bones likes him because he does what is asked of him and it doesn't take repeated lectures to get the message through - he's the type of player coaches love to work with.

This board is split on Stan (it might lean more to the negative actually). He often gets measured based on the points you make - sometimes you see the positives noted (I'm guilty of that) - it's a bias to an extent.

Bones likely has him back in the lineup ASAP - I think he see's what he brings.

Snerg's biggest issue is his puck management in his own end. He panics and misfires too often or he makes the wrong read and pass. I find moat of the rest of his game to be progressing pretty well. He boxes out well, is good on the wall and closes down shooting lanes quickly. He also is taking smarter shots in the offensive end and is improving on his decision making and puck placement. I'm quite fine letting him continue to work through things at the NHL level especially as it is really only the one thing in his game that is really poor right now. I still think he has more tools then Logan if he puts them all together but in the end I don't really care who wins that spot if they can do it effectively.

With regards to Tree, you are correct that he has more poise with the puck in his end which generally leads to smoother breakouts. He does have his reach which helps him with his gap and keeping players outside. He however isn't as good as Snerg at separating players from the puck down low (its where his lack of foot speed hurts him the most imo). Offensively while he has a cannon of a shot he has incredibly poor accuracy and his lack of foot speed hurts him in being able to walk the line and open up shooting lanes. I do find he reads the play pretty well and rotates in appropriately.

 

[voyageur]

I think Gus been very good defensively.

I think Gus has been terrific on the defensive side, as long as he is a reliable penalty killer I think he stays in the lineup. He's got some of the big player strides like Lowry, that make up a lot of ice. Stenlund has been strong on the draw and gives Bowness an option to take strong side RH draws on the PK. But I don't see him matching up against Mc David types in the defensive zone. The one player I see having a bit of a mid season slump up front is Morgan Barron. I think its a matter of time before some faster players replace him on the PK. Wouldn't mind seeing him on the PP instead of Stenlund though, with all the injuries.

 

[LowLefty]

Snerg's biggest issue is his puck management in his own end. He panics and misfires too often or he makes the wrong read and pass. I find moat of the rest of his game to be progressing pretty well. He boxes out well, is good on the wall and closes down shooting lanes quickly. He also is taking smarter shots in the offensive end and is improving on his decision making and puck placement. I'm quite fine letting him continue to work through things at the NHL level especially as it is really only the one thing in his game that is really poor right now. I still think he has more tools then Logan if he puts them all together but in the end I don't really care who wins that spot if they can do it effectively.

With regards to Tree, you are correct that he has more poise with the puck in his end which generally leads to smoother breakouts. He does have his reach which helps him with his gap and keeping players outside. He however isn't as good as Snerg at separating players from the puck down low (its where his lack of foot speed hurts him the most imo). Offensively while he has a cannon of a shot he has incredibly poor accuracy and his lack of foot speed hurts him in being able to walk the line and open up shooting lanes. I do find he reads the play pretty well and rotates in appropriately.

Yeah, we're pretty close - good post

 

[Adam da bomb]

Snerg's biggest issue is his puck management in his own end. He panics and misfires too often or he makes the wrong read and pass. I find moat of the rest of his game to be progressing pretty well. He boxes out well, is good on the wall and closes down shooting lanes quickly. He also is taking smarter shots in the offensive end and is improving on his decision making and puck placement. I'm quite fine letting him continue to work through things at the NHL level especially as it is really only the one thing in his game that is really poor right now. I still think he has more tools then Logan if he puts them all together but in the end I don't really care who wins that spot if they can do it effectively.

With regards to Tree, you are correct that he has more poise with the puck in his end which generally leads to smoother breakouts. He does have his reach which helps him with his gap and keeping players outside. He however isn't as good as Snerg at separating players from the puck down low (its where his lack of foot speed hurts him the most imo). Offensively while he has a cannon of a shot he has incredibly poor accuracy and his lack of foot speed hurts him in being able to walk the line and open up shooting lanes. I do find he reads the play pretty well and rotates in appropriately.

I think Stan’s potential is that of a good 3rd pairing D Samberg has the potential to be a top 4 D if he puts it together. Better tools but he has not put it altogether yet. There is no guarantee he does put it together.
He could also use some more nastiness.

 

[surixon]

I think Stan’s potential is that of a good 3rd pairing D Samberg has the potential to be a top 4 D if he puts it together. Better tools but he has not put it altogether yet. There is no guarantee he does put it together.
He could also use some more nastiness.

Yup, I think Dillion is Snerg's upside. I'm not sure what Stanley's is atm. He is very likely a solid third pairing dmen. I guess if he can learn to use his shot and tidy some stuff up he might be able to be a solid 4/5.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Winning is more fun than losing.

Send Samberg down, let him get some confidence back. Last season he was lights out when he was up, he doesn't look the same right now.

He is at the bottom of our defense depth chart, so it only makes sense for him to work on his game in the AHL when we get bodies back. I don’t think he was ever “lights out” but if he’s salvageable then he needs lower stakes reps with the Moose.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Yup, I think Dillion is Snerg's upside. I'm not sure what Stanley's is atm. He is very likely a solid third pairing dmen. I guess if he can learn to use his shot and tidy some stuff up he might be able to be a solid 4/5.

Dillon’s edge and physicality is what sets him apart on our blue line. I don’t know if players can just acquire that personality at will. Remember Dave Babych. He was another puffed wheat who would have been a legend if he played angry.

 

[DRW204]

Agreed on "lights out" . Think some are overrating him considerably. He was mostly solid last year, however it was in a v sheltered role, and V small amount of gp/ TOI . Weird how a similarly aged Stanley would get all these qualifiers of his play (sheltered, 3rd pair etc) meanwhile it's conveniently omitted with Samberg.

This year he's really fighting it. I don't ever see him a catalyst for offense, but his puck skills have been a weakness. Defensively I guess he's average given his role?

I don't get why samberg seems to have all this supposed untapped top 4 potential yet Stanley who is merely 7 months older is what he is? Id say Stanleys first year has been better than any of the proceeding seasons that any of the two players shown so far. They're in their draft+6th and draft+7th id say they're both closer to are what they are than make a huge jump to quality and consistent top 4 d. But I really hope I'm wrong.

He is at the bottom of our defense depth chart, so it only makes sense for him to work on his game in the AHL when we get bodies back. I don’t think he was ever “lights out” but if he’s salvageable then he needs lower stakes reps with the Moose.