Jack Johnson leaves Michigan and is a KING!!!

[Dr Love]

Well I disagree with that notion when presented in that way.

Here's what he said:

So he might have been sitting in the pressbox, but getting to practice with the team and get an experience of a lifetime, and you turn it down.

He states that he would be watching the games from the pressbox, but he'd get to practice and it would be the experience of a lifetime. It's quite clear. If he's not going to play then what is the experience of a lifetime? Practicing. Which he will do for the rest of his career.

Though, it would be a rather interesting experience even to practice with a team that went on to win the Stanley Cup.

Certainly, but I can't say it's very tempting.

Of course, he had no way of knowing at the time how the time would do in the Playoffs so it's a moot point.

Exactly. So the opportunity of a lifetime is one only in hindsight.

I understood the decision for him at the time, but still took it a little hard. I held out hope that he wanted to play here, but that was the first sign that things had turned for the worst. You just don't see prospects like Johnson traded usually. That's why the return on him many people question, because there isn't a great deal to base the return on.

A fair point, and you're right, prospects that highly regarded aren't dealt. Eric Lindros immediately comes to mind, but he was beyond what Johnson was as a prospect. A contemporary example would be Patrick O'Sullivan netted Pavol Demitra. I think you'd have to look to draft day trades such as Fedotenko/Pitkanen Fleury/Horton as a litmus test as well, in cases like that the team knew what they were giving up in a prospect even though they hadn't actually drafted the prospect.

 

[Vagrant]

He states that he would be watching the games from the pressbox, but he'd get to practice and it would be the experience of a lifetime. It's quite clear. If he's not going to play then what is the experience of a lifetime? Practicing. Which he will do for the rest of his career.

You're missing me. I said I thought it would be dumb for him to sit in the press box and waste his college eligibility for that. That's what my statement of "I disagree with the notion presented that way", came from. I disagree that it would be fruitful for a prospect like Johnson to sit in the press box for the playoffs regardless of the outcome. I was taking your side! Heh.

 

[Dr Love]

You're missing me. I said I thought it would be dumb for him to sit in the press box and waste his college eligibility for that. That's what my statement of "I disagree with the notion presented that way", came from. I disagree that it would be fruitful for a prospect like Johnson to sit in the press box for the playoffs regardless of the outcome. I was taking your side! Heh.

This is the worst argument ever!

 

[Beauty eh?]

I really have nothing to add to this thread other than I cannot wait until the Kings play the Canes next season.

 

[daikan]

Wow, people are "feeling sorry for Carolina fans"? They must all have short memories.

 

[DaveG]

I really have nothing to add to this thread other than I cannot wait until the Kings play the Canes next season.

Going to have to wait a bit longer then that.

 

[Face Wash]

I actually agree with the guy. Blake is the last guy that I want "teaching" him the game(Crawford would be number two). Off ice work ethic? Sure. But Blake is still making the exact same stupid mistakes he's made since he stepped on the ice for the Kings the first year.

Lege, the Kings pay coaches to teach young players things like positioning and "system." Nobody can teach "tendencies," not even Blake. They want JJ to learn what being a pro means. Blake is one of the best players in the league to teach that... certainly one of the best players on THIS team.

That's what Larry Robinson taught Blake, that's what Blake will pass along to JJ.

You don't like Blake on the ice, fine... but he has a lot of value in this situation, like it or not.

 

[Live in the Now]

I really have nothing to add to this thread other than I cannot wait until the Kings play the Canes next season.

You're picking the Canes and Kings to meet in the Finals already?

What a bold prediction.

 

[JT8888]

I see JJ situation with Canes the same way i saw Kopitar with the Kings. Remember how bad Dave Taylor wanted to sign Kopitar after training camp, yet Kopitar said no because he wasnt ready to move into the pro's yet. I am just glad they didnt trade Kopitar like the Canes traded JJ. Being a Kings fan i really miss Gleason but i think that JJ will help us more.

 

[FlameofTheWest]

Why does this guy get hammered for wanting to experince life at his boyhood favorite school. The kid grew up down the street from U of M and loves the school, why is this so frowned upon? So if you have a top prospect like say backstrom with the capitals and word has already come out that he probably wont come over to end this season or next. Does that mean he doesnt want to play with Washington and they should trade him? Jesus I mean come on, your talking about kids leaving being a kid behind and embracing becoming an adult. Whos to say when a kid is ready to make this step? So for that he doesnt want to ever play with this team and reenter the draft? Thats the biggest cop-out ive ever heard. Its easy to say hey he didnt want to play for us instead of stepping back and trusting that the kid and his family knows whats best for him. Do you think the Capitals will have a hard time waiting on a guy like backstrom? Do you think the penguins thought about trading Malkin cause he wanted to honor his committment to his Russian team? This isnt a new idea of guys waiting to come to the league. There is something to be said for experincing college life and not making the cash grab. So you throw money in a kids face and he doesnt jump so now he doesnt want to play for your team?


From day one Johnson stated that he would be at Michigan probably 2 years. Im a Michigan alumn, im around the campus and the sports programs alot. From day one the kid came on campus he said he wanted to try and win a championship there. To be dissapointed that he wants to stay I understand, to bash him for doing it is pety. If Jacks potential is so much in question why were they beating down his door to join the playoff push? In the states kids are praised for staying in college in other sports to matture and grow. This has to be one of the only times a guy gets vilified for taking extra time to matture in college. There are numerous instances of highly touted guys waiting a little longer to jump to the NHL and off the top of my head I cant remember them being traded for it. Think the penguins werent frustrated with Malkins situation? God forbid Erik Johnson actually likes Minnesota and stays in college, maybe he will get traded to eh? I challange any one to produce anything stating that Jack did not want to play for Carolina. Noone will come up with anything cause he never said it. A talent like Malkin, Backstrom, Johnson, etc. you wait a few years for hands down.

 

[5mn Major]

JJ is HF #2 prospect...I'd say that translates into a #1 pick overall. What would you trade for the top pick overall whose on his way to achieving that potential (if it was even an option)?

Another way to look at it...last year's WCHA players are 7 of the top 20 rookie scorers in the NHL this year. Even so, JJ was the best player I saw this year...and that includes all of the WCHA.

I'm a Minnesota Gophers fan and a heterosexual...and I had dreams about this guy!

 

[caniac247]

Johnson made a commitment and promise to Red Berenson that he will be in Michigan for two years. Carolina new this. He publicly stated this multiple times. Carolina couldn't convince him to leave school early, so they panicked to get help now and overlooked the future of the franchise. Gleason is a good #3-4 type defenseman, but he won't be an impact defenseman like Johnson and it is possible for Carolina to miss the playoffs. How does that help the Hurricanes?

JJ wanted to help Michigan win the NCAA championship. Apparently its been a lifelong dream of his. That's what we were told when he turned down the invite during last years playoffs, straight from his father.

The fact that he turned down a team that was in the playoffs and had a great chance at winning it all, and now him leaving school to join a bottom dweller team just proves he was never going to sign here. What happened to the 'I want to help Michigan win the championship'? He just all of a sudden decided he doesn't want a championship with Michigan, something that has been a lifelong dream of his.

As far as Gleason helping the Hurricanes if they don't make the playoffs. Very simple. Without Gleason, the Hurricanes wouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot. They would be sitting way out of contention like Washington. Gleason has been an instrumental part of this team. He is paired with Wallin and the 2 of them have become our top pairing. Him and Wallin go out against the opposing teams top players and have done an excellent job. When a one goal lead needs to be held with a minute left, who do you think Lavi puts out there....Gleason and Wallin. Lavi will tell you in a heartbeat that he has no problems putting Gleason out when it really counts.

Didn't really follow Gleason when he was out in LA as I don't get to see many west coast teams, so don't know how he faired in LA. But he is fairing very nicely here and easily became a fan favorite. The other canes boards have been giving this kid major kudos for the past couple months.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

The guy wouldn't sign with Carolina so what were they supposed to do? Let him become re-enter the draft after he graduates? Nope, get something for him while his value was still high (and it wasn't even really that high). Everyone who says the canes were stupid for being impatient doesn't understand the full scope of the situation. They offered him numerous contracts and he just did not want to play for this organization. Let's see someone on this board get a guy like that signed. Geeze.

 

[FlameofTheWest]

Can you please tell me when is the last time a draft pick that high stayed in college in order to re-enter the draft. It sounds to me like guys are really reaching, when is the last time a top 5 pick did this? Two years into college and you know that he was planning on er-entering the draft? Let me ask you this, did you ever think Malkin was going to come over and play for the Pens? Would you have supported the Canes trading Malkin in the situation the Pens were in? How many times did malkin say he was coming?

 

[caniac247]

Here's what he said:



He states that he would be watching the games from the pressbox, but he'd get to practice and it would be the experience of a lifetime. It's quite clear. If he's not going to play then what is the experience of a lifetime? Practicing. Which he will do for the rest of his career.



Certainly, but I can't say it's very tempting.

I'm not positive of the deal offered to him so maybe he would have dressed and played. But either way, if you are given the opportunity to join the team that you will eventually be playing for, why don't do it? Whether you play or not. Being with the team during the playoffs will give you an experience.

 

[stazza18]

I'm not positive of the deal offered to him so maybe he would have dressed and played. But either way, if you are given the opportunity to join the team that you will eventually be playing for, why don't do it? Whether you play or not. Being with the team during the playoffs will give you an experience.

Would doing this last year have effected his eligibility? Not sure.

 

[FlameofTheWest]

If he had signed the deal and done that, his Michigan career would have been over. He would have lost his amateur status.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

The guy wouldn't sign with Carolina so what were they supposed to do? Let him become re-enter the draft after he graduates? Nope, get something for him while his value was still high (and it wasn't even really that high). Everyone who says the canes were stupid for being impatient doesn't understand the full scope of the situation. They offered him numerous contracts and he just did not want to play for this organization. Let's see someone on this board get a guy like that signed. Geeze.

Again, who said Johnson wouldn't sign with Carolina? Crickets...............or wait, should I read between the lines again?

 

[caniac247]

Can you please tell me when is the last time a draft pick that high stayed in college in order to re-enter the draft. It sounds to me like guys are really reaching, when is the last time a top 5 pick did this? Two years into college and you know that he was planning on er-entering the draft? Let me ask you this, did you ever think Malkin was going to come over and play for the Pens? Would you have supported the Canes trading Malkin in the situation the Pens were in? How many times did malkin say he was coming?

Since some believe JR just woke up one morning and said oh i think i'll put offers out on the table for JJ is wrong. This was NOT an easy choice for JR. For months JR, Lavi and PK had meetings with JJ and his father. I've been keeping my mouth shut but there's too many on here that haven't a clue. My friends husband happens to work in/around the organization. What PK got out of those meetings was that JJ does not want to sign here. JR did not want to give up on the kid, but PK told him to pull the trigger b/c nothing he does will change the kids mind.

FYI: in those meetings, the 2 years went to 4 years.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

The bitterness of Canes fans makes me chuckle.

 

[FlameofTheWest]

Ive never heard or seen JJ or his dad say anything about staying four years. Funny that all the heat Rutherford has come under for the deal noone from the Canes has ever stated anything to that affect. My thought is that to help the fanbase understand why such a highly touted prospect was traded the fact that he wanted to stay in school for four years would have surfaced. Being familar with how of PK works I cant see him pulling any punches and not letting this fact be known.

 

[Deleted member 3032]

I just don't get the hole "prospects can be busts" or "he didn't prove anything in the NHL, so he's worth nothing for us RIGHT NOW". The only kid that had so much hype around him and busted is Alexandre Daigle.

I feel I have to comment on this, and I'm surprised this earned only one response.

First thing: No way, no how is Jack Johnson close to the prospect that Alexander Daigle was. Daigle was thought to be a sure-fire superstar -- a "generational" talent that some thought would rival that of Gretzky or Lemieux. Johnson is thought to have the potential to maybe become a franchise defenseman. Significant difference.

Second thing: I have no clue how someone can say Daigle is the only hyped prospect to bust. He isn't even the biggest bust. To take a player that was already mentioned in this thread, Oleg Tverdovsky, who was more hyped than Jack Johnson (although not as much as Diagle). He really was referred to as "The Russian Bobby Orr". Now, he wasn't really thought to become as good as Bobby Orr, but he was considered an amazing prospect. Many people thought he would become one of, if not the best, Russian defenseman of all time. While he put up some decent seasons, I think anyone would agree he became nothing close to what he was expected to become.

Slava Kozlov was another player expected to become a lot better than he was, although he still became a very useful player. Hell, Aki Berg was thought to become a star defenseman. Kris Beech, Milan Kraft, Chad Kilger (top line PF), Alexei Tezikov (potential superstar defenseman) Steve Kelly, Terry Ryan, Andrei Zyuzin (top-2 dman), Alexander Volchkov, Johnathan Aitken, Daniel Tkaczuk, Rico Fata (offensive star), Manny Malhotra (2nd line center at worst), Pavel Brendl (multiple Rocket Richard winner), Jason Bonsignore. That is just mostly players picked in the top-10 in a five year period.

 

[snakepliskin]

The guy wouldn't sign with Carolina so what were they supposed to do? Let him become re-enter the draft after he graduates? Nope, get something for him while his value was still high (and it wasn't even really that high). Everyone who says the canes were stupid for being impatient doesn't understand the full scope of the situation. They offered him numerous contracts and he just did not want to play for this organization. Let's see someone on this board get a guy like that signed. Geeze.

ditto--johnson showed no interest and rebuffed all efforts to sign w/ us last year and this year --i will say that anybody making fun of jim rutherford after 2 eastern
conf championships and a stanley cup in 4 years are a little misguided--we needed help and he got us gleason who shuld be solid for us for years to come

 

[Vagrant]

Again, who said Johnson wouldn't sign with Carolina? Crickets...............or wait, should I read between the lines again?

You don't have to read between the lines. All you have to do is watch how the status changed.

1. Draft Day - "I'll sign with the Hurricanes if they offer me a contract today", not a direct quote but very close.

2. Start of the Playoffs - "I refused Carolina because I plan to play at Michigan for two years".

3. Before the start of this season - "I plan to play at least two seasons with Michigan. I want to win a National Championship".

This is how the progression of things went. I think the worst that can be said from the Hurricanes end is that they offended Johnson with their constant pursuit of his services. Which is well... rather odd.

Then he gets traded and signs just as soon as the Michigan season is over. Not a coincidence.

 

[Michigan Wolverine]

Since some believe JR just woke up one morning and said oh i think i'll put offers out on the table for JJ is wrong. This was NOT an easy choice for JR. For months JR, Lavi and PK had meetings with JJ and his father. I've been keeping my mouth shut but there's too many on here that haven't a clue. My friends husband happens to work in/around the organization. What PK got out of those meetings was that JJ does not want to sign here. JR did not want to give up on the kid, but PK told him to pull the trigger b/c nothing he does will change the kids mind.

There's a lot of he-said, she-said going on with regards to the Johnson trade, so I'm going to lay down some evidence. You are absolutely right that the Canes spent months making the decision, and even publically they went back-and-forth on the matter.

"The thought process of trading Jack Johnson has gone on for several months. We've done a lot of internal work on it..."

http://www.carolinahurricanes.com/custom/rad4EE1E.asp

As for what Karmanos got out of it, that's another matter. But I wouldn't assume it's a one-way street. Johnson left the situation with a distaste for Karmanos. I have no idea what his opinion of Rutherford was/is. But it's very possible that the Canes had much to do with the love lost between the two parties. I somewhat doubt that Johnson had anything against the Canes organization or playing there, as I have not seen anything but speculation on this, but there is good evidence that he has serious issues with Karmanos. If you want to say he had no intentions of playing for Karmanos, that may have been accurate in the end.

When was this commitment made? Before or after draft day. On draft day during an interview, which I may be able to dig up given the time, he stated that he would sign a contract at the moment should Carolina want to bring him in the fold. At the time, Carolina thought it best for his development to let him play a year of college hockey before bringing him on board the way they did with David Tanabe. When Carolina had the good fortune they had last season, they decided that it was worth the risk to bring Johnson on board for the playoffs and he balked. That's when the two year commitment and I stress, at least, started to crop up.

I'd like to see the draft day interview you're referring to. I haven't come across anything to that effect. It wasn't a secret that he intended to play for the Wolverines as part of fulfilling a childhood dream, and that he wanted (but never promised, as some here suggest) to win a national championship in Ann Arbor.

This was from the Michigan Daily, soon after he was drafted:

Johnson is pleased that the Hurricanes have been so patient with his decision to play at Michigan.

"It's great for me and says a lot about the Carolina Hurricanes," Johnson said. "I will make my decision and do what's best for me. And I think the best thing for me is to be here at Michigan, and it's great that they understand that."

http://media.www.michigandaily.com/...0/06/Faceoff/You-Dont.Know.Jack-1431888.shtml

And Carolina approached him during the season, which probably did not help their relationship:

Berenson was especially glad for the Kings' assurances that they wouldn't try to sign Johnson until after Michigan's season ends, and that there would be no mid-season offers like the one Johnson received after he returned from the 2006 World Junior Championship.

"That's the first time we've ever had anything like that happen," Berenson said of the mid-season offer from Carolina. "That was disappointing. We're not a pro team. We don't trade players or send them down or bring them up in the middle of the season, but obviously, we weren't treated that way."

http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-hockey/stories/092906aag.html

And after that, Carolina actively pursued the idea again when it was apparent that they'd start the season having traded Ward earlier and without Tanabe. This was already close to the new college season, and Johnson had already committed himself to another year:

They tried to lure in Johnson with the promise of a spot in their top-six rotation and minutes on the power play.

"I just felt more comfortable coming back to school," Johnson told The Michigan Daily after Carolina's final offer two weeks ago. "I'm not ready to leave (Michigan) at the 11th hour, a couple weeks before the season starts. I just don't think that's the right thing to do. It's not fair to the program."

http://media.www.michigandaily.com/...ey/Canes.Trade.Johnson.To.Kings-2319336.shtml

This is a kid that intends to play a few games to finish the NHL season, then skip the AHL playoffs to go back and study toward his degree. Isn't it possible that his priorities were different from the norm and explicit from the start? I just don't see any flip-flop in his statements or actions. He told everyone he wanted to go to Michigan and he did. He told Red Berenson he'd play for the Wolverines, and he stuck by that. He told Red he'd be back for his sophomore year, and he stuck by that.

OTOH, it certainly sounds like Carolina was willing to wait (at the draft)... then wasn't (during the season)... then pushed too hard (during the season)... then considered a trade (during the season)... then was willing to wait... then wasn't (right before the next season)... then wanted to trade (when rumors first swirled publically)... then said they wouldn't (JR, publically)... then pulled the trigger (one week after saying they wouldn't).

Don't get me wrong, I think JR is a good GM and have no reason to believe that he didn't ultimately do the right thing here, I just don't understand why some people are quick to lay blame on Johnson (based on speculation) when the public record provides no evidence against him.