Tribute Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck part II

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Kind of silly to be arguing about this, but I looked at it again and please show me the evidence that he "fanned" on the pass. He clearly put the puck on his backhand and made a blind pass behind him. I can forgive a whiff.... poor execution.... Not that he's looking for my forgiveness, but it wasn't a fanned pass, it was an intended execution. There is no evidence to the contrary other than maybe the excuse he gave when he went back to the bench that neither of us is privy to.

Dude he fanned on the pass to get out of the zone and it's really obvious. He's not the only one who saw it that way.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Definitely a fanned pass, you can see the continuation of the movement.

 

[smcgreg]

Dude he fanned on the pass to get out of the zone and it's really obvious. He's not the only one who saw it that way.

Dude.. old argument. I already acknowledged he was probably right after looking at it from another angle. That being said, he did put it on his backhand... so both right. ;-)

 

[loudi94]

Dude he fanned on the pass to get out of the zone and it's really obvious. He's not the only one who saw it that way.

He definitely fanned on it. Question is, did he fan because he tried to bail on the hit? I don't blame him if he did, but since he called for the puck, it is on him.

Hopefully once the season gets going, we can move on from him. I was a fan of his. Glossed over the obvious flaws in his game and celebrated the skills he showed. Now that he is gone, I can be more objective. I still believe when he becomes a man, he will be tough to play against.

 

[malcb33]

If the Canes did acquire him as a 3-5 year project it's kind of weird since they are supposedly in "win now" mode. The 6$ million + 1st & 3rd could have been used to bring in an immediate impact proven top 6 winger or D-man. They have to be expecting him to breakout immediately to be paying that much.

I don't see it that way at all and I think you're too focused on their offer to acquire the player.

The Canes are an extremely analytically focused team. With that in mind, it's very unlikely they feel KK is worth 6.1M based on what he's done so far in the league. Therefore, it's likely they see the picks and overpay for one year as the cost to acquire a player that meets future needs. If for example, they are able to ink KK for 4 years at 4M per, their total cost is 4.42M over 5 years + the picks of course, which is much more reasonable.

I also don't think the Canes are in Win-now mode just yet. IMO they are one of the upper-tier teams, but they are trying to extend their window and haven't pushed all their chips in yet. They need more experience and a goalie playing at a high level to be serious contenders. Based on what KK has done in the NHL, he's unlikely to be a win-now player for the Canes and I'm pretty sure that's not why the Canes brought him in.

 

[1909]

I don't see it that way at all and I think you're too focused on their offer to acquire the player.

The Canes are an extremely analytically focused team. With that in mind, it's very unlikely they feel KK is worth 6.1M based on what he's done so far in the league. Therefore, it's likely they see the picks and overpay for one year as the cost to acquire a player that meets future needs. If for example, they are able to ink KK for 4 years at 4M per, their total cost is 4.42M over 5 years + the picks of course, which is much more reasonable.

I also don't think the Canes are in Win-now mode just yet. IMO they are one of the upper-tier teams, but they are trying to extend their window and haven't pushed all their chips in yet. They need more experience and a goalie playing at a high level to be serious contenders. Based on what KK has done in the NHL, he's unlikely to be a win-now player for the Canes and I'm pretty sure that's not why the Canes brought him in.

That and showing the finger to MB and Molson for the Aho OS attempt.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

I'm way late to the party.

All I can say is that he made the right decision for himself and his career. This is not the team to develop a offensive game with.

He got away early when Galchenyuk could not.

 

[Whitesnake]

I'm way late to the party.

All I can say is that he made the right decision for himself and his career. This is not the team to develop a offensive game with.

He got away early when Galchenyuk could not.

So....Suzuki and Caufield should ask to be traded?

If there's something that might help him....is that he'll be a winger. After he was suppose to be that great 15-year C we all thought he'd be after playing wings on his draft year....THAT could help him greatly.

 

[TannedBum]

15 pages bitching about one kinda bad play. Petty.

 

[1909]

Playing on a wing with Aho or Trotchek will help him for sure. He's gonna have his fair share of PP time too, and will finally (hopefully) use his great shot to score some. Too bad, it could had not been done in MTL.

 

[Hacketts]

I'm way late to the party.

All I can say is that he made the right decision for himself and his career. This is not the team to develop a offensive game with.

He got away early when Galchenyuk could not.

If Galchenyuk never gets injured by Kopitar, I think we're in a completely different situation with him. That injury was the beginning of the end for him.

 

[Rob Sense]

I don't see it that way at all and I think you're too focused on their offer to acquire the player.

The Canes are an extremely analytically focused team. With that in mind, it's very unlikely they feel KK is worth 6.1M based on what he's done so far in the league. Therefore, it's likely they see the picks and overpay for one year as the cost to acquire a player that meets future needs. If for example, they are able to ink KK for 4 years at 4M per, their total cost is 4.42M over 5 years + the picks of course, which is much more reasonable.

I also don't think the Canes are in Win-now mode just yet. IMO they are one of the upper-tier teams, but they are trying to extend their window and haven't pushed all their chips in yet. They need more experience and a goalie playing at a high level to be serious contenders. Based on what KK has done in the NHL, he's unlikely to be a win-now player for the Canes and I'm pretty sure that's not why the Canes brought him in.

You give Carolina way too much credit here. This was not calculated but rather a move to get back at Mtl for Aho.

 

[1909]

If Galchenyuk never gets injured by Kopitar, I think we're in a completely different situation with him. That injury was the beginning of the end for him.

If Galchenuyu would have had a "safer, better" off-ice habits....

 

[cphabs]

I don't see it that way at all and I think you're too focused on their offer to acquire the player.

The Canes are an extremely analytically focused team. With that in mind, it's very unlikely they feel KK is worth 6.1M based on what he's done so far in the league. Therefore, it's likely they see the picks and overpay for one year as the cost to acquire a player that meets future needs. If for example, they are able to ink KK for 4 years at 4M per, their total cost is 4.42M over 5 years + the picks of course, which is much more reasonable.

I also don't think the Canes are in Win-now mode just yet. IMO they are one of the upper-tier teams, but they are trying to extend their window and haven't pushed all their chips in yet. They need more experience and a goalie playing at a high level to be serious contenders. Based on what KK has done in the NHL, he's unlikely to be a win-now player for the Canes and I'm pretty sure that's not why the Canes brought him in.

Are you suggesting they will develop him?

 

[MXD]

The Habs player Danault with Pacioretty and Radulov in 2017 and he was absolutely awful in that role. He did not "deserve" that role. However, it paid off as a long term investment as it helped Danault improve from being a replacement-level player to being a good second liner.

It's called making a long-term investment in young players.

That's selling Danault quite short, as he clearly had already established himself as a well-above average 4th line liner by the time he was tried with Pacioretty and Radulov (if not even a little bit better than that), all the while playing the tougher position with players that were ultimately (and clearly) not as good as he was as a whole (mostly Torrey Mitchell and Brian Flynn, though there were some Paul Byron sprinkled here and there, and I realize this is a close call between Danault and Byron from that time, hence the "as a whole") in the easier position.

However, there is certainly validity in the argument that playing Danault with Radulov and Pacioretty was something of a long-term investment.

 

[Doc McKenna]

I don't see it that way at all and I think you're too focused on their offer to acquire the player.

The Canes are an extremely analytically focused team. With that in mind, it's very unlikely they feel KK is worth 6.1M based on what he's done so far in the league. Therefore, it's likely they see the picks and overpay for one year as the cost to acquire a player that meets future needs. If for example, they are able to ink KK for 4 years at 4M per, their total cost is 4.42M over 5 years + the picks of course, which is much more reasonable.

I also don't think the Canes are in Win-now mode just yet. IMO they are one of the upper-tier teams, but they are trying to extend their window and haven't pushed all their chips in yet. They need more experience and a goalie playing at a high level to be serious contenders. Based on what KK has done in the NHL, he's unlikely to be a win-now player for the Canes and I'm pretty sure that's not why the Canes brought him in.

KK is much more likely to be ready soon than a prospect from next years draft. By the time a mid to high number draft of 2022 is ready KK could very well be a core member, or playing in the swedish league. But its a better option with a known quantity with upside, as opposed to: Not sure what position you draft , not sure whats available, not sure if the guy is a sexual predator-you know to avoid drafting them when they ask not to. Etc. If they drafted half as bad as the habs, it was worth losing their 1st rounder. Look at the habs, how many first rounders do we have playing that we drafted on our team? Cole Caufield...D+3 this season....in 10+ years.

 

[SakuKoivu11]

Kinda weird feeling…

Dahlin got paid
Svechnikov got paid
Tkachuk got paid
Quinn got paid

all those guys earned it.

for Kotkaniemi I know he’s getting paid but just feeling he didn’t earn it. Not elite

 

[417]

Kinda weird feeling…

Dahlin got paid
Svechnikov got paid
Tkachuk got paid
Quinn got paid

all those guys earned it.

for Kotkaniemi I know he’s getting paid but just feeling he didn’t earn it. Not elite

Kotkaniemi's contract was an offer sheet...it's not the same situation.

The 6.1M is not supposed to be reflective of his current value, it's intentionally high to force the team that owned his rights, in this case the Montreal Canadiens, into a tough position.

Think of that 6.1M as the cost to acquire his rights.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Can't wait to see what he can do tonight. I really hope that he can put 55-65 points per season. Please not become a PPG player because we are going to regret it. Good luck KK!

 

[Habano]

Can't wait to see what he can do tonight. I really hope that he can put 55-65 points per season. Please not become a PPG player because we are going to regret it. Good luck KK!

I'm with you. However, even if he puts up 55-65 points we'll regret it. I can't see anyone on our roster outside of Suzuki and maybe Caufield in a few years putting up those kinds of numbers. I hope he does really well!

EDIT: I know people will laugh but there's also Drouin who is arguably our most skilled forward. If he ever finds his game he can put up 60+ points.

 

[Whitesnake]

Canes have a heck of a top 6 if JK, as I think could happen, will show himself being more useful on the wings. But he'll need to show it fast 'cause Nino might be a better match for Aho. In the end, when all is said and done, JK could go back to the center position taking jordan Staal place on the 3rd. Till they do something with Trocheck.

But...what if he's better on the wings ? I guess we will see.

 

[Whitesnake]

Playing on a wing with Aho or Trotchek will help him for sure. He's gonna have his fair share of PP time too, and will finally (hopefully) use his great shot to score some. Too bad, it could had not been done in MTL.

By some people he couldn't...he HAD to be a centerman....

Personnally, I would not have had a single problem with going with him on the wings. Maybe even alongside Nick. You still acquire Dvorak and give a 1st round pick either 2022 or 2023, top 10 protected 2022, or unprotected 2023. And you have a much better team.

Whether we think Canes only did that or not to avenge the Aho deal, they still decided to go with talent first. And then we will fit you somewhere. In Montreal, we HAD to pick him 'cause he was a centerman that wasn't playing Centerman. We HAD to start him at 18 'cause we had nothing else. And we HAD to force him to be a C during all those years 'cause we can't pick a real C in 18 years.

Some teams DO. Some others HAVE TO.

2 goals, 2 assists for JK tonight.

 

[Goalfield22]

By some people he couldn't...he HAD to be a centerman....

Personnally, I would not have had a single problem with going with him on the wings. Maybe even alongside Nick. You still acquire Dvorak and give a 1st round pick either 2022 or 2023, top 10 protected 2022, or unprotected 2023. And you have a much better team.

He was tried as a winger, and he was awful. He doesn't have the skillset for it. This board was up in arms when it happened as well.

 

[CHfan1]

He was tried as a winger, and he was awful. He doesn't have the skillset for it. This board was up in arms when it happened as well.

The problem was he was tried for a few games in the middle of the season since not really playing the position for years, and yeah it didn’t work out. I thought he looked out of position. It’ll be interesting to see how he does playing the wing after going through a full training camp. I do think he’s better suited at centre but Carolina has a lot of talent at that position. Of course him starting at wing doesn’t mean he stays there.

 

[Goalfield22]

The problem was he was tried for a few games in the middle of the season since not really playing the position for years, and yeah it didn’t work out. I thought he looked out of position. It’ll be interesting to see how he does playing the wing after going through a full training camp. I do think he’s better suited at centre but Carolina has a lot of talent at that position. Of course him starting at wing doesn’t mean he stays there.

That's fair. I still think he should be playing C in the AHL instead of W in the NHL. I don't think it benefits him going forward. He's a natural C. People say Cs can shift over to W no problem, but that really isn't the case. For comparison, I think Poehling has the skills to be a good W as opposed to a mediocre C.