Post-Game Talk: Jets 3 - Clutch and Grabbers 2

[DRW204]

People (not saying you) were advocating for moving Schief and Wheeler... I even saw some people saying to move Morrissey. There were plenty calling for moving helle and pld as well and tearing it down.

There were also posters on here saying that chevy failed because he did nothing. I remember specifically because when I asked them for examples of what they would have done, they had no answers.

And for the last time, I WAS TALKING ABOUT LAST SUMMER SPECIFICALLY. Let's not build strawmen.

Edit: how do you know who chevy did and didn't try to sign to 1-3m deals?

people commented on trading scheifele when he came out that in his exit interview, similarly w/ wheeler when it was put out there he was willing to move his nmc to facilitate a trade. if you can't handle discussion of rumors, trade scenarios, perhaps dont enter those threads? similar to the rebuild talk, which i think was a minority.

man people post trades, signings, roster configs all the f***ing time on this forum. idk if you miss them or what. and im sure you'd have a bunch of retorts for any suggestions anyway.

ok you're talking about last summer, now you feel the need to throw a victory parade 40 games in b/c they have a solid record. my point is, can you imagine if those advocated for some moves or coaching changes did victory laps all those years where they accomplished squat? that's how this forum gets divisive and probably why some have left, take breaks etc.

you're right, don't 100% know. im going off what local media folks were saying but no one knows for sure of course. believe it was ken wiebe that the Jets were trying to make "giant moves" like jarnkrok and heinen.

I think it's more of, chevy was right to not blow it up and make a huge trade of a core player then not signing a middle six forward

ok that's plausible. but i feel like ppl post about what the latest rumor is then move on. everyone was posting about scheifele's exit-interview and trade scenarios if it came to that. similar to wheeler when it came out he was willing to move his nmc. imo if a poster cant handle ppl discussing the latest news, rumors etc, the internet might not be for them

The "just do something" was the loudest, if not the majority. They did try for Jarnkrok and Heinen as you mentioned, and there were pages of discussion about how Chevy failed because they chose other teams, about whether they chose elsewhere because of Winnipeg the city or because they knew that Chevy had let the locker room fester with toxicity and how the team will never be fixed with Scheifele and Wheeler still here and Wheeler should be moved with retention to get whatever they can to get him out of the room etc etc etc etc. There were Wheeler buyout discussions.

There's always been division amongst the fanbase, less so when they win obviously, but it's there. People have taken victory laps when the team has failed. Hell, the forum has a tank thread and this year's isn't the first.

well he did technically fail if he tried to sign them and they did not. scheifele/wheeler see above. anyway, they did make the leadership change, get a new coach overhaul. i still think they needed another 3rd liner but that could be easily addressed at the TDL. i guess those who were right about the Jets all the years priors to this should've been parading harder

 

[CorgisPer60]

Glad to hear we agree:

1. Chevy was right last summer (I mean how can you NOT agree that the path he took was the right one based on this seasons results

2. Pomo should have been fired earlier

Remember, I'm talking about last summer - specifically chevy waiting to see what the roster he assembled could do under a new coach before making random knee jerk moves that some people advocated for.

So it's just shifting goal posts for you. Irrespective of the coach and their record this season, my criticism lands firmly on the architect of this. He did the bare minimum again this year, and it somehow worked in this favour. That means he should continue to do the bare minimum? Let's build the maximum straw man. Why are you doing victory laps and giving backpats for getting a C+?

 

[Buffdog]

So it's just shifting goal posts for you. Irrespective of the coach and their record this season, my criticism lands firmly on the architect of this. He did the bare minimum again this year, and it somehow worked in this favour. That means he should continue to do the bare minimum? Let's build the maximum straw man. Why are you doing victory laps and giving backpats for getting a C+?

Maybe the bare minimum was the right thing to do. More isn't always better.

Just to be clear, what would YOU have done? If you're saying he should have done more, what SPECIFICALLY are you referring to?

 

[Buffdog]

people commented on trading scheifele when he came out that in his exit interview, similarly w/ wheeler when it was put out there he was willing to move his nmc to facilitate a trade. if you can't handle discussion of rumors, trade scenarios, perhaps dont enter those threads? similar to the rebuild talk, which i think was a minority.

man people post trades, signings, roster configs all the f***ing time on this forum. idk if you miss them or what. and im sure you'd have a bunch of retorts for any suggestions anyway.

ok you're talking about last summer, now you feel the need to throw a victory parade 40 games in b/c they have a solid record. my point is, can you imagine if those advocated for some moves or coaching changes did victory laps all those years where they accomplished squat? that's how this forum gets divisive and probably why some have left, take breaks etc.

you're right, don't 100% know. im going off what local media folks were saying but no one knows for sure of course. believe it was ken wiebe that the Jets were trying to make "giant moves" like jarnkrok and heinen.


ok that's plausible. but i feel like ppl post about what the latest rumor is then move on. everyone was posting about scheifele's exit-interview and trade scenarios if it came to that. similar to wheeler when it came out he was willing to move his nmc. imo if a poster cant handle ppl discussing the latest news, rumors etc, the internet might not be for them


well he did technically fail if he tried to sign them and they did not. scheifele/wheeler see above. anyway, they did make the leadership change, get a new coach overhaul. i still think they needed another 3rd liner but that could be easily addressed at the TDL. i guess those who were right about the Jets all the years priors to this should've been parading harder

Where am I throwing a victory parade? That's awfully hyperbolic. All I've said is that based on the results so far, whatever chevy did or didn't do last summer seems to be paying off.

If the wheels come falling off and the lockeroom goes to shit because of a move that chevy could have/should have made but didn't, I'll revise my opinion and say I was wrong because I have no problem doing that. In fact, it's the bedrock of constructive discussion. No idea why so many are terrified of the concept

 

[gojetsgo]

ok that's plausible. but i feel like ppl post about what the latest rumor is then move on. everyone was posting about scheifele's exit-interview and trade scenarios if it came to that. similar to wheeler when it came out he was willing to move his nmc. imo if a poster cant handle ppl discussing the latest news, rumors etc, the internet might not be for them

I feel there as a lot more then just talking about the latest rumor then moving on, there were comments saying we needed to trade scheifele saying addition from subtraction or were getting mad that chevy was reportedly not willing to retain to get rid of wheeler or the pages and pages complaining about losing comrie. we even had a poster come here every day to complain that chevy hasn't done anything and now that we are having a good season the poster rarely posts here anymore

"imo if a poster cant handle ppl discussing the latest news, rumors etc, the internet might not be for them"

this is just nonsense, just because you call people out for being wrong doesn't mean you can't handle the internet... like it could easily be turned around and said that if you can't handle being called out then maybe the internet isn't for them, but that's just silly...

 

[CorgisPer60]

Maybe the bare minimum was the right thing to do. More isn't always better.

Just to be clear, what would YOU have done? If you're saying he should have done more, what SPECIFICALLY are you referring to?

I've made my intent very clear. They had a surplus of defense, and they needed forward help. Trade a defenseman for forward. I was all on board the trade Wheeler and Scheifele wagon as well, and Wheeler would have been traded if the Jets were willing to retain salary. I wanted a whole core shake up, because after the last 3 years of bullshit, and Cheveledayoff doing the bare minimum to address it, I wanted it blown up.

I wasn't sold on Rick Bowness, and was barely interested in Trotz. I wanted somebody that would coach a more modern style of defense, kind of like what they are doing in Boston, where another highly prized coaching free agent landed (Montgomery, who I actually wanted).

Those are the moves I wanted done. Instead, we got a runner up for a coach, and some filling around the edges with depth and waiver claims. The forward issues are still there despite assertions to the contrary. I'm sorry, but if anyone could have foreseen the level to which the Jets were going to perform this year with Rick Bowness, give me your crystal ball so I can get the winning lottery tickets. So no, I'm not going to celebrate the victory lap for a race nobody thought we were going to be competing in.

 

[gojetsgo]

I've made my intent very clear. They had a surplus of defense, and they needed forward help. Trade a defenseman for forward. I was all on board the trade Wheeler and Scheifele wagon as well, and Wheeler would have been traded if the Jets were willing to retain salary. I wanted a whole core shake up, because after the last 3 years of bullshit, and Cheveledayoff doing the bare minimum to address it, I wanted it blown up.

I wasn't sold on Rick Bowness, and was barely interested in Trotz. I wanted somebody that would coach a more modern style of defense, kind of like what they are doing in Boston, where another highly prized coaching free agent landed (Montgomery, who I actually wanted).

Those are the moves I wanted done. Instead, we got a runner up for a coach, and some filling around the edges with depth and waiver claims. The forward issues are still there despite assertions to the contrary. I'm sorry, but if anyone could have foreseen the level to which the Jets were going to perform this year with Rick Bowness, give me your crystal ball so I can get the winning lottery tickets. So no, I'm not going to celebrate the victory lap for a race nobody thought we were going to be competing in.

actually there was a few posters that felt that we would be a lot better under a different coaching staff and didn't want to blow it all up until we seen the performance under what would be most of of our players second ever coach..

 

[Buffdog]

I've made my intent very clear. They had a surplus of defense, and they needed forward help. Trade a defenseman for forward. I was all on board the trade Wheeler and Scheifele wagon as well, and Wheeler would have been traded if the Jets were willing to retain salary. I wanted a whole core shake up, because after the last 3 years of bullshit, and Cheveledayoff doing the bare minimum to address it, I wanted it blown up.

I wasn't sold on Rick Bowness, and was barely interested in Trotz. I wanted somebody that would coach a more modern style of defense, kind of like what they are doing in Boston, where another highly prized coaching free agent landed (Montgomery, who I actually wanted).

Those are the moves I wanted done. Instead, we got a runner up for a coach, and some filling around the edges with depth and waiver claims. The forward issues are still there despite assertions to the contrary. I'm sorry, but if anyone could have foreseen the level to which the Jets were going to perform this year with Rick Bowness, give me your crystal ball so I can get the winning lottery tickets. So no, I'm not going to celebrate the victory lap for a race nobody thought we were going to be competing in.

Honest question...

It seems like chevy tried to move a d man but could find a deal. Without knowing what offer(s) he turned down, how do you know that he didn't make the right move (by not making a move)?

And no, I didn't realize the Jets would perform this well. I had no idea how they would perform. Which is why I wanted to wait and see.

 

[CorgisPer60]

It seems like chevy tried to move a d man but could find a deal. Without knowing what offer(s) he turned down, how do you know that he didn't make the right move (by not making a move)?

Quite likely he didn't like the value proposition of a trade from a weakness, so he wanted to see if they could play their way out of their hole. To their credit, they did. By doing nothing, he raised the median level of value around the team. So, good on him for that.

My issue is it falls in line with the rest of his doing nothing mantra. We never find out about the deals that don't happen unless somebody spills the beans. The Jets are still fairly tight lipped, and don't talk about the deals they don't win. So all we have is the perception of them not trying hard enough, and then getting players we don't like because of excuses that get trotted out every single time. I'm tired of celebrating Cheveldayoff for doing the same thing he does every time, but it working out in his favour this time.

Quick question: how long have Jets fans been crying about them changing the coaching staff? Defense, special teams, goalie, head coach. All of it under the purview of one person. Why 11 years in are we finally getting that change? That's my biggest f***ing frustration. It took such a colossally inept season for actual tangible change to happen to that coaching staff, and they didn't even do it willingly. They let contracts expire and a coach quit. Sorry if I'm not celebrating that.

 

[tbcwpg]

ok that's plausible. but i feel like ppl post about what the latest rumor is then move on. everyone was posting about scheifele's exit-interview and trade scenarios if it came to that. similar to wheeler when it came out he was willing to move his nmc. imo if a poster cant handle ppl discussing the latest news, rumors etc, the internet might not be for them


well he did technically fail if he tried to sign them and they did not. scheifele/wheeler see above. anyway, they did make the leadership change, get a new coach overhaul. i still think they needed another 3rd liner but that could be easily addressed at the TDL. i guess those who were right about the Jets all the years priors to this should've been parading harder

I agree with the 3rd liner addition - I think Jarnkrok especially would've helped this team. I just think trade is more likely than FA and I can't really fault them for wanting to give some of the drafted guys a shot. To be honest I think a Jarnkrok type makes more sense now that the team is competitive than it did at the start of the season.

 

[Buffdog]

Quite likely he didn't like the value proposition of a trade from a weakness, so he wanted to see if they could play their way out of their hole. To their credit, they did. By doing nothing, he raised the median level of value around the team. So, good on him for that.

My issue is it falls in line with the rest of his doing nothing mantra. We never find out about the deals that don't happen unless somebody spills the beans. The Jets are still fairly tight lipped, and don't talk about the deals they don't win. So all we have is the perception of them not trying hard enough, and then getting players we don't like because of excuses that get trotted out every single time. I'm tired of celebrating Cheveldayoff for doing the same thing he does every time, but it working out in his favour this time.

Quick question: how long have Jets fans been crying about them changing the coaching staff? Defense, special teams, goalie, head coach. All of it under the purview of one person. Why 11 years in are we finally getting that change? That's my biggest f***ing frustration. It took such a colossally inept season for actual tangible change to happen to that coaching staff, and they didn't even do it willingly. They let contracts expire and a coach quit. Sorry if I'm not celebrating that.

I don't disagree with how the coaching situation was handled. But I felt like that's a different convo than the one we're having about last summer.

I think the play we are seeing is more a reflection of the pesonel changes chevy made two summers ago to shore up the D.

This roster (on paper) is achieving closer to what it ought to this year vs the results they got last year. AND to be completely honest, I figured we'd be a wild card team this year, not in the hunt for 1st in the division. My gut still says that's a more likely finish to the season but where we stand league wide in goal differential and points percentage makes it hard to argue that this is a fluke

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Wow.

I thought I was keeping up on Jets news while back on the coast for two weeks, so it was a real surprise to return to Winnipeg and discover this in today's paper. I don't know how I missed hearing about this; I thought he'd only gotten a penis injury.

Just wow.

View attachment 630334

Well, if his penis is gone, he may as well be gone too

 

[Gm0ney]

Either that or management knows better than you and they were right and you were wrong.

Tough concept to wrap your head around, I know

It's especially tough to wrap my head around because I was right about Maurice and the coaching staff for years and they were wrong even after Maurice himself finally quit.

 

[Atoyot]

and they wouldn't be there if we didn't have so many injuries, of course we are relying heavily on a few players right now, we have 7 regulars out and once they come back it will take the burden off the top guys to carry every night, the fact that we have been around .500 with our injuries should give people optimism of this team when they get healthy

Yeah but it only took 1 injury to have 1 person in the top 6 that shouldn't be there. We have all the depth in the world for the bottom 6 but nobody who can step up competently into the top 6 when needed.

 

[Buffdog]

It's especially tough to wrap my head around because I was right about Maurice and the coaching staff for years and they were wrong even after Maurice himself finally quit.

In that instance, yes. But that doesn't mean you're always right and they're always wrong.

This place needs some nuance

 

[CorgisPer60]

Yeah but it only took 1 injury to have 1 person in the top 6 that shouldn't be there. We have all the depth in the world for the bottom 6 but nobody who can step up competently into the top 6 when needed.

This. Cheveldayoff failed to adequately address this, and continues to fail to address it outside of waiver claims and seemingly praying that people get healthy enough to come back. The Jets' forward depth is bad. It needed addressing in the off season, at the start of the season, and continues to be an issue. For lack of trying? Don't know.

I don't disagree with how the coaching situation was handled. But I felt like that's a different convo than the one we're having about last summer.

I disagree about it being a different convo. He shored up the defense by getting Schmidt and Dillon 2 seasons ago, but they still massively underperformed with the rest of the team, due to coaching. He mishandled the coaching to such a degree that the decision was made for him, and it was the easiest decision that he had to make this past summer. The team got worse on paper this past off-season, but is doing better because of coaching and systems. He found some value players to fill around the edges, but the core of the team is still there. I'd term that "finding your asshole with both hands". Either way, you're touching shit.

 

[Howard Chuck]

This is so true.

Those that were advocating for a measured approach considering we were changing a critical piece of the puzzle were doing so in the basis of logic.

Those screaming for change to players were doing it because of fomo and emotion.

Even if we were to make significant roster changes, it's only logical to have the new staff and systems installed before doing that.

It's almost like someone with a blown engine wanting to get fancy tires and a new paint job instead of fixing the damn engine

Absolutely. I believed that Schief, Ehlers, KC, Helle, Morrissey, PLD, Wheeler etc were all very good pieces of a winning team. I hoped we could keep them all. All I wanted was a coach that could make them all play on the same page and make them a team.

I did think that Wheeler had to go, but in hindsight that was based on gossip I read on the internet.

I’m ecstatic that we kept everyone and some others have been allowed to step up.

Not sure how there could be any negativity on these threads right now.

 

[Buffdog]

This. Cheveldayoff failed to adequately address this, and continues to fail to address it outside of waiver claims and seemingly praying that people get healthy enough to come back. The Jets' forward depth is bad. It needed addressing in the off season, at the start of the season, and continues to be an issue. For lack of trying? Don't know.



I disagree about it being a different convo. He shored up the defense by getting Schmidt and Dillon 2 seasons ago, but they still massively underperformed with the rest of the team, due to coaching. He mishandled the coaching to such a degree that the decision was made for him, and it was the easiest decision that he had to make this past summer. The team got worse on paper this past off-season, but is doing better because of coaching and systems. He found some value players to fill around the edges, but the core of the team is still there. I'd term that "finding your asshole with both hands". Either way, you're touching shit.

You're sounding like some posters after we win but get out-corsi'd or our xGF'd. "We won, but we did it wrong"

Sitting 7th in the league because of the moves chevy made, but he didn't do it right so we're pissed

 

[gojetsgo]

so I guess chevy is just some incompetent gm who lucked into where we are... there was apparently plenty of middle 6 forwards we could have grabbed that were willing to come here even though it was reported we offered more money and were turned down... we have horrible depth even though we stayed around .500 while missing 6 regulars...

 

[Howard Chuck]

 

[Jets 31]

Hey guys we are 24-13-1, great record and we are now starting to get healthy.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Hey guys we are 24-13-1, great record and we are now starting to get healthy.

 

[CorgisPer60]

You're sounding like some posters after we win but get out-corsi'd or our xGF'd. "We won, but we did it wrong"

Sitting 7th in the league because of the moves chevy made, but he didn't do it right so we're pissed

I'm not angry about it at all; I just don't want to congratulate him for doing the bare minimum. That's it.

so I guess chevy is just some incompetent gm who lucked into where we are... there was apparently plenty of middle 6 forwards we could have grabbed that were willing to come here even though it was reported we offered more money and were turned down... we have horrible depth even though we stayed around .500 while missing 6 regulars...

Nor is he an incompetent GM. He is a perfectly average GM. If you want incompetence, look over in Edmonton or Vancouver. I'm also a strong advocate for never going big game hunting in the off-season. I will always advocate for trading for players with term. Getting a willing UFA to sign here is a bit like a unicorn, so you have to do things other than sign players, like trade for them. I didn't want anyone to be signed in the off-season. I was all on that trade wagon.

 

[voyageur]

Yeah but it only took 1 injury to have 1 person in the top 6 that shouldn't be there. We have all the depth in the world for the bottom 6 but nobody who can step up competently into the top 6 when needed.

That was Kristian Reichel with the game winning assist against the Oilers on a strong positional play, Sam Gagner with the GWG last night. Mason Appleton had some strong games in there, the one against the defending champs stands out in my mind. Adam Lowry has made some plays in the top 6. Other than Lowry who has a clear role, those are guys that stepped up. I know there was a lot of talk about Milano and Rodrigues, but I doubt those kind of guys had the time of day for Winnipeg. And Milano is just a glorified Gagner, contributing no PK abilities for the bottom 6. I don't know what folks expect, but I am really happy with the overall makeup of the team. I'm glad Chevy identified special teams as the area that needed the most improvement because I'm pretty sure you can knock off about 8 points at this point with the special teams output last year. The top end talent can pull their own weight, we've seen that again and again this year.

 

[surixon]

This. Cheveldayoff failed to adequately address this, and continues to fail to address it outside of waiver claims and seemingly praying that people get healthy enough to come back. The Jets' forward depth is bad. It needed addressing in the off season, at the start of the season, and continues to be an issue. For lack of trying? Don't know.



I disagree about it being a different convo. He shored up the defense by getting Schmidt and Dillon 2 seasons ago, but they still massively underperformed with the rest of the team, due to coaching. He mishandled the coaching to such a degree that the decision was made for him, and it was the easiest decision that he had to make this past summer. The team got worse on paper this past off-season, but is doing better because of coaching and systems. He found some value players to fill around the edges, but the core of the team is still there. I'd term that "finding your asshole with both hands". Either way, you're touching shit.

Not trying to make excuses for him but name one forward that has moved so far this year that would have fit what we needed to manage our injuries? No one as of yet has made any non depth type trades and we aren't the only team that has holes to fill. Methinks it's harder then most seem to think in a flat cap league to find not only players that you need but teams that are willing to move them and take cap back.