Post-Game Talk: Jets 3 - Clutch and Grabbers 2

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Has the last stretch of wounded Jets play earned us any space on the cap? With so many AHL contracts getting playing time are we saving money? I’m not 100% sure how that works with the injured salaries.

 

[gojetsgo]

Has the last stretch of wounded Jets play earned us any space on the cap? With so many AHL contracts getting playing time are we saving money? I’m not 100% sure how that works with the injured salaries.

players on ir still count against the cap as well as the players we call up to replace them, so we haven't been accruing as much deadline space as we would have been had we not been injured. the healthier we get the more players we can send back down and the more we will accrue deadline space

 

[Inanna]

Wow.

I thought I was keeping up on Jets news while back on the coast for two weeks, so it was a real surprise to return to Winnipeg and discover this in today's paper. I don't know how I missed hearing about this; I thought he'd only gotten a penis injury.

Just wow.

 

[Buffdog]

Our top 6 currently includes a waiver pickup from Seattle and a player that has a career 0.34 point per game average in the 5th best league in the world over the past 5 years. Scheifele just got his first assist in 13 games because he's not playing with anybody that can score. Great that the Jets are winning but that doesn't automatically mean that every decision made was correct, Jets would have benefitted from picking up a cheap skilled player or two that could step up the lineup in the event of injury.

I guess that depends on what chevy would have had to give up to get that piece, and how that would have affected the current blend of the team.

Unless you can prove your point, it's not very useful to bring it up (no offense). And it's impossible for you to prove your point.

Which circles me back to my point. What Chevy did (against the wills of many posters here this summer) worked. I can prove that.

 

[Buffdog]

Aye. There was a lot of weight put on luck and vibes this offseason. Was it the salve that we needed? Apparently. Could it have gone off the rails immediately? Absolutely. People crowing about Chevy doing the bare minimum being the exact thing he needed to do have just as much insight as those of us that were and still are calling for trades. This team was better on paper last year than they were in practice, and got worse when Stas and Copp left. Cheveldayoff bet on that being the case, but that doesn't mean that the people calling for more traction on the trade/sign front were wrong either. This team can be better. We see this. That doesn't change anything.

Remember that the Bownaissance wasn't even the 1st choice, either. Remember that when talking about Chevy being right about the off-season.

I'm almost incredulous that someone would look at the results we've had so far this year and then say "well, yeah, but...." about chevy's offseason.

The pieces people were advocating for him to move to "just do something" have all been anywhere from key to highly instrumental in our success this year.

If it had gone to shit this year those same people wouldn't be saying "I know that chevy didn't make any moves, but"".. they'd all be out with their pitchforks saying "I TOLD YOU SO!!!!"

 

[Jet]

I'm almost incredulous that someone would look at the results we've had so far this year and then say "well, yeah, but...." about chevy's offseason.

The pieces people were advocating for him to move to "just do something" have all been anywhere from key to highly instrumental in our success this year.

If it had gone to shit this year those same people wouldn't be saying "I know that chevy didn't make any moves, but"".. they'd all be out with their pitchforks saying "I TOLD YOU SO!!!!"

This is so true.

Those that were advocating for a measured approach considering we were changing a critical piece of the puzzle were doing so in the basis of logic.

Those screaming for change to players were doing it because of fomo and emotion.

Even if we were to make significant roster changes, it's only logical to have the new staff and systems installed before doing that.

It's almost like someone with a blown engine wanting to get fancy tires and a new paint job instead of fixing the damn engine

 

[Stumbledore]

Wow.

I thought I was keeping up on Jets news while back on the coast for two weeks, so it was a real surprise to return to Winnipeg and discover this in today's paper. I don't know how I missed hearing about this; I thought he'd only gotten a penis injury.

Just wow.

View attachment 630334

Groan......

 

[CorgisPer60]

I'm almost incredulous that someone would look at the results we've had so far this year and then say "well, yeah, but...." about chevy's offseason.

The pieces people were advocating for him to move to "just do something" have all been anywhere from key to highly instrumental in our success this year.

If it had gone to shit this year those same people wouldn't be saying "I know that chevy didn't make any moves, but"".. they'd all be out with their pitchforks saying "I TOLD YOU SO!!!!"

I'm sorry if you guys want to reward the GM for doing the bare minimum after 3 years of doing the bare minimum to disastrous results. He banked on the team being better than the sum of its parts instead of less than the sum of its parts, and that all he needed was a new coach. Okay, good. Looks like he was right!

Where the f*** was this 3 years ago then? The team had been in a precipitous spiral since the Vegas series, and couldn't recover. The coach literally quit on the team before he was fired, and the entire coach's staff hung around until the end of the season before being let go. I'm not going to give him a good boy pat on the head for this, when his hand was forced the entire time, just like his entire tenure. He's never been proactive.

 

[Atoyot]

I guess that depends on what chevy would have had to give up to get that piece, and how that would have affected the current blend of the team.

Unless you can prove your point, it's not very useful to bring it up (no offense). And it's impossible for you to prove your point.

Which circles me back to my point. What Chevy did (against the wills of many posters here this summer) worked. I can prove that.

You really can't. The season isn't half done, the Jets are a .500 team with the last round of injuries, and again we have 3 players playing in the top 6 that have no right being there. The team is playing better than last year, that's great, I said they should make the playoffs with this roster before the season started, doesn't change the fact that if you have Kristian Reichel playing in your top 6 you're not in an ideal situation and it was a situation created by the fact that the Jets don't have anybody past the top 6 who are skilled enough to play with their skilled players and not look woefully out of place. You can be winning and still realize that a situation isn't ideal.

For the record, I wasn't clamouring for big moves, I just wanted some top 6 depth ala Sonny Milano or similar. I thought Gagner could fill that need, and he has somewhat, but this team relies far too heavily on too few players to feel comfortable with its success right now.

 

[Potrzebie]

Wow.

I thought I was keeping up on Jets news while back on the coast for two weeks, so it was a real surprise to return to Winnipeg and discover this in today's paper. I don't know how I missed hearing about this; I thought he'd only gotten a penis injury.

Just wow.

View attachment 630334

It's like the Pet Sematary, bury the old geezer there for a few weeks and he'll come back better than new.

 

[gojetsgo]

You really can't. The season isn't half done, the Jets are a .500 team with the last round of injuries, and again we have 3 players playing in the top 6 that have no right being there. The team is playing better than last year, that's great, I said they should make the playoffs with this roster before the season started, doesn't change the fact that if you have Kristian Reichel playing in your top 6 you're not in an ideal situation and it was a situation created by the fact that the Jets don't have anybody past the top 6 who are skilled enough to play with their skilled players and not look woefully out of place. You can be winning and still realize that a situation isn't ideal.

For the record, I wasn't clamouring for big moves, I just wanted some top 6 depth ala Sonny Milano or similar. I thought Gagner could fill that need, and he has somewhat, but this team relies far too heavily on too few players to feel comfortable with its success right now.

and they wouldn't be there if we didn't have so many injuries, of course we are relying heavily on a few players right now, we have 7 regulars out and once they come back it will take the burden off the top guys to carry every night, the fact that we have been around .500 with our injuries should give people optimism of this team when they get healthy

 

[robertocarlos]

players on ir still count against the cap as well as the players we call up to replace them, so we haven't been accruing as much deadline space as we would have been had we not been injured. the healthier we get the more players we can send back down and the more we will accrue deadline space

That's not good. You could go over the cap from injuries that are not long-term. Ehlers at least should be counted as LTIR saving a large cap hit.

 

[DRW204]

man what are you talking about

majority ppl wanted like 3rd line level players here ie: names commonly brought up milano, rodrigues, puljujarvi, or one from me was sprong. and apparently they tried hard for Jarnkrok & Heinen (hmmm 3rd line level players). these are not giant moves. you're acting like they folks wanted to be in the gaudreau sweepstakes or some shit.

giant moves...... replacing an entire staff, leadership change. not huge specific roster personnel moves but those are big moves for this org given it's years of complacency and failures to make PO or regular season noise. folks on this forum even said the team seems to be banking on a coach change to turn the ship. whether right or wrong, or bowness is the right coach was rightfully TBD.

imagine if people on this forum took victory laps and "i told you so" after every year the Jets failed to make noise, just like some posters are doing in this thread right now.

way to create division among the fanbase

Good for you for admitting it. There were many posters shitting on chevy all summer because he didn't make any giant moves. There was a small group of us posters who had more of a "hey this roster was supposed to be a contender a year ago so let's see what happens with a new coach first" mentality.

6th in the league in goal differential and 7th in points percentage. You can't fake your way into that, especially with our injuries. Sure helle has been amazing but we still have to score more than our opponent to win.

I'm just happy to see the bandwagon filling up. Now if we could only get people to shut the f*** up about Maurice. It's like listening to someone complain about their ex a year after they broke up

 

[Buffdog]

I'm sorry if you guys want to reward the GM for doing the bare minimum after 3 years of doing the bare minimum to disastrous results. He banked on the team being better than the sum of its parts instead of less than the sum of its parts, and that all he needed was a new coach. Okay, good. Looks like he was right!

Where the f*** was this 3 years ago then? The team had been in a precipitous spiral since the Vegas series, and couldn't recover. The coach literally quit on the team before he was fired, and the entire coach's staff hung around until the end of the season before being let go. I'm not going to give him a good boy pat on the head for this, when his hand was forced the entire time, just like his entire tenure. He's never been proactive.

Glad to hear we agree:

1. Chevy was right last summer (I mean how can you NOT agree that the path he took was the right one based on this seasons results

2. Pomo should have been fired earlier

Remember, I'm talking about last summer - specifically chevy waiting to see what the roster he assembled could do under a new coach before making random knee jerk moves that some people advocated for.

 

[gojetsgo]

That's not good. You could go over the cap from injuries that are not long-term. Ehlers at least should be counted as LTIR saving a large cap hit.

we don't want to go into ltir because then we don't accrue any capspace at the deadline

 

[Buffdog]

man what are you talking about

majority ppl wanted like 3rd line level players here ie: names commonly brought up milano, rodrigues, puljujarvi, or one from me was sprong. and apparently they tried hard for Jarnkrok & Heinen (hmmm 3rd line level players). these are not giant moves. you're acting like they folks wanted to be in the gaudreau sweepstakes or some shit.

giant moves...... replacing an entire staff, leadership change. not huge specific roster personnel moves but those are big moves for this org given it's years of complacency and failures to make PO or regular season noise. folks on this forum even said the team seems to be banking on a coach change to turn the ship. whether right or wrong, or bowness is the right coach was rightfully TBD.

imagine if people on this forum took victory laps and "i told you so" after every year the Jets failed to make noise, just like some posters are doing in this thread right now.

way to create division among the fanbase

The UFAs didn't want to come and the trades never materialized - what was he supposed to do? Overpay? Then you'd bitch about that

 

[KingBogo]

I just think this team went about the offseason right...Change the culture. Bringing in Scott Arniel was something that was obviously in the works right off the hop, as it was the first leak, and the effect he has had on special teams is exactly the reason he was brought in. Bowness was someone who could work with management and players to improve the culture. Give the leadership the tools to be the kind of leaders they could be. Improve the systems to work on strengths. Give the youth the feeling of belonging to the group in a way that Maurice couldn't. All of this would be insignificant if Hellebuyck wasn't in top form again, and I don't know who deserves credit for that, but we have a team now that can win based on the strength of the goaltending out.

I think Chevy knew he had a good group, that was special, he just needed a change at the helm.

This is a real good post. I also think it fits with why Chevy didn’t rush in to make a move with our current injuries at forward. I think Chevy believes in this group and he is being proven right. Good teams can deal with adversity and even grow under adverse circumstances. If the ultimate goal is to make a cup run it is best for Chevy to keep his powder dry until the TD and make the best deal at that time. Our needs may be very different 2 months from now. And players available then might not be available yet.

 

[Buffdog]

You really can't. The season isn't half done, the Jets are a .500 team with the last round of injuries, and again we have 3 players playing in the top 6 that have no right being there. The team is playing better than last year, that's great, I said they should make the playoffs with this roster before the season started, doesn't change the fact that if you have Kristian Reichel playing in your top 6 you're not in an ideal situation and it was a situation created by the fact that the Jets don't have anybody past the top 6 who are skilled enough to play with their skilled players and not look woefully out of place. You can be winning and still realize that a situation isn't ideal.

For the record, I wasn't clamouring for big moves, I just wanted some top 6 depth ala Sonny Milano or similar. I thought Gagner could fill that need, and he has somewhat, but this team relies far too heavily on too few players to feel comfortable with its success right now.

So, what would you do? Overpay for a stopgap?

UFAs didn't want to be here. Nothing you can do about that, and you certainly can't blame chevy

 

[gojetsgo]

man what are you talking about

majority ppl wanted like 3rd line level players here ie: names commonly brought up milano, rodrigues, puljujarvi, or one from me was sprong. and apparently they tried hard for Jarnkrok & Heinen (hmmm 3rd line level players). these are not giant moves. you're acting like they folks wanted to be in the gaudreau sweepstakes or some shit.

giant moves...... replacing an entire staff, leadership change. not huge specific roster personnel moves but those are big moves for this org given it's years of complacency and failures to make PO or regular season noise. folks on this forum even said the team seems to be banking on a coach change to turn the ship. whether right or wrong, or bowness is the right coach was rightfully TBD.

imagine if people on this forum took victory laps and "i told you so" after every year the Jets failed to make noise, just like some posters are doing in this thread right now.

way to create division among the fanbase

shouldn't this just be proof that they tried to go after these type of players and didn't just sit back to try nothing? pretty sure it was reported that we offered jarnkrok more money and he still chose the leafs, and then we had a few posters claiming chevy needed to get creative in his offers as if there was a way for us to get free agents other then over paying...

 

[DRW204]

The UFAs didn't want to come and the trades never materialized - what was he supposed to do? Overpay? Then you'd bitch about that

so you admit you're just talking out your ass with this giant moves stuff? like what are the giant moves ppl wanted?

acquiring like 1-3m or PTO players are giant moves to you? seriously. these are basically in-line with moves that they were trying to make.

ok so they didnt materialize, if you read what i posted, i mentioned that I and i think many, believe the org wants to see how the team responds under a new staff. which is fully viable.

you keep saying "org was right" "chevy was right" so who was right all those years with 0 PO success? 0 Cups or cup appearances?

 

[voyageur]

You really can't. The season isn't half done, the Jets are a .500 team with the last round of injuries, and again we have 3 players playing in the top 6 that have no right being there. The team is playing better than last year, that's great, I said they should make the playoffs with this roster before the season started, doesn't change the fact that if you have Kristian Reichel playing in your top 6 you're not in an ideal situation and it was a situation created by the fact that the Jets don't have anybody past the top 6 who are skilled enough to play with their skilled players and not look woefully out of place. You can be winning and still realize that a situation isn't ideal.

For the record, I wasn't clamouring for big moves, I just wanted some top 6 depth ala Sonny Milano or similar. I thought Gagner could fill that need, and he has somewhat, but this team relies far too heavily on too few players to feel comfortable with its success right now.

I don't know the offseason discussions I found to be very frustrating. I don't know how many times I had to chime to say that Adam Lowry was not the problem with this team, as I don't know how many times it was said we couldn't win with Adam Lowry as a 3rd line centre.

I think we all knew the forward group was thin, but to get to 19 forwards in less than 40 games, that's a big toll. I don't worry too much about who's in what position, because two top 6 forwards can carry the other forward if they play their game the right way. I mean you just have to look at the HoF career of the Sedins and some of the wingers they had along the way.

Free agency is a dead end for Winnipeg. This is a market that attracts scraps for the most part. What brings players to Winnipeg? Opportunity, and relationships, and you look at some of the players added this year, well Stenlund knew Dubois from Columbus, Gustafsson from Sweden. Kuhlman played college hockey with some of the guys on the team. Guys like Gagner, Rittich, Capobianco didn't have a lot of opportunities elsewhere for NHL contracts. Maenalanen definitely didn't have a lot of options for an NHL career. Jonsson-Fjallby got an endorsement from Arniel.

Ehlers and Perfetti coming back put the Jets in the same position they've been in since game 3 of the season, looking for one top 6 forward to step up, and relying on good defensive play, and special teams from the bottom 6.

 

[DRW204]

shouldn't this just be proof that they tried to go after these type of players and didn't just sit back to try nothing?

yea which is why i dont get how someone can sit there and say "oh look chevy was right all along we dont need anything" when they were attempting to make the block-buster signings of Danton Heinen and Jarnkrok

 

[Buffdog]

so you admit you're just talking out your ass with this giant moves stuff? like what are the giant moves ppl wanted?

acquiring like 1-3m or PTO players are giant moves to you? seriously. these are basically in-line with moves that they were trying to make.

ok so they didnt materialize, if you read what i posted, i mentioned that I and i believe many interpret org wanting to see how the team responds under a new staff. which is fully viable.

you keep saying "org was right" "chevy was right" so who was right all those years with 0 PO success? 0 Cups or cup appearances?

People (not saying you) were advocating for moving Schief and Wheeler... I even saw some people saying to move Morrissey. There were plenty calling for moving helle and pld as well and tearing it down.

There were also posters on here saying that chevy failed because he did nothing. I remember specifically because when I asked them for examples of what they would have done, they had no answers.

And for the last time, I WAS TALKING ABOUT LAST SUMMER SPECIFICALLY. Let's not build strawmen.

Edit: how do you know who chevy did and didn't try to sign to 1-3m deals?

 

[gojetsgo]

yea which is why i dont get how someone can sit there and say "oh look chevy was right all along we dont need anything" when they were attempting to make the block-buster signings of Danton Heinen and Jarnkrok

I think it's more of, chevy was right to not blow it up and make a huge trade of a core player then not signing a middle six forward

 

[tbcwpg]

man what are you talking about

majority ppl wanted like 3rd line level players here ie: names commonly brought up milano, rodrigues, puljujarvi, or one from me was sprong. and apparently they tried hard for Jarnkrok & Heinen (hmmm 3rd line level players). these are not giant moves. you're acting like they folks wanted to be in the gaudreau sweepstakes or some shit.

giant moves...... replacing an entire staff, leadership change. not huge specific roster personnel moves but those are big moves for this org given it's years of complacency and failures to make PO or regular season noise. folks on this forum even said the team seems to be banking on a coach change to turn the ship. whether right or wrong, or bowness is the right coach was rightfully TBD.

imagine if people on this forum took victory laps and "i told you so" after every year the Jets failed to make noise, just like some posters are doing in this thread right now.

way to create division among the fanbase

The "just do something" was the loudest, if not the majority. They did try for Jarnkrok and Heinen as you mentioned, and there were pages of discussion about how Chevy failed because they chose other teams, about whether they chose elsewhere because of Winnipeg the city or because they knew that Chevy had let the locker room fester with toxicity and how the team will never be fixed with Scheifele and Wheeler still here and Wheeler should be moved with retention to get whatever they can to get him out of the room etc etc etc etc. There were Wheeler buyout discussions.

There's always been division amongst the fanbase, less so when they win obviously, but it's there. People have taken victory laps when the team has failed. Hell, the forum has a tank thread and this year's isn't the first.