Tribute Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck
- Thread starter Le Tricolore
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Did you read the quotes? Lol
Come @Belial be objective here...there's no one scoring you.
How can you look at those quotes and not see that he's admitting it was a mistake. He even says they they'll look at that more closely in the future.
What do you think he's talking about?
Drafting players who are born in Pori?
Actually...he said there are things that he doesn't think would have changed, which I agree. But he's clearly saying that he was rushed.
I'm not sure how you can in good faith say otherwise.
That's a problem...because a few months earlier his top amateur guy was telling us he was a project...a good training camp throws that all out of the window?
I expect that kind of short-sightedness from fans, media...
Not the GM whose job is to manage the long term of prospects that are drafted.
Man, I hate this type of argument, to be honest.
Because with hindsight yes it was probably an error to keep him here but at the time he looked perfectly fine!
34 points playing on a third line with Armia and Lehkonen as a rookie center was amazing!
No one ever doubted the decision to keep him after his rookie season was done.
Now you have all these posters trashing the organization for ruining his development... Give me a break.
Yeah we have the luxury of hindsight...that's why we're fans.
He's the GM...he has to have the ability of foresight. To not get wrapped up in a training camp performance and to think about what's best long term for the player.
He didn't do that.
Unfortunately, criticism by hindsight comes with the territory.
That's not true that no one doubted that decision. There were heavy discussions on that very topic here, I had a lot of back and forth with @Habs Halifax about this and even I had to say I was wrong at the time.
Got caught up in the moment of training camp and the fact the Habs really had nothing down the middle.
That being said, I also assumed he would be afforded the opportunities that typically come from being a 3rd overall pick who started out as an 18yr old.
If not right off the bat...soon after.
HostileCapSpace
Registered User
KK was definetely brought too early in the league but I disagree he was not given a chance or didn't play with good wingers once he got there. He played very sheltered minutes, with PP time and no PK time, favourable matchups, etc. People point out he had different wingers more often than say Suzuki. Well, a large part of that is because Suzuki actually showed chemistry with his wingers and produced, so the coaching staff mostly had the same players with him. It goes both ways.
KK did have more different wingers cause he can't seem to "gel" with any of them. You can't give KK say Toffoli (which they did during the regular season by the way) and then wait 25 games in the hope that they produce. Ideally, perhaps, but this is a business and they need to win games. Also, you'll lose the vets if they're stuck on a line which doesn't produce.
Bringing him at 18 was a mistake, but he had his chances on the ice.
I'll even go as far as saying that starting the year with Suzuki and KK instead of Dvorak might have had a negative impact on Suzuki who would have been stuck being assigned a lot of defensive tasks and PK time because KK is useless in those facets at this stage. Dvorak will handle a lot of those, giving more offensive zone time to Suzuki... and by extention Caufield.
KK did have more different wingers cause he can't seem to "gel" with any of them. You can't give KK say Toffoli (which they did during the regular season by the way) and then wait 25 games in the hope that they produce. Ideally, perhaps, but this is a business and they need to win games. Also, you'll lose the vets if they're stuck on a line which doesn't produce.
Bringing him at 18 was a mistake, but he had his chances on the ice.
I'll even go as far as saying that starting the year with Suzuki and KK instead of Dvorak might have had a negative impact on Suzuki who would have been stuck being assigned a lot of defensive tasks and PK time because KK is useless in those facets at this stage. Dvorak will handle a lot of those, giving more offensive zone time to Suzuki... and by extention Caufield.
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Again the kid looked good out there, you're just being nonsensical once again here.
There was no reason to send him back to Finland when he was doing just fine already in the NHL.
His team in Finland was a disaster on top of that.
It made perfect sense to keep him around.
Yeah, some were arguing that we should send him back but I'm pretty sure the arguing stopped after he played some games with the big club and the majority agreed that he would do just fine with the big club instead of returning to his tire fire of a team in Finland.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
I don't think you were wrong entirely. I do remember our back and forth conversations about it and I felt that it would not be detrimental for him to start at age 18 but it's just a risky type road cause that kid needs to have thick skin if the roller coaster ride becomes bumpy. Lets say KK busts out last year? You would probably still be on the same thought process. I just feel that guys 20 or under should not play unless they check off a few boxes and one of them is dominating a development league first.
Guhle and Norlinder are good examples. We already know how Mete and KK went.
Guhle: Age 19/20 this season but only played a total of 12 games last year. He need to be allowed to dominate the WHL and play another WJC season. He would have to come in camp and show a lot of maturity and also produce if I thought about him playing in the NHL this year. Bar would be set high.
Norlinder: Age 21 this season and 10 pts in 37 SHL games (his 1st SHL season). I have recently penciled him in a potential roster with Savard but that is only if he shows ability to handle less time and space and how he handles more physical players. Once again, bar would be set high even if he is 21 this year. It might be best to allow him to go back to SHL and improve his numbers.
There was the option of starting him off in the AHL, since he was drafted out of a European League, was there not?
MB got caught up in the moment, as did I and many others. We didn't anticipate the coach after 60 games wouldn't have any further use for him.
So the post before this, you accused me of being "nonsensical".
Yet here you are admitting some were arguing he was rushed, after earlier saying no one argued he was being rushed.
This is like when Rick James within seconds of himself saying he didn't and would never stomp on Eddie Murphy's couch, admitting he did just that.
abo9
Registered User
- Jun 25, 2017
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in kotkaniemi's situation, you would think less game and more off ice training would have done wonder... especially since a big part of why being rushed was so bad was because he was not strong enough on the puck and too lanky.
I think he's gonna do good in Carolina! It's not too late unlike when Galchenyuk was traded
SOLR
Registered User
True here and in the media. KK couldn't finish that first season or barely. He had no leg from game 35-40. Then KK couldn't finish the 2nd season and even in the 3rd season, he had no legs by game 60. It's getting better, but he still doesn't have the conditioning of an NHL player.
If I was GM (and I think all actual GMs should have the same rule), you should never play a player who doesn't have the conditioning to finish an NHL season. That's a pretty easy rule to enforce (and measure with a few bike tests) and this way you don't put the team in danger with a few fancy moves at training camps.
With that measurement in mind, forget 1 year in Finland, KK should have been 2, 3, 4 years in Europe. Hopefully, as GM, you find him a progressing level of difficulty from Finland, probably the SHL or the KHL.
How come there hasnt been any leak about what happend at the press conference at the end of the season? You know where the journalists were waiting for KK to come out of the coaches office and it took him long minutes to finally show up to the podium. I still remember his expression when KK finally arrived he looked pissed. i would have liked to be a fly on the wall that day in that office.
I believe that for KK that's the day he was ready to leave.
I believe that for KK that's the day he was ready to leave.
All I know is we have a GM and a scouting staff that
- Drafted a player they called a long term project
- Graduated him to the NHL @ 18yrs old a few weeks after declaring him a long term project
- 2 coaches, CJ & DD, have spent the better part of the last 3 years showing us that he needs extreme sheltering to play in the NHL at this stage of his career
There's a clear disconnect and it's caused by the organization.
According to some social media KK agent expected the Habs to match because the center position was thin on the market. They waited to see the Eichel situation but knew he’ll be out. KK thinking Montreal bet on him and one year wasn’t bad. KK also bet on himself so he signed that offer expecting Berg will match and give him secure him the second line center position.
only when Dvorak became available that things changed and it took a week for Berg to evaluate.
watching KK exit interview on the offer sheet he didn’t look like he wanted to leave yet or there’s unfinished business.
maybe Bergs ego and message to his young players that if you sign offer sheet don’t expect to come back.
only when Dvorak became available that things changed and it took a week for Berg to evaluate.
watching KK exit interview on the offer sheet he didn’t look like he wanted to leave yet or there’s unfinished business.
maybe Bergs ego and message to his young players that if you sign offer sheet don’t expect to come back.
DAChampion
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- May 28, 2011
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I'll enjoy watching Kotkaniemi's progression in Carolina,I expect him to become a 30-30 forward with excellent defensive play.
Seb
All we are is Dustin Byfuglien
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Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
That's so adorable - the way you try to slip that word past everyone. To be safer you should have said hockey player instead of forward.
DAChampion
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- May 28, 2011
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Grate n Colorful Oz
Hutson Hawk
It's the month of september, so as always the Habs PR bots are out in full force. On this board, september is always the month whrre you'll read the most absurd, ridiculous and assinine comments. And there's no point in replying because you'll be served reductionist answers devoid of context. They're also quite juvenile.
“Yeah, it is a lesson. I can say that,” Bergevin said. “To be honest, I’m not perfect. We do make sometimes not the right decision, but it’s always to try to do it for the right reasons. I remember he had a great camp, good first half, I remember he was playing very well and I’m like, ‘OK, he is ready.’ But now I’m looking back three or four years later and the way it happens.
“But also, there’s things that I saw the last two years that I don’t think that would have changed. It could have, to a degree, but there’s other stuff that I know it’s more than just going back to Finland. But to your answer, yes, it’s something that we’ll watch closely moving forward.”
How anyone can read these quotes or even listen to Bergevin's press conference yesterday and still not come away with the conclusion that he admitted it was a mistake to graduate him at 18yrs old is beyond me.
And somehow, I'M the one who doesn't know what i'm talking about...like I just made these quotes up.
“But also, there’s things that I saw the last two years that I don’t think that would have changed. It could have, to a degree, but there’s other stuff that I know it’s more than just going back to Finland. But to your answer, yes, it’s something that we’ll watch closely moving forward.”
How anyone can read these quotes or even listen to Bergevin's press conference yesterday and still not come away with the conclusion that he admitted it was a mistake to graduate him at 18yrs old is beyond me.
And somehow, I'M the one who doesn't know what i'm talking about...like I just made these quotes up.
Oh look...they're on the radio talking about Bergevin admitting he made a mistake.
I guess they don't know what they're talking about either, neither does all of the writers who wrote articles saying the same thing.
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
Nico Cauzuki
Registered User
didnt Petry have hes best seasons after 25 players can always improve on a new team specially when you go from a dead market like Arizona to the biggest one like montreal
30 goals!!!??
I highly doubt that, like highly, highly, highly doubt it, he'll be lucky to crack 25
Now he's gonna play wing in Carolina, last year when he did this year management got blasted for hindering his progression but now he's gonna progress....?? The guy can't stand on his legs and creates not much offence, lots of skating going on but nothing is happening.
I can see the defensive side and maybe one day he scores 20 with 30 assists....maybe
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