Confirmed with Link: Jay Woodcroft and Dave Manson fired - no more Woody during NNN - Kris Knoblauch hired, Coffey as assistant

K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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I can't fathom how the 8-1 shellacking wasn't the message needed to conclude that the coach had lost the team. No team that feels its a team comes out with a performance like that. I said all along Woody lost the club either in the playoffs or in another lame duck preseason.

The team then proceeded to go 2-9-1. They had to fire the coaching staff and we've since found out why Manson was not performing in the role. (not blaming him) just acknowledging his grieving.

I remember a lot of pundits, bloggers, even professed Oilers bloggers saying the coaching change had been the worst decision made yet in the history of the org. Saying the org had one upped its worst ever decisions. Those guns seem quiet now.

As if that wasn't enough, the total no show effort against the Flyers a few nights later might have been it. Then if not for that, deciding to totally implode against the Wild the next week and then no show again against the Rangers should have been enough. Then the no show against the Predators again a week later could have been it after that. Then finally the Canucks debacle combined with the embarrassment in San Jose was finally enough.

People both close and far away from the team act as if we flippantly fired Woodcroft after the first game, but that couldn't be any further from the truth. By the time he got the boot there were almost a half dozen "flash point" moments that would have gotten many a coach fired. He had a lot of rope to turn things around, but there was essentially zero indication that would occur.
 

Stoneman89

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As if that wasn't enough, the total no show effort against the Flyers a few nights later might have been it. Then if not for that, deciding to totally implode against the Wild the next week and then no show again against the Rangers should have been enough. Then the no show against the Predators again a week later could have been it after that. Then finally the Canucks debacle combined with the embarrassment in San Jose was finally enough.

People both close and far away from the team act as if we flippantly fired Woodcroft after the first game, but that couldn't be any further from the truth. By the time he got the boot there were almost a half dozen "flash point" moments that would have gotten many a coach fired. He had a lot of rope to turn things around, but there was essentially zero indication that would occur.
That's basically what Holland said when he fired him in the presser. The team simply couldn't wait around anymore for things to turn. Another couple weeks and it probably is a hole we never get out of.
 

ZJuice

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May 17, 2010
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Nurse playing well or you dry humping a wall?:laugh:
Nurse playing so well that I dry hump a wall lol
This is probably very disappointing for my parents but very fine hockey plays get me dry humping walls more often than not.

I can’t find the clip but there was a man on his back and pumping his legs in celebration after Argentina won the World Cup. I imagine that is what I’d do if we won the big prize
 

CantHaveTkachev

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glad they fired that fraud of a Head Coach in Woodcroft and found a good coach in Knoblauch (and Coffey)...best thing Holland had done this year

gone are the days of Ted Talk press conferences about "getting 10% better each day" nonsense,...or whatever catchphrase he learned from the latest self-help book

Knoblauch is a straight shooter and doesn't try to re-invent the wheel, nor pretend to be the smartest guy in the room and tells you like it is
 
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Satoru Gojo

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I'm starting to wonder if the Woodcroft and Manson duo just got lucky and ran on McDavids career year and a historically good PP

The defensive play and PK are night and day and it feels like there is more structure in the teams game overall

Woodcroft will probably be hired by a team in the offseason, I think his next job will certify if he's a good coach or not
 
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29Beast97Mode

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glad they fired that fraud of a Head Coach in Woodcroft and found a good coach in Knoblauch (and Coffey)...best thing Holland had done this year

gone are the days of Ted Talk press conferences about "getting 10% better each day" nonsense,...or whatever catchphrase he learned from the latest self-help book

Knoblauch is a straight shooter and doesn't try to re-invent the wheel, nor pretend to be the smartest guy in the room and tells you like it is
Oilers were good despite Woodcroft; Knoblauch makes the team actively better.
 
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CROTT

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glad they fired that fraud of a Head Coach in Woodcroft and found a good coach in Knoblauch (and Coffey)...best thing Holland had done this year

gone are the days of Ted Talk press conferences about "getting 10% better each day" nonsense,...or whatever catchphrase he learned from the latest self-help book

Knoblauch is a straight shooter and doesn't try to re-invent the wheel, nor pretend to be the smartest guy in the room and tells you like it is

To me that was one thing I didn't like at all with Woodcroft, his pressers seamed like question period...
 
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gordonhught

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Feb 18, 2009
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I'm starting to wonder if the Woodcroft and Manson duo just got lucky and ran on McDavids career year and a historically good PP

The defensive play and PK are night and day better and it feels like there is more structure in the teams game overall

Woodcroft will probably be fired by a team in the offseason, I think his next job will certify if he's a good coach or not
Maybe he gets hired in LA after McLellan gets canned.
 

MessierThanThou

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The longer this streak keeps up, the worse Woody looks.

Woody was strong when he first took over, but dovetailed pretty early on last season and I would have been fine seeing him replaced immediately after the postseason. His deficiencies were cloaked by peak McDrai and an all-time great PP.

I agree with all of the Woody complaints here, and just want to add another: his refusal to pull goalies who were having off-nights, which was especially egregious last season with Campbell, and which cost us more than a couple highly winnable games. Then when the playoffs came, he persisted in playing a floundering Skinner, even after Campbell miraculously heated up by the end of the season.
 
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HockeyGuy1964

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Our goalie has been basically the best in the league over the last 2 months after being the worst in the league over the first month & a half but sure, it probably has nothing to do with that & it's all about coaching & press conferences.
 
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gordonhught

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I’m wondering if he ends up in Ottawa in the off season. Perhaps as an asst with focus on offence / PP?
Think Manson is done….probably retires.
He lost his spouse. Would encourage him to take some time off.

I don’t know him, but he has a big family that maybe needs him NOT to be a hockey coach for a bit.
 
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HockeyGuy1964

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You don’t think team play and defensive structure has any reflection in goaltending numbers?
Some, sure.
That much, absolutely not.

Here's a breakdown of his numbers from The first game of the season until Woodcroft was fired & the Capitals game on Nov 24th, the game many point to as the turning point in the season, until last night:

Oct-Nov 12th: 9GP

GAA: 3.58
xGAA: 2.69
Save%: .863
GSAA: -8.75 (Goals saved against average)
GSAx: -7.59 (Goals saved against expected)

Nov 24th- Jan 14th: 16GP

GAA: 1.89
xGAA: 2.58
Save%: .928
GSAA: 10.1
GSAx: 10.42

His xGA dropped by 0.1 which can be easily attributed to the health of Ekholm by itself while his GAA dropped by almost half. That's not coaching.

Great goaltending makes average coaches look great & terrible goaltending makes average coaches look terrible.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Woodcock was and is a good coach. Made some mistakes as a rookie head coach.

The next team that hires him gets a good head coach with experience learning from his previous mistakes.

Never understand the need to tear people down after they leave.
It seems part of fandom. But its also of course subject to bias. Tippett was torn down much more, and viciously with ageism, memes about his clown appearance, etc being used. The reactions were spiteful, had some venom to them. He was generally referred to as an idiot, bozo, clown, etc. These all occurred. Precious few complained about all the insults Tippett was taking because the majority did not like him.
I don't dispute most of this has occurred with Woody. The dfifference is that many liked him, and that results in him still being defended quite a lot.

Thats even good but it should probably be offered to all the coaches that have helped the team. (Not Eakins for sure)

In the end a lot of subjectivity is at work, I don't deny it. But I do think its interesting how some get defended, and others mocked by vast majority. Tippett had a really hard job here during pandemic times. He was here as well through the death of a player and was the foremost support, in the whole org, for the grieving widow. Tippett came out of retirement to take the team back to playoffs after years ot the team missing. He wasn't credited for that at all, it was "we didn't do well enough in those playoffs". Its entirely forgotten that Tippett onset and KK onset were dramatic changes from teams that were dying on the vine, to teams that were succeeding. KK had to take over a team that was 2-9-1. That could have blown up real easy and for him to never coach in the NHL again. It didn't. He helped bring immense turn around.

Tippett took a team that was BELOW .500 multiple seasons and turned it into a playoff calibre club. At point of firing Tippett still had the team 5 games over .500.

In anycase its undeniable that the most dramatic turn around we've seen is with this current turnaround. The team is abjectly better in every way under KK and Coffey. The turn around has been as dramatic as is possible. You won't ever see a more radical turnaround.
 
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MessierII

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Some, sure.
That much, absolutely not.

Here's a breakdown of his numbers from The first game of the season until Woodcroft was fired & the Capitals game on Nov 24th, the game many point to as the turning point in the season, until last night:

Oct-Nov 12th: 9GP

GAA: 3.58
xGAA: 2.69
Save%: .863
GSAA: -8.75 (Goals saved against average)
GSAx: -7.59 (Goals saved against expected)

Nov 24th- Jan 14th: 16GP

GAA: 1.89
xGAA: 2.58
Save%: .928
GSAA: 10.1
GSAx: 10.42

His xGA dropped by 0.1 which can be easily attributed to the health of Ekholm by itself while his GAA dropped by almost half. That's not coaching.

Great goaltending makes average coaches look great & terrible goaltending makes average coaches look terrible.
Expected goals doesn’t take everything into account. It’s still a flawed stat. While I appreciate the attempt to account for shot quality they are still only taking into account shot location and rebounds. Things like pre shot puck movement, net front traffic etc are still ignored.
 

HockeyGuy1964

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Expected goals doesn’t take everything into account. It’s still a flawed stat. While I appreciate the attempt to account for shot quality they are still only taking into account shot location and rebounds. Things like pre shot puck movement, net front traffic etc are still ignored.

Cool, I'll concede it doesn't take everything into account but I can guarantee that if you did this breakdown for every team currently on a heater that didn't have a coaching change you'd find basically the same thing. Check out Seattle's stats for example.

The numbers might not be quite as stark but our goaltending was ridiculous & unsustainably bad the first month & is now reached unsustainably good level. Amazing what can happen when everybody up & down the lineup has confidence in the guy in net.

I've said thru these last 2 coaching changes that if we get competent NHL goaltending in the regular season, we'd be just fine. Of course I'd like our goaltending to go unsustainably good for the playoffs like Florida did last year but, like almost every goalie in the NHL, I'm not sure he's capable of that in the pressure cooker of the playoffs.
 

MessierII

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Cool, I'll concede it doesn't take everything into account but I can guarantee that if you did this breakdown for every team currently on a heater that didn't have a coaching change you'd find basically the same thing. Check out Seattle's stats for example.

The numbers might not be quite as stark but our goaltending was ridiculous & unsustainably bad the first month & is now reached unsustainably good level. Amazing what can happen when everybody up & down the lineup has confidence in the guy in net.

I've said thru these last 2 coaching changes that if we get competent NHL goaltending in the regular season, we'd be just fine. Of course I'd like our goaltending to go unsustainably good for the playoffs like Florida did last year but, like almost every goalie in the NHL, I'm not sure he's capable of that in the pressure cooker of the playoffs.
The goaltending was going to bounce back for sure but you can’t just chalk everything up to that. It’s a big portion, the biggest even but there is a lot the coaches are doing differently that was changed the way this team plays. Woodcroft had everyone confused and lost trying to implement a zone defense system and knobloch managed to implement it successfully within a week or so. Coffey has the D breaking out down the middle more often and we aren’t seeing the lines blended every few shifts and McDrai together constantly.
 

HockeyGuy1964

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Oct 7, 2013
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The goaltending was going to bounce back for sure but you can’t just chalk everything up to that. It’s a big portion, the biggest even but there is a lot the coaches are doing differently that was changed the way this team plays. Woodcroft had everyone confused and lost trying to implement a zone defense system and knobloch managed to implement it successfully within a week or so. Coffey has the D breaking out down the middle more often and we aren’t seeing the lines blended every few shifts and McDrai together constantly.

Knoblauch hasn't had a really rough stretch yet so I'll reserve giving him absolute credit about how he handles the lineup as far as blendered lines & playing McDrai together. I seem to remember a lot of posters saying the same thing about Woody when he first took over & when things got desperate against the Kings in round 1 he resorted to McDrai & lots of posters were giving him credit for outcoaching TM as if he invented it.

FTR, I'm not defending Woody at all. I take umbrage with everybody talking as if our start was his fault & he was just an idiot when he was probably just an around average NHL coach. I doubt Scotty Bowman, or any coach for that matter, could have won with the goaltending we were getting from both our guys the first month or so.
 
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guymez

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Cool, I'll concede it doesn't take everything into account but I can guarantee that if you did this breakdown for every team currently on a heater that didn't have a coaching change you'd find basically the same thing. Check out Seattle's stats for example.

The numbers might not be quite as stark but our goaltending was ridiculous & unsustainably bad the first month & is now reached unsustainably good level. Amazing what can happen when everybody up & down the lineup has confidence in the guy in net.

I've said thru these last 2 coaching changes that if we get competent NHL goaltending in the regular season, we'd be just fine. Of course I'd like our goaltending to go unsustainably good for the playoffs like Florida did last year but, like almost every goalie in the NHL, I'm not sure he's capable of that in the pressure cooker of the playoffs.

The goaltending was going to bounce back for sure but you can’t just chalk everything up to that. It’s a big portion, the biggest even but there is a lot the coaches are doing differently that was changed the way this team plays. Woodcroft had everyone confused and lost trying to implement a zone defense system and knobloch managed to implement it successfully within a week or so. Coffey has the D breaking out down the middle more often and we aren’t seeing the lines blended every few shifts and McDrai together constantly.
This has been beaten to death already but the high danger scoring chances off the rush was a major part (not the only part) of why the Oilers were losing early on. The team just wasnt executing a defensive system with any regularity. Assignments were confused and all too often players made agregious coverage mistakes and left the opposing player wide open. If the HDSC stats were more granular that would have been more evident. You had to actually watch the games.

The bottom line...it is virtually unsustainable for a team to to be somehwat competitive when the defensive execution in front of the goalie is subpar, The goalie doesnt know what to expect (in terms of coverage) in any given situation and that alone is going to cause issues...especially for a young inexperienced technically strong goalie. There is no way for a goalie to play a calm efficient game in that environment. An experienced goalie that relys primarily on athletic saves would probably do better but the down side is that a goalie like that is not ususally as fundementally sound. Thats likely why most if not all goalies now a days have sound positioning and efficient movement as the foundation of their game. Grant Fuhr/Dominik Hasek type goalies are a thing of the past.

So its not a coincidence that as soon as the systems play was cleaned up the goaltending slowly started getting better.

On a side note...I really like the defensive system that Knoblauch has employed.
Gap control against the rush is much better and dmen are less likely to give up prime scoring areas and essentially back into Skinner. They are much better at taking away the cross ice passes and also at collapsing in the slot area when the puck is in tight. The back pressure is much better as well so the forwards are more involved in playing defence.
Gone are the moments where a dman is expected to make decisions on man to man or zone coverage and end up taking themsleves out of the play. That was a weak point in Nurses game for sure (and most of the dmen) although Ekholm seemed to handle it okay. Nurse is a much better dman and this defence as a whole is better when the system is simplified.
The last part of all this was that team just wasnt scoring enough (they werent outscoring their mistakes) early this season under Woody to compensate for their poor defensive play and the losses mounted up. Coffeys ability to change the transition game is also an important factor.
Not only is the team defending better and more efficiently the transitiom game is much better as well. More flow creates more goals off the rush and more time in the O zone.

I think that Woodys downfall was a result of 2 things....Woodys inability to communicate and prepare the team properly for the systems change and the lack of goal scoring.
IMO the lack of goal scoring was helped along by the lack of flow in their offensive game created by the defensive system confusion initiated from the changes. It was a fire drill in their own zone most of the time and their transition game was very poor. They opposing team dictated the play and the Oilers seldom had the appropriate response. Everything was disconnected.
That affected their offensive execution in a big way.
So while i think that Woody is a good coach I also think that his lack of experience played a role in why the team started the way it did.
 
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