GDT: Jagr vs LA (the time and channel in the title, wouldya?)

[Dertell]

The SOGs allowed thing is more about special team than defense. I mentioned it last game and it was true this game as well. 40% of LA's shots were outside of full strength.

We did lose the corsi battle (46% adj) this time because the 3rd period was ugly; we were outshot 24-12 after outshooting them (adj) prior to it.

Dumping Bart, Glass and Brouwer to the bench is the way to fix this anyway but it won't happen. I'd like to say Stone as well but negative % chance of happening..

 

[Baxterman]

I think Jagr needs to show a lot more in terms of energy and defense if he is going to be put on the top line whether with Bennett or Monahan. I know it was his first game but he looked gassed and, perhaps as a result, looked completely disinterested defensively.

I think at this point he needs to be kept in a 3rd line, heavy O-zone start role with PP minutes. It may be that he can get his stamina up that he can be effective in a 1st line role but I don't think that is likely the best way to use him at this point in his career.

Also if we are breaking up Monahan and Gaudreau I think it makes sense to pair Gaudreau/Bennett and Monahan/Tkachuk. I know everyone loves the 3M line but if we are creating Gaudreau led and Monahan led lines then those 2 will be the key offensive lines so Backlund/Frolik can take a more traditional 3rd line shutdown role with Janko/Brouwer/Ferland and still chip in offensively. Putting Bennett with Gaudreau and Ferland/Jagr and Monahan with Versteeg/Ferland/Jagr just makes two weaker offensive lines in my view.

 

[livewell68]

For a 45 year old player playing his first game of the season, and considering most think he'll be a role player, he got close to 14 minutes of icetime. That tells me he's going to be relied on more offensively than many expected.

 

[Baxterman]

For a 45 year old player playing his first game of the season, and considering most think he'll be a role player, he got close to 14 minutes of icetime. That tells me he's going to be relied on more offensively than many expected.

What do you think many expected?

I thought he played right about what I (and most expected) and I can't see how you think that changes anything unless you had really low expectations of him and how he was going to be used.

 

[Bosnian Beast]

For a 45 year old player playing his first game of the season, and considering most think he'll be a role player, he got close to 14 minutes of icetime. That tells me he's going to be relied on more offensively than many expected.

Gully said post-game the plan was to play Jagr around 12 minutes tonight, but because he gets PP time, he saw the ice a little more than originally planned.

 

[livewell68]

What do you think many expected?

I thought he played right about what I (and most expected) and I can't see how you think that changes anything unless you had really low expectations of him and how he was going to be used.

I thought he was going to be used sporadically. He's my favorite player, but with the way the team was talking about him leading up to his debut, I thought he wasn't going to play much.

 

[Lunatik]

I thought he was going to be used sporadically. He's my favorite player, but with the way the team was talking about him leading up to his debut, I thought he wasn't going to play much.

It's been pretty much a given that he was going to play 3rd line with some PP time, right from the start. They just wanted to ease him in more than they did last night.

 

[Mobiandi]

That second period was allllll Kings and the start of the third. I do like the fight back... it’s nice to have a goalie stealing games.

When this team puts it together... they’re going to be really hard on teams. Imagine that except Smith facing 25 shots a night versus 40.

There’s some holes for sure still. Unsurprisingly the first line got hammered on possession (I think you need a more responsible RW in there at this time) but more surprisingly the 3M line had a weak possession game.

Gaudreau needs a winger he can play off of again (i.e. Tkachuk). I think he's become used to the diffusion of responsibility in the offensive zone (following Hudler's departure), such that he doesn't trust Ferland or Monahan with the puck very much. You saw it for a moment when he hesitated dishing it to Jagr during a shift in the 1st.

 

[Lunatik]

Gaudreau needs a winger he can play off of again (i.e. Tkachuk). I think he's become used to the diffusion of responsibility in the offensive zone (following Hudler's departure), such that he doesn't trust Ferland or Monahan with the puck very much. You saw it for a moment when he hesistated dishing it to Jagr during a shift in the 1st.

Bennett would be a much better fit that Tkachuk. Gaudreau and Monahan are already more playmakers than snipers (I know Monahan is a 30 goal scorer, but if he played with a sniper he'd get 40-50 assists too), I'm not sure Tkachuk will fit with them since he is the same way. Bennett on the otherhand, he would not only create space, but he is a shooter first and foremost.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I think Jagr needs to show a lot more in terms of energy and defense if he is going to be put on the top line whether with Bennett or Monahan. I know it was his first game but he looked gassed and, perhaps as a result, looked completely disinterested defensively.

You and I must have been watching different Jagrs. I saw a guy busting his ass to try to cover as much space defensively as he could. I have no issue with how Jagr played at all; he made smart reads, he put out effort, and he got tired (as one might expect from a 45 year old who missed training camp).

Bennett would be a much better fit that Tkachuk. Gaudreau and Monahan are already more playmakers than snipers (I know Monahan is a 30 goal scorer, but if he played with a sniper he'd get 40-50 assists too), I'm not sure Tkachuk will fit with them since he is the same way. Bennett on the otherhand, he would not only create space, but he is a shooter first and foremost.

I'm still waiting for Bennett to get back to the player he looked like he'd turn into in his rookie season. I don't see him create space very often. Taking last game, for example, the space created by his line was most often by Jagr and Versteeg cycling, and while Bennett took the space they created, I didn't see him create much on his own. He also gets checked way too often when he's trying to make plays. He's better than last year, but I'm not seeing much of a space creator at this point in time.

 

[Mobiandi]

Bennett would be a much better fit that Tkachuk. Gaudreau and Monahan are already more playmakers than snipers (I know Monahan is a 30 goal scorer, but if he played with a sniper he'd get 40-50 assists too), I'm not sure Tkachuk will fit with them since he is the same way. Bennett on the otherhand, he would not only create space, but he is a shooter first and foremost.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the future of this team will be best served by converting one of Bennett or Jankowski to wing full time.

The Flames are adamant in keeping Bennett as a centre so a promotion for him to the first line would come at the expense of Monahan. In theory, I would support such a move because Monahan can score without Gaudreau, and is often more involved offensively too.

But imo, Tkachuk is more skilled at creating space. It remains to be seen just how much Backlund and Frolik are elevating his game, but we saw all how well Monahan did with Gaudreau and Hudler flanking him, despite Hudler also being considered more of a playmaker than a sniper too.

 

[Flameshomer]

That was Brouwer's best game as a flame IMO. Looks great on the fourth line, so let's just keep him there for the rest of the season. Glass is pretty meh IMO.

I would be in favor of moving Bennett to the wing full time. The guy has been playing great but has nothing to show for it yet. I think the wing could give him some confidence, while also allowing us to bring up Janko at centre.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Versteeg-Jankowski-Jagr
Ferland-Stajan-Brouwer

Is what I would like to see. That first line could be extra spicy.

Alternately if we're dead set with sam in the middle, I agree with the sentiment that gaudreau-bennett, Tkachuk-monahan pairs could see great success.

Gaudreau-Bennett-Versteeg
Tkachuk-Monahan-Jagr
Ferland-Backlund-Frolik
Lazar/Glass-Stajan-Brouwer

with Lazar playing up if Jagr needs a break.

 

[Mr Snrub]

That was Brouwer's best game as a flame IMO. Looks great on the fourth line, so let's just keep him there for the rest of the season. Glass is pretty meh IMO.

I would be in favor of moving Bennett to the wing full time. The guy has been playing great but has nothing to show for it yet. I think the wing could give him some confidence, while also allowing us to bring up Janko at centre.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Versteeg-Jankowski-Jagr
Ferland-Stajan-Brouwer

Is what I would like to see. That first line could be extra spicy.

Alternately if we're dead set with sam in the middle, I agree with the sentiment that gaudreau-bennett, Tkachuk-monahan pairs could see great success.

Gaudreau-Bennett-Versteeg
Tkachuk-Monahan-Jagr
Ferland-Backlund-Frolik
Lazar/Glass-Stajan-Brouwer

with Lazar playing up if Jagr needs a break.

Minor tweak but I'd prefer Bennett - Monahan - Gaudreau over Gaudreau - Bennett - Monahan since Bennett has played LW a fair amount but never RW.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lazar
Jankowski/Tkachuk - Monahan - Jagr
Jankowski/Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland - Stajan - Brouwer

I think a lineup like that would give us a chance to win a lot of games. I actually haven't hated Bennett's play so far this year. Long term I want Jankowski at center, but it's tough to do when the main goal of putting this lineup together was splitting up Gaudreau and Monahan. He could play 4C, but then I don't like the options we have for putting on Backlunds LW, since I want to see each of Monahan and Bennett play with good wingers, which means moving Tkachuk out of that spot, since I haven't like Versteeg much at all lately.

 

[djpatm]

I agree with everyone taking Ferland off the top line. He looks absolutely lost out there. I don't see why they won't try Sam Bennett there and have Jankowski take his place.

So stubborn.

 

[Mobiandi]

I think we should honestly go back to the lines we finished off with against Winnipeg, plus Jagr, minus Versteeg or Glass, because the first line has been really underwhelming so far

 

[FlamerForLife]

I hope lazar draws in tomorrow against his old team and we run these lines:
Gaudreau-bennett-lazar
Versteeg-monahan-jagr
Tkachuk-backlund-frolik
Ferland-stajan-brouwer

 

[crazyfisherman]

versteeg need to sit a game to get his crap together. hes passes, especially on the pp has caused more chances against than for

 

[Flameshomer]

I think with Versteeg what you see is what you get- yes he makes frustrating plays sometimes, but that's why he's been a career 3rd liner. Otherwise he'd be a top 6er in a lot of cases. The creativity he sometimes brings is a double edged sword.

IMO much like with Brouwer, playing him in a little bit lesser role with a bit more shelter will result in much more success. If we could manage to have them both on the 4th line with Stajan I think they would kill it.

 

[Mr Snrub]

If we're keeping the general lines we've been rolling most of the year, I'd like to keep Ferland on that top wing for the time being. I think four games is a pretty short amount of time to decide that it's not working out, especially considering how good that top line was at the end of last season.

If in a week and a half Ferland still isn't playing to the best of his abilities, then maybe do some shuffling. But I really think the guy is poised to break out this year.

 

[Lunatik]

If we're keeping the general lines we've been rolling most of the year, I'd like to keep Ferland on that top wing for the time being. I think four games is a pretty short amount of time to decide that it's not working out, especially considering how good that top line was at the end of last season.

If in a week and a half Ferland still isn't playing to the best of his abilities, then maybe do some shuffling. But I really think the guy is poised to break out this year.

Ferland hasn't done much on the top line since his little hot streak ended. The guy was only good for 6-8 games and has been unimpressive 2-3x that long now.

 

[Body Checker]

I'm not too worried about giving up lots of shots/chances last few games. I remember when we were a less talented team and would outwork a team in a game only to see guys like Hossa and the Sedins score a goal after we had tons of chances in their end. It's really nice to have more talent that can still win when outplayed. Obviously gotta improve in own end but I don't see it as overly alarming.

 

[Anglesmith]

I'm not too worried about giving up lots of shots/chances last few games. I remember when we were a less talented team and would outwork a team in a game only to see guys like Hossa and the Sedins score a goal after we had tons of chances in their end. It's really nice to have more talent that can still win when outplayed. Obviously gotta improve in own end but I don't see it as overly alarming.

I don't think it's really our defensive game that is leading to the lopsided shots. I think we're having trouble consistently passing the puck and moving up-ice as a cohesive unit. Hard to say what the bigger issue would be. But yeah, everything seems less of a problem when you're above .500.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Bennett would be a much better fit that Tkachuk. Gaudreau and Monahan are already more playmakers than snipers (I know Monahan is a 30 goal scorer, but if he played with a sniper he'd get 40-50 assists too), I'm not sure Tkachuk will fit with them since he is the same way. Bennett on the otherhand, he would not only create space, but he is a shooter first and foremost.

Ferland hasn't done much on the top line since his little hot streak ended. The guy was only good for 6-8 games and has been unimpressive 2-3x that long now.

That's not just Ferland. The entire top line has been unimpressive for 80% of the season so far. They've had some really good bursts (Gaudreau in particular) but those were interspersed between long bouts of nothing. I will say I've been really happy with Monahan's defensive play so far though.

 

[Lunatik]

I don't think it's really our defensive game that is leading to the lopsided shots. I think we're having trouble consistently passing the puck and moving up-ice as a cohesive unit. Hard to say what the bigger issue would be. But yeah, everything seems less of a problem when you're above .500.

Let's not forget that because of these crackdowns on slashing and such, there are more shots being taken as well, both because of the powerplays and because of the slashes not happening. Don't get me wrong, we need to smarten up as well, but shots are up league wide.