Tribute Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck

[jaffy27]

“Yeah, it is a lesson. I can say that,” Bergevin said. “To be honest, I’m not perfect. We do make sometimes not the right decision, but it’s always to try to do it for the right reasons. I remember he had a great camp, good first half, I remember he was playing very well and I’m like, ‘OK, he is ready.’ But now I’m looking back three or four years later and the way it happens.

“But also, there’s things that I saw the last two years that I don’t think that would have changed. It could have, to a degree, but there’s other stuff that I know it’s more than just going back to Finland. But to your answer, yes, it’s something that we’ll watch closely moving forward.”

How anyone can read these quotes or even listen to Bergevin's press conference yesterday and still not come away with the conclusion that he admitted it was a mistake to graduate him at 18yrs old is beyond me.

And somehow, I'M the one who doesn't know what i'm talking about...like I just made these quotes up.

100% he admitted they brought him up to fast, and even said that they'd have to self evaluate on their strategy of bringing up young players (when asked about lessons learned with Caufield and others coming up the ranks)

At least this is how I understood it.

Of course once here, then some of the responsibility also falls on KK, the tools are shown to him, it's on the player now to commit himself to becoming a better hockey player. according to management he obviously did not follow the protocol hence the shortcomings.

Moral of this story is unless he's an absolute talent and has dominated all his levels which KK did not, let him stew for a few years and don't let your NHL teams needs dictate how you will handle the player

 

[jaffy27]

Oh look...they're on the radio talking about Bergevin admitting he made a mistake.

I guess they don't know what they're talking about either, neither does all of the writers who wrote articles saying the same thing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

100% he admitted they brought him up to fast, and even said that they'd have to self evaluate on their strategy of bringing up young players (when asked about lessons learned with Caufield and others coming up the ranks)

At least this is how I understood it.

Of course once here, then some of the responsibility also falls on KK, the tools are shown to him, it's on the player now to commit himself to becoming a better hockey player. according to management he obviously did not follow the protocol hence the shortcomings.

Moral of this story is unless he's an absolute talent and has dominated all his levels which KK did not, let him stew for a few years and don't let your NHL teams needs dictate how you will handle the player

100% agree. Lets see if they learned their lesson on Norlinder and Guhle in camp this year. They should only make it if they show exceptional ability and with D, it starts with play in their own end. Offensive ability is bonus but they have to be trusted in their own end first.

 

[jaffy27]

100% agree. Lets see if they learned their lesson on Norlinder and Guhle in camp this year. They should only make it if they show exceptional ability and with D, it starts with play in their own end. Offensive ability is bonus but they have to be trusted in their own end first.

I 100% don't want to see Guhle in Habs lineup.....I'm not sure if he's AHL eligible but that's where I'd send him. Not sure where Norlinder is in his development. If he comes here and blows everyone out of the water then sure, I know he put up some nice numbers in Sweden but I'm not sure about his overall play.

 

[Cookie007]

KK is going to turn out to the same as his childhood idol… Joel armia. He’s playing 3rd line LW for the canes. Size and some luck possession with solid defensive skill set. But can’t score for the life of him or will score in spurts.

don’t let the 3rd overall pick blind you. The player to draft was Brady tkatchuk (as I have said all last season and have gotten threats for just even mentioning about it).
In a redraft right now. Where do you think KK even lands? Late first to early 2nd?

 

[BarracudaMtl]

Good luck to him in Carolina, but Im going to boo the crap out him next season

 

[Ozmodiar]

100% he admitted they brought him up to fast, and even said that they'd have to self evaluate on their strategy of bringing up young players (when asked about lessons learned with Caufield and others coming up the ranks)

At least this is how I understood it.

Of course once here, then some of the responsibility also falls on KK, the tools are shown to him, it's on the player now to commit himself to becoming a better hockey player. according to management he obviously did not follow the protocol hence the shortcomings.

Moral of this story is unless he's an absolute talent and has dominated all his levels which KK did not, let him stew for a few years and don't let your NHL teams needs dictate how you will handle the player

He definitely admitted his mistake.

However, I get the impression that if MB had a do-over he wouldn’t have drafted KK at all. … yeah, he should have stayed in Finland but it wouldn’t have corrected some issues we’re still seeing.

 

[417]

100% he admitted they brought him up to fast, and even said that they'd have to self evaluate on their strategy of bringing up young players (when asked about lessons learned with Caufield and others coming up the ranks)

At least this is how I understood it.

Of course once here, then some of the responsibility also falls on KK, the tools are shown to him, it's on the player now to commit himself to becoming a better hockey player. according to management he obviously did not follow the protocol hence the shortcomings.

Moral of this story is unless he's an absolute talent and has dominated all his levels which KK did not, let him stew for a few years and don't let your NHL teams needs dictate how you will handle the player

It's how everyone understood it...at least almost everyone.

 

[Ozmodiar]

KK is going to turn out to the same as his childhood idol… Joel armia. He’s playing 3rd line LW for the canes. Size and some luck possession with solid defensive skill set. But can’t score for the life of him or will score in spurts.

don’t let the 3rd overall pick blind you. The player to draft was Brady tkatchuk (as I have said all last season and have gotten threats for just even mentioning about it).
In a redraft right now. Where do you think KK even lands? Late first to early 2nd?

From?

 

[417]

100% agree. Lets see if they learned their lesson on Norlinder and Guhle in camp this year. They should only make it if they show exceptional ability and with D, it starts with play in their own end. Offensive ability is bonus but they have to be trusted in their own end first.

Even with Guhle...let's say he comes to camp and kills it.

Send him back (and this goes against what i've said traditionally but i'm changing my stance on this, i've underestimated how much the market of Montreal changes the perception of reality) to Prince Albert.

It's fine that he has a great camp but come late February in the middle of a playoff run, we know god damn well the coaching staff will be scratching him as the going gets tough. Nevermind the playoffs should they get there.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Even with Guhle...let's say he comes to camp and kills it.

Send him back (and this goes against what i've said traditionally but i'm changing my stance on this, i've underestimated how much the market of Montreal changes the perception of reality) to Prince Albert.

It's fine that he has a great camp but come late February in the middle of a playoff run, we know god damn well the coaching staff will be scratching him as the going gets tough. Nevermind the playoffs should they get there.

I think we would all agree with Guhle cause he would certainly fall into that situation where he needs to play and dominate the WHL and maybe even a AHL season after that before you consider him filling a hole.

With Norlinder, it's more interesting but I feel he has not dominated either the Allsvenskan or SHL leagues yet. Have not watched him last year in the SHL but I hear his usage was high but with a bit of bad luck. His -9 rating was worse on his team (D only). So I wonder... When can we expect him to be mature in his own end cause his skating/offensive game is his value.

 

[417]

I think we would all agree with Guhle cause he would certainly fall into that situation where he needs to play and dominate the WHL and maybe even a AHL season after that before you consider him filling a hole.

With Norlinder, it's more interesting but I feel he has not dominated either the Allsvenskan or SHL leagues yet. Have not watched him last year in the SHL but I hear his usage was high but with a bit of bad luck. His -9 rating was worse on his team (D only). So I wonder... When can we expect him to be mature in his own end cause his skating/offensive game is his value.

To me...that's where it's at though.

That's what he's going to bring to this team and it's elements no one else has besides Petry.

But knowing the Habs, they will not sacrifice defensive responsibility for offensive contribution, especially not from their defense...so expect to see some lapses defensively as he grows accustomed to the NHL.

If that's not something the coaching staff is willing to live with, then he shouldn't be in the NHL...this needs to be clear between the GM and the coaching staff.

 

[jaffy27]

I think we would all agree with Guhle cause he would certainly fall into that situation where he needs to play and dominate the WHL and maybe even a AHL season after that before you consider him filling a hole.

With Norlinder, it's more interesting but I feel he has not dominated either the Allsvenskan or SHL leagues yet. Have not watched him last year in the SHL but I hear his usage was high but with a bit of bad luck. His -9 rating was worse on his team (D only). So I wonder... When can we expect him to be mature in his own end cause his skating/offensive game is his value.

WHL would be great too, plus he'll captain that U20 team, this is like gold for his development. Maybe he gets traded to a WHL favorite and wins the west and maybe a Memorial Cup appearance, this was Suzuki's path and it worked out pretty good for him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

To me...that's where it's at though.

That's what he's going to bring to this team and it's elements no one else has besides Petry.

But knowing the Habs, they will not sacrifice defensive responsibility for offensive contribution, especially not from their defense...so expect to see some lapses defensively as he grows accustomed to the NHL.

If that's not something the coaching staff is willing to live with, then he shouldn't be in the NHL...this needs to be clear between the GM and the coaching staff.

I honestly think they will keep the KK situation in their back pockets and not forget it. Bergevin has spend his cap space during Covid derailment and I feel that we have enough depth to ice a competitive team (bubble team or not) without having to rush guys anymore. With our deep pool, I feel it will also create competition in Laval and that is good for development cause if they want to make the NHL, they look around and see all the options so go out there, bust your ass off, and make yourself noticeable.

Knowing what I know today?
* Guhle for one more WHL season and one AHL year. NHL ready (possibly) at the age of 21/22.
* Norlinder for one more SHL season and one AHL year (maybe). NHL ready at the age of 22/23.
* Harris for one more NCAA year and maybe one AHL year. NHL ready at the age of 23/24.

Basically, age 22/23 is where we should be thinking about many of these guys making the NHL. If it happens before that, they are forcing our hand as complete packages at both ends of the ice with little flaws (like Romanov).

 

[Forsead]

It's crazy how so many are talking like his development is finished and he's a 25 years old player with over 300 gp. He played 171 regular season games, that's pretty much equivalent to two "normal" seasons, and he played in a weird COVID context. He's also so young and when he played in lower leagues, his production was dominating (PPG in AHL and almost PPG in Finland).

This will be an embarassing loss.

 

[Habs Halifax]

WHL would be great too, plus he'll captain that U20 team, this is like gold for his development. Maybe he gets traded to a WHL favorite and wins the west and maybe a Memorial Cup appearance, this was Suzuki's path and it worked out pretty good for him.

Gradual uphill climbs where you allow them to dominate development leagues is the smarter path. Even with Caufield last year, I had my doubts what he would do but he was able to produce but also not be a defensive liability. A lot of us are crowning him as the #1RW heading into this year and not counting on a set back but we should be open to it. This way, we don't set up the kid to fail or have too much expectations. Keep the expectations and pressure low on these young guys. Montreal management and fans both have to learn that. That even applies to Suzuki to some degree.

Poehling learned that the hard way in his 1st pro season.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

KK is going to turn out to the same as his childhood idol… Joel armia. He’s playing 3rd line LW for the canes. Size and some luck possession with solid defensive skill set. But can’t score for the life of him or will score in spurts.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's crazy how so many are talking like his development is finished and he's a 25 years old player with over 300 gp. He played 171 regular season games, that's pretty much equivalent to two "normal" seasons, and he played in a weird COVID context. He's also so young and when he played in lower leagues, his production was dominating (PPG in AHL and almost PPG in Finland).

This will be an embarassing loss.

We have to be prepared for either outcome. He continues to stall and not reach his potential or he bust out and we look like fools. Personally, his tall lanky frame with bad balance on his skates will take time to develop. I expect him to come into this season with more energy to prove us wrong and he will get more points if he plays a full season. But points are not always the governing factor. Remember when Domi was voted our best asset after his 72 pts season? I bet you the Coyotes felt embarrassed? Well, how does it look now?

The major questions marks in his game is all about what centers are on the ice for. Puck possession, face-offs, ability to play physical and handle big D man down low. His shot and vision are very good but it's going to take a while before he makes it embarrassing for us. A guy like Sergachev can skate. NHL is a skating game. KK don't have it and he needs to be obsessed with improving his skating.

Does KK seem like the obsessed type to improve? Romanov, Suzuki, and Caulfield have it. That a huge part of development that people pin on the team but in most cases, players that develop and turn into impact players are focused. KK seems to love hockey but not so sure it's an obsession. He's young so it could backfire yes. But the cases of guys busting out after 3 years of meh seasons are not high.

 

[Johnny31]

didnt Petry have hes best seasons after 25 players can always improve on a new team specially when you go from a dead market like Arizona to the biggest one like montreal

the point is more if dvorak can improve in a different team at 25.... Why KK is a finish product at 21 ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

the point is more if dvorak can improve in a different team at 25.... Why KK is a finish product at 21 ?

KK is not a finished product at age 21. Maybe some of us are saying that but I believe most of us know he can and probably will improve. It's the little seed that worries you about him busting out with another team. Dvorak is more of a complete player... go ahead and nit pick his game? Good luck. Heck, go back a few years and try to nit pick his game? A guy like Domi was raving about him when he came to the Habs 3 years ago now I believe. Dvorak was 22/23 then. Who's raving about KK at age 21? The jerks in Carolina? Before you go back and look at his stat sheets, it's not about points, it's about compete level and how difficult you are as a player to play against. Romanov has that.

Back to KK. What do we think if he puts up 55 pts playing on wing this year? That don't mean shit to me cause he has to do that playing center for me to regret this decision. Play center effectively at both ends, improve face offs, and also improve his puck carrying ability without falling down. Good luck

Canes forced us to make a calculated decision. How many guys who start out at age 18 or 19 and have meh seasons from 18-20 and all of a sudden bust out? You can find a few for sure but for every one you find, you will find 10 or more guys who disappoint.

Would the Bruins giving up on Seguin be a good example? Can't recall when they traded him?

 

[Goalfield22]

Now show the regular season.

 

[Johnny31]

KK is not a finished product at age 21. Maybe some of us are saying that but I believe most of us know he can and probably will improve. It's the little seed that worries you about him busting out with another team. Dvorak is more of a complete player... go ahead and nit pick his game? Good luck. Heck, go back a few years and try to nit pick his game? A guy like Domi was raving about him when he came to the Habs 3 years ago now I believe. Dvorak was 22/23 then. Who's raving about KK at age 21? The jerks in Carolina?

Back to KK. What do we think if he puts up 55 pts playing on wing this year? That don't mean shit to me cause he has to do that playing center for me to regret this decision. Play center effectively at both ends, improve face offs, and also improve his puck carrying ability without falling down. Good luck

Never said a word against Dvorak. The things is some people comparing the two players and saying that dvorak have more room to improve than KK. Sorry but this is absurd. With that said, I have no doubt Dvorak is the best player now...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Never said a word against Dvorak. The things is some people comparing the two players and saying that dvorak have more room to improve than KK. Sorry but this is absurd. With that said, I have no doubt Dvorak is the best player now...

I don't think too many are saying KK is a finished product either. More like a guy that will improve but how much he improves is limited.

Dvorak can go from 50 pts to 60 pts. KK can go from 30 pts to 60 pts. Can either one of them bust out to 60-80 range? Some will say KK cause he is younger. Well, that usually is valid when you see growth from year to year.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Now show the regular season.

Yeah because regular season play is so much harder.

Kid scored 9 goals in 29 playoff games. He's a gamer and scores when it matters. But he can't score for the lifeof him, right?

 

[Forsead]

We have to be prepared for either outcome. He continues to stall and not reach his potential or he bust out and we look like fools. Personally, his tall lanky frame with bad balance on his skates will take time to develop. I expect him to come into this season with more energy to prove us wrong and he will get more points if he plays a full season. But points are not always the governing factor. Remember when Domi was voted our best asset after his 72 pts season? I bet you the Coyotes felt embarrassed? Well, how does it look now?

The major questions marks in his game is all about what centers are on the ice for. Puck possession, face-offs, ability to play physical and handle big D man down low. His shot and vision are very good but it's going to take a while before he makes it embarrassing for us. A guy like Sergachev can skate. NHL is a skating game. KK don't have it and he needs to be obsessed with improving his skating.

Does KK seem like the obsessed type to improve? Romanov, Suzuki, and Caulfield have it. That a huge part of development that people pin on the team but in most cases, players that develop and turn into impact players are focused. KK seems to love hockey but not so sure it's an obsession. He's young so it could backfire yes. But the cases of guys busting out after 3 years of meh seasons are not high.

I disagree with you last point : I don't know why or how, but a very high number of center hit their ceiling at 23-24 years old. Until then, I don't judge a product finished for a center.