Post-Game Talk: Jets 3 - Clutch and Grabbers 2

[DRW204]

Colorado is full of holes that needed to be filled with injuries. Haven’t been filled very well for first half of season. By @CorgisPer60 does that make Sakic just an average GM?

sakic isn't the gm, but agree with your overall point. there's several teams that have been more injured than the Jets which has resulted in 0 significant NHL trades this season.

that's why i've been not been as warm as other posters that Chevy will make a trade during the season, it's not common for him (prior to the tdl) and no other teams are making moves.

 

[Stumbledore]

Hardly. There's a lot more to a man than just his pull toy.

Truly words to live by.

 

[Inanna]

Truly words to live by.

Well, I don't have the extensive hockey knowledge of many of the men in here and I just watch games for fun without all their analysis of who was supposed to do what. And I don't follow trades or players or contracts or strategy or financial deals. I skim through the longer back-and-forth exchanges but I don't have the passion to really argue anything in here.

So, I mostly just comment on the peripheral aspects of hockey or the silly side stuff that amuses me. I've gotten about 950 likes on fewer than 200 postings so I'm thinking that other HF members enjoy a different kind of view now and then and a bit of nonsense is a break from the serious business of analytics and fighting over trades that should or shouldn't have been made and when's the best time to fire a coach.

But one thing I never get tired of: Go Jets Go!

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Tampa lost to Minny pretty soundly after 3 wins (Chi/Ari/NYR).
Reading the small amount of posts after the game Vas was sick and not able to play against the Wild.
TB fans were also complaining about the line configuration making them a 1-line team (hmmm sounds familiar from not too long ago).

Hopefully their goalie misses our game or has an off game vs us.
We can always hope.

 

[Weezeric]

Well, I don't have the extensive hockey knowledge of many of the men in here and I just watch games for fun without all their analysis of who was supposed to do what. And I don't follow trades or players or contracts or strategy or financial deals. I skim through the longer back-and-forth exchanges but I don't have the passion to really argue anything in here.

So, I mostly just comment on the peripheral aspects of hockey or the silly side stuff that amuses me. I've gotten about 950 likes on fewer than 200 postings so I'm thinking that other HF members enjoy a different kind of view now and then and a bit of nonsense is a break from the serious business of analytics and fighting over trades that should or shouldn't have been made and when's the best time to fire a coach.

But one thing I never get tired of: Go Jets Go!

A perspective other than that of stats nerds and old school hockey men is both needed and appreciated around here.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Glad to hear we agree:

1. Chevy was right last summer (I mean how can you NOT agree that the path he took was the right one based on this seasons results

2. Pomo should have been fired earlier

Remember, I'm talking about last summer - specifically chevy waiting to see what the roster he assembled could do under a new coach before making random knee jerk moves that some people advocated for.

Just so I have this right: Chevy wanted to see what the roster he assembled 3 years ago could do under a new coach? So he correctly identified that coaching was the achilles' heel holding the team back all along but simultaneously sat on his hands for almost 1000 days while the team floundered and fans stopped renewing their tickets or showing up to games. Chevy was so convinced that all we needed was a new coach that, in what might be a first in professional sports history, the old mediocre coach, the losingest coach in NHL history, who had never won anything and who wasn't retiring actually had to fire himself. That makes a lot of sense actually.

 

[Jets 31]

Just so I have this right: Chevy wanted to see what the roster he assembled 3 years ago could do under a new coach? So he correctly identified that coaching was the achilles' heel holding the team back all along but simultaneously sat on his hands for almost 1000 days while the team floundered and fans stopped renewing their tickets or showing up to games. Chevy was so convinced that all we needed was a new coach that, in what might be a first in professional sports history, the old mediocre coach, the losingest coach in NHL history, who had never won anything and who wasn't retiring actually had to fire himself. That makes a lot of sense actually.

Agree that doesn't make any sense unless Chipman wouldn't let Chevy fire Maurice. I have no idea if this was the case but then this would make sense, it wouldn't be right but it would make sense.

 

[DRW204]

Just so I have this right: Chevy wanted to see what the roster he assembled 3 years ago could do under a new coach? So he correctly identified that coaching was the achilles' heel holding the team back all along but simultaneously sat on his hands for almost 1000 days while the team floundered and fans stopped renewing their tickets or showing up to games. Chevy was so convinced that all we needed was a new coach that, in what might be a first in professional sports history, the old mediocre coach, the losingest coach in NHL history, who had never won anything and who wasn't retiring actually had to fire himself. That makes a lot of sense actually.

you forgot the unique, yet so far unproven, differentiator that qualifies Jets transactions on these boards.

bad move = chipman
good move = chevy

 

[JetsUK]

Quite likely he didn't like the value proposition of a trade from a weakness, so he wanted to see if they could play their way out of their hole. To their credit, they did. By doing nothing, he raised the median level of value around the team. So, good on him for that.

My issue is it falls in line with the rest of his doing nothing mantra. We never find out about the deals that don't happen unless somebody spills the beans. The Jets are still fairly tight lipped, and don't talk about the deals they don't win. So all we have is the perception of them not trying hard enough, and then getting players we don't like because of excuses that get trotted out every single time. I'm tired of celebrating Cheveldayoff for doing the same thing he does every time, but it working out in his favour this time.

Quick question: how long have Jets fans been crying about them changing the coaching staff? Defense, special teams, goalie, head coach. All of it under the purview of one person. Why 11 years in are we finally getting that change? That's my biggest f***ing frustration. It took such a colossally inept season for actual tangible change to happen to that coaching staff, and they didn't even do it willingly. They let contracts expire and a coach quit. Sorry if I'm not celebrating that.

Have to agree with this bit. It took long losing streaks, brutal on-ice play and a quiet revolt of the players to finally shift PoMo and then we had... Dave Lowry, still worse play and results and an open and prolonged player revolt before the rest of the coaches were... not re-signed, and a new staff brought in.

I'm super happy to see a rejuvenated team posting strong results while seemingly rediscovering its collective love for the game, and props to all who've had a hand in it. But it's hard to forget the years of listless play, weak coaching and clear player unrest that made Matt Hendricks the team's official player/ motivator, the drafting in of plug after plug on D that left prospects going weeks or longer without playing, the depressive tactic of playing not to win but to not lose for at least a few seasons straight, the cringeworthy postgame excuses and then the still more cringeworthy pregame excuses....

It's like any relationship. You don't automatically forget the old ones because new ones move into view. There's overhang. And while winning solves plenty it doesn't erase the years of losing ugly in the first 40-odd games. Systems take time to clean and recharge. To paraphrase Chris Rock, you don't deserve kudos for doing the least you can do.

Not to mention a failure with a player like that is harder to manage.

With the guys we have, if they don't work out, you can just waive them, nbd

This.

Sometimes small wins are the best wins.

 

[Andy6]

Agree that doesn't make any sense unless Chipman wouldn't let Chevy fire Maurice. I have no idea if this was the case but then this would make sense, it wouldn't be right but it would make sense.

They'd made the postseason four years running and got off to as good a start last season as they did this season (for the first while anyway). I guess they could have fired Maurice but it wasn't exactly an obvious move. I think in reality you do need to change it up once in a while even if the coach is doing a good job overall, but in Winnipeg you have to factor in the difficulty of attracting strong replacements.

 

[kanadalainen]

Well, I don't have the extensive hockey knowledge of many of the men in here and I just watch games for fun without all their analysis of who was supposed to do what. And I don't follow trades or players or contracts or strategy or financial deals. I skim through the longer back-and-forth exchanges but I don't have the passion to really argue anything in here.

So, I mostly just comment on the peripheral aspects of hockey or the silly side stuff that amuses me. I've gotten about 950 likes on fewer than 200 postings so I'm thinking that other HF members enjoy a different kind of view now and then and a bit of nonsense is a break from the serious business of analytics and fighting over trades that should or shouldn't have been made and when's the best time to fire a coach.

But one thing I never get tired of: Go Jets Go!

Damn! Very well stated.

 

[Gm0ney]

In that instance, yes. But that doesn't mean you're always right and they're always wrong.

This place needs some nuance

I dunno, it seemed pretty relevant in response to a post bemoaning the fact that some people were mad about Chevy's offseason.

It's a bit rich that you were trying to take victory lap for your unwavering faith in spite of the facts that over the summer, the team was in disarray - Wheeler moved his family back to Minnesota and asked for a trade; Scheifele sounded unsure about his future here; Dubois wanted out. We were heading into the last two years of Scheifele and Hellebuyck's deals. Was Scheifele even good any more? Coming off a season where we missed the playoffs then missed out on our top choice for head coach. This was the recipe for your "hey this roster was supposed to be a contender a year ago so let's see what happens with a new coach first" attitude?

There's a pattern to Jets management's decision making. 1) They're very slow to recognize problems. 2) It seems like they're in denial that a problem actually exists for a long time. 3) Finally the problem gets fixed (or fixes itself). 4) Huzzah for Chevy and his true believers! #InChevyWeTrust

 

[Buffdog]

Just so I have this right: Chevy wanted to see what the roster he assembled 3 years ago could do under a new coach? So he correctly identified that coaching was the achilles' heel holding the team back all along but simultaneously sat on his hands for almost 1000 days while the team floundered and fans stopped renewing their tickets or showing up to games. Chevy was so convinced that all we needed was a new coach that, in what might be a first in professional sports history, the old mediocre coach, the losingest coach in NHL history, who had never won anything and who wasn't retiring actually had to fire himself. That makes a lot of sense actually.

That's right, except it wasn't a team he assembled "three years ago", it was the one he assembled "one year ago" when he acquired Dillon and Schmidt to shore up the D.

Where are you getting this "1000 days" from?

Also, pomo is 6th all time on the wins list. When you factor in the shit teams he had in Hartford, Carolina and Toronto his record isn't total shit. If you're gonna go by "the one with the most losses sucks" then I guess you think Marty Brodeur sucks because he has the most losses of any NHL goalie all time

 

[Buffdog]

I dunno, it seemed pretty relevant in response to a post bemoaning the fact that some people were mad about Chevy's offseason.

It's a bit rich that you were trying to take victory lap for your unwavering faith in spite of the facts that over the summer, the team was in disarray - Wheeler moved his family back to Minnesota and asked for a trade; Scheifele sounded unsure about his future here; Dubois wanted out. We were heading into the last two years of Scheifele and Hellebuyck's deals. Was Scheifele even good any more? Coming off a season where we missed the playoffs then missed out on our top choice for head coach. This was the recipe for your "hey this roster was supposed to be a contender a year ago so let's see what happens with a new coach first" attitude?

There's a pattern to Jets management's decision making. 1) They're very slow to recognize problems. 2) It seems like they're in denial that a problem actually exists for a long time. 3) Finally the problem gets fixed (or fixes itself). 4) Huzzah for Chevy and his true believers! #InChevyWeTrust

What exactly are you saying?

Isn't the goal to assemble a roster and pair it with a coach to win games? Chevy did that. You can call it whatever you want, but he succeeded.

And the only thing I'm taking a victory lap for is for waiting to see what happened before judging the offseason a win or a loss. But apparently since you decided it was a loss BEFORE the season started, you'll drum up any and all shit you can to prove your point.

The only problem is this:

 

[Blue Shakehead]

That's right, except it wasn't a team he assembled "three years ago", it was the one he assembled "one year ago" when he acquired Dillon and Schmidt to shore up the D.

Where are you getting this "1000 days" from?

Also, pomo is 6th all time on the wins list. When you factor in the shit teams he had in Hartford, Carolina and Toronto his record isn't total shit. If you're gonna go by "the one with the most losses sucks" then I guess you think Marty Brodeur sucks because he has the most losses of any NHL goalie all time

The Florida Panthers went from winning the Presidents Trophy to a lottery team in a few short months. They went from the 6th best power play and a league-average PK to having some of the worst of the league in both categories. They have lost as many games though their first 39 this year than they did all of last year. Its a real mystery about what's happening down in Florida. Maybe we can get Keith Morrison on the case.

 

[Buffdog]

The Florida Panthers went from winning the Presidents Trophy to a lottery team in a few short months. They went from the 6th best power play and a league-average PK to having some of the worst of the league in both categories. They have lost as many games though their first 39 this year than they did all of last year. Its a real mystery about what's happening down in Florida. Maybe we can get Keith Morrison on the case.

They've also had shit goaltending, injuries on D and terrible puck luck. Not to mention the huge changes in the summer (of which bringing Maurice in was one).

They are better than their record this year but they weren't as good as their record last year either.

But since it suits your narrative, it's all pomo's fault (and to be honest, some of it is).

 

[surixon]

I dunno, it seemed pretty relevant in response to a post bemoaning the fact that some people were mad about Chevy's offseason.

It's a bit rich that you were trying to take victory lap for your unwavering faith in spite of the facts that over the summer, the team was in disarray - Wheeler moved his family back to Minnesota and asked for a trade; Scheifele sounded unsure about his future here; Dubois wanted out. We were heading into the last two years of Scheifele and Hellebuyck's deals. Was Scheifele even good any more? Coming off a season where we missed the playoffs then missed out on our top choice for head coach. This was the recipe for your "hey this roster was supposed to be a contender a year ago so let's see what happens with a new coach first" attitude?

There's a pattern to Jets management's decision making. 1) They're very slow to recognize problems. 2) It seems like they're in denial that a problem actually exists for a long time. 3) Finally the problem gets fixed (or fixes itself). 4) Huzzah for Chevy and his true believers! #InChevyWeTrust

I mean realistically what could Chevy have done last offseason to make major changes to the roster? As you indicated we has a bunch of disgruntled players who in large part under performed. Should he have traded off some of those distressed assets for pennies on the dollar?

I'm sure he floated all of Wheeler, Scheifele, PLD around last offseason and likely got no offers anywhere close to acceptable. His job first and foremost is to be the steward of the orgs assets and its hard to give him anything but a good grade on that given how much all our players have rebounded.

Now I fully agree it never should have gotten that point but I personally put way more blame on that on the owners plate than on Chevy's. It was Chipman that announced the contract extension, it was Chipman that put out that Athletic article a year ago raving about Moe and stating he didn't believe in shelf lives. So I think it's pretty clear the owner got in the way of Chevy being able to do his job in that aspect.

Also I take a bit of issues with the org not fixing issues. It didn't take them that long to fix Noel as a coach. The defense was really only left in a poor state one year. They grabbed Demo in 2020 and grabbed Dillion and Schmidt the summer of 2021.

Buff hung them up 19/20

 

[CorgisPer60]

 

[CorgisPer60]

They've also had shit goaltending, injuries on D and terrible puck luck. Not to mention the huge changes in the summer (of which bringing Maurice in was one).

They are better than their record this year but they weren't as good as their record last year either.

But since it suits your narrative, it's all pomo's fault (and to be honest, some of it is).

Not to beat a dead horse, but these are the same extenuating circumstances that absolved Paul Maurice of his share of the blame for the win-loss record here. There's always a caveat with him. Maybe he's just a mediocre coach that can't adjust.

 

[Jets 31]

Those lines make me very happy.Wheeler, Ehlers and Perfetti all back would be awesome.

 

[Buffdog]

Not to beat a dead horse, but these are the same extenuating circumstances that absolved Paul Maurice of his share of the blame for the win-loss record here. There's always a caveat with him. Maybe he's just a mediocre coach that can't adjust.

I absolutely think he's a mediocre coach that can't adjust. In fact helle probably made him look better than he actually was in his time here.

But not everything here was his fault, nor is averything in sunrise. The difference is that the terrible goaltending has magnified things instead of minimalizing them

 

[CorgisPer60]

Also I take a bit of issues with the org not fixing issues. It didn't take them that long to fix Noel as a coach. The defense was really only left in a poor state one year. They grabbed Demo in 2020 and grabbed Dillion and Schmidt the summer of 2021.

Who they left exposed for Seattle to take so they could protect a bottom pairing replacement defenseman. I'd say the defensive impact this season is more about the five man defensive unit instead of just the defensemen. Forwards aren't cheating offense and shying away from defense like they were the last three seasons. Having the NHL caliber defensemen makes it a lot easier to play that game. Look at how scrambly they get when Samberg, Heinola, or Stanley start fighting the puck. Meanwhile, Dillon, Schmidt, and Pionk commit just as many scrambling plays, yet they are somehow unassailable to a section of our audience.

I absolutely think he's a mediocre coach that can't adjust. In fact helle probably made him look better than he actually was in his time here.

But not everything here was his fault, nor is averything in sunrise. The difference is that the terrible goaltending has magnified things instead of minimalizing them

Having a top three goaltender in the world kind of spoiled Maurice, because now he actually has to game around having a goaltender that might not stop the next puck. So, yeah. There's that.

 

[Guardian17]

Looks like Vasilevskiy caught the dreaded "Winnipeg Flu" that plagued Mario Lemieux in the early 90s.

 

[Jets 31]

Looks like Vasilevskiy caught the dreaded "Winnipeg Flu" that plagued Mario Lemieux in the early 90s.

 

[surixon]

Who they left exposed for Seattle to take so they could protect a bottom pairing replacement defenseman. I'd say the defensive impact this season is more about the five man defensive unit instead of just the defensemen. Forwards aren't cheating offense and shying away from defense like they were the last three seasons. Having the NHL caliber defensemen makes it a lot easier to play that game. Look at how scrambly they get when Samberg, Heinola, or Stanley start fighting the puck. Meanwhile, Dillon, Schmidt, and Pionk commit just as many scrambling plays, yet they are somehow unassailable to a section of our audience.



Having a top three goaltender in the world kind of spoiled Maurice, because now he actually has to game around having a goaltender that might not stop the next puck. So, yeah. There's that.

Seems to me he did his due diligence and knew the market value of his players and navigated the expansion draft correctly. In the end we lost a 3/4 line RW.

Well yeah having a good 5 man system helps but this is the NHL in 2022/23 and 5 man units in both offensive and defensive game states is how all good teams operate. The fact Moe couldn't grasp that is yet another strike against him.