Speculation: Ivan Provorov Trade Discourse Part II

[Hollywood Cannon]

Fair Warning To Outsiders Attempting To Turn The Flyers Board Into The Main Boards… You’re Going To Have A Bad Time.

ANY AND ALL OUTSIDERS ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS BEFORE POSTS MADE WILL BE RESPONDED TO BY FLYERS POSTERS:

1) What locker room talk have you experienced that would make us stroke out in three minutes?
2) Do you have your adenoids, yes or no?
3) Is a Hot Dog a sandwich?
4) Who is your favorite player?
5) Have you or anyone in your family participated in leaving YouTube comments?

* Board Moderators reserve the right to add or remove questions at any time at their sole discretion. Simply answering the above questions does not grant poster the ability to post whatever they want.

Click to read more...

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I have argued no such thing, of course.

View attachment 644636

You not thinking your talking points through thoroughly isn't a straw man.

When you paint with a brush so broad, the idea doesn't hold up to scrutiny. It's one of the most basic checkboxes possible to see if you or I or anyone else just wants a line drawn where it makes sense to you.

 

[mja]

Can you think of any instances where “drag” verged into “porn”? Or, say, pedophilia?

I have to say, I think you’re living twenty-five years in the past before Pride metastasized into what it is - at least at the fringes - today.

So Pride has metastasized into pedophilia? I see we've dropped any pretense of not being homophobic.

Lot of veiled hatred going on in this thread. Although, it's not actually veiled at all.

Don't worry, this isn't libel or slander.

Yeah, the post above certainly isn't veiled at all.

 

[Beef Invictus]

For fun, let's review the history of ridiculous and pointless and baseless outrage in the US. Starting now and working back to Reconstruction. Quick, rough outline. I know a lot of people who are constantly suckling the diseased teat of the Outrage Machine. It is a transgenerational addiction.

-Drag shows, bathroom usage, trans athletes, vaccines (all signs of Western Civ falling apart)
-Gays getting married, Muslims existing (They are certain to destroy Western Civ with their Sharias)
-Video Games, rap music from a certain "urban" population (historically known as "negro music")
-Arcades
-Men and women hanging out. Even having casual sex! (It was certain this would be the downfall of Western Civ), Desegregation, Interracial relationships, Desegregation being a vehicle for some anomalous (probably Jewish) group to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization by polluting racial bloodlines.
-Pinball, Comic Books (such mindless diversions are a sign of rotting civilization)
-The Catholic Kennedys are surely bringing about the downfall of Western Civilization in service of the Pope.
-This new fangled "Rock And Roll" negro music (certainly a sign of the imminent downfall of Western Civ)
-Communists are everywhere and are certain to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization, vaccines
-Jazz (strong negro element, a sure sign of the imminent downfall of Western Civilization)
-Theory of Evolution Part II
-Booze (Getting rid of it will fix rotting Western Civilization)
-Flappers, whose loose morals and independence are certain to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization
-Socialists are everywhere and are certain to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization
-Automobiles
-Movies (Men and Women often go together, which will bring about the downfall of Western Civilization)
-Theory of Evolution Part I
-Rag (negro music again)
-Novels, bicycles, vaccines (all certain to cave in Western Civilization)
-Italian anarcho-papists are to blame for all crime in all cities because every one of them is part of the Black Hand which was actually on par with scam phone calls but was believed to be a global conspiracy to overthrow Western Civilization so it would be best to attack and lynch Italians.
-Secret forces are working to make sure The Blacks will be in charge which will cave in civilization

Because there wasn't a one-stop media shop back then to get your fill of these conspiracies, this stuff used to be spread in magazines, mailed periodicals, and newsletters dedicated to each ridiculous theory. For generations, some segment of society has been latching onto some Outrage Of The Day and insisting it is bringing about the end of decency, morality, and civilization. That never happens, and they just bounce along to the next outrage. Today it's LGBT stuff. 50 years from now people will be laughing at that. Tomorrow, who knows what fresh pointless thing they'll find to be outraged against. Probably some new Black music, if history is a predictor.

What a constant waste of time it is to be freaking out about this. The above is the club you're in.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

For fun, let's review the history of ridiculous and pointless and baseless outrage in the US. Starting now and working back to Reconstruction. Quick, rough outline. I know a lot of people who are constantly suckling the diseased teat of the Outrage Machine. It is a transgenerational addiction.

-Drag shows, bathroom usage, trans athletes, vaccines
-Gays getting married, Muslims existing (They are certain to destroy Western Civ with their Sharias)
-Video Games, rap music from a certain "urban" population (historically known as "negro music")
-Arcades
-Men and women hanging out. Even having casual sex! (It was certain this would be the downfall of Western Civ), Desegregation, Interracial relationships, Desegregation being a vehicle for some anomalous (probably Jewish) group to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization by polluting racial bloodlines.
-Pinball, Comic Books
-The Catholic Kennedys are surely bringing about the downfall of Western Civilization in service of the Pope.
-This new fangled "Rock And Roll" negro music (certainly a sign of the imminent downfall of Western Civ)
-Communists are everywhere and are certain to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization, vaccines
-Jazz (strong negro element, a sure sign of the imminent downfall of Western Civilization)
-Theory of Evolution Part II
-Booze (Getting rid of it will fix rotting Western Civilization)
-Flappers, whose loose morals and independence are certain to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization
-Socialists are everywhere and are certain to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization
-Automobiles
-Movies (Men and Women often go together, which will bring about the downfall of Western Civilization)
-Theory of Evolution Part I
-Rag (negro music again)
-Novels, bicycles, vaccines (all certain to cave in Western Civilization)
-Italian anarcho-papists are to blame for all crime in all cities because every one of them is part of the Black Hand which was actually on par with scam phone calls but was believed to be a global conspiracy to overthrow Western Civilization so it would be best to attack and lynch Italians.
-Secret forces are working to make sure The Blacks will be in charge which will cave in civilization

Because there wasn't a one-stop media shop back then to get your fill of these conspiracies, this stuff used to be spread in magazines, mailed periodicals, and newsletters dedicated to each ridiculous theory. For generations, some segment of society has been latching onto some Outrage Of The Day and insisting it is bringing about the end of decency, morality, and civilization. That never happens, and they just bounce along to the next outrage. Today it's LGBT stuff. 50 years from now people will be laughing at that. Tomorrow, who knows what fresh pointless thing they'll find to be outraged against. Probably some new Black music, if history is a predictor.

What a constant waste of time it is to be freaking out about this. The above is the club you're in.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ooooooooooooooooh I forgot to mention one:

-Dungeons and Dragons (Certain to bring about downfall of Western Civilization)

 

[flyersnorth]

Bernie, Hitler had willing executioners...I think it is very important to understand why and how.....

Hannah Arendt got it right in The Banality of Evil.

It's easy to convince people to do anything if you first convince them it is the right thing to do.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

For fun, let's review the history of ridiculous and pointless and baseless outrage in the US. Starting now and working back to Reconstruction. Quick, rough outline. I know a lot of people who are constantly suckling the diseased teat of the Outrage Machine. It is a transgenerational addiction.

-Drag shows, bathroom usage, trans athletes, vaccines
-Gays getting married, Muslims existing (They are certain to destroy Western Civ with their Sharias)
-Video Games, rap music from a certain "urban" population (historically known as "negro music")
-Arcades
-Men and women hanging out. Even having casual sex! (It was certain this would be the downfall of Western Civ), Desegregation, Interracial relationships, Desegregation being a vehicle for some anomalous (probably Jewish) group to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization by polluting racial bloodlines.
-Pinball, Comic Books
-The Catholic Kennedys are surely bringing about the downfall of Western Civilization in service of the Pope.
-This new fangled "Rock And Roll" negro music (certainly a sign of the imminent downfall of Western Civ)
-Communists are everywhere and are certain to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization, vaccines
-Jazz (strong negro element, a sure sign of the imminent downfall of Western Civilization)
-Theory of Evolution Part II
-Booze (Getting rid of it will fix rotting Western Civilization)
-Flappers, whose loose morals and independence are certain to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization
-Socialists are everywhere and are certain to bring about the downfall of Western Civilization
-Automobiles
-Movies (Men and Women often go together, which will bring about the downfall of Western Civilization)
-Theory of Evolution Part I
-Rag (negro music again)
-Novels, bicycles, vaccines (all certain to cave in Western Civilization)
-Italian anarcho-papists are to blame for all crime in all cities because every one of them is part of the Black Hand which was actually on par with scam phone calls but was believed to be a global conspiracy to overthrow Western Civilization so it would be best to attack and lynch Italians.
-Secret forces are working to make sure The Blacks will be in charge which will cave in civilization

Because there wasn't a one-stop media shop back then to get your fill of these conspiracies, this stuff used to be spread in magazines, mailed periodicals, and newsletters dedicated to each ridiculous theory. For generations, some segment of society has been latching onto some Outrage Of The Day and insisting it is bringing about the end of decency, morality, and civilization. That never happens, and they just bounce along to the next outrage. Today it's LGBT stuff. 50 years from now people will be laughing at that. Tomorrow, who knows what fresh pointless thing they'll find to be outraged against. Probably some new Black music, if history is a predictor.

What a constant waste of time it is to be freaking out about this. The above is the club you're in.

You can't fool me. If you read this post backwards, it says "Let's give fentanyl to preschoolers. Hail Nyarlathotep."

 

[Beef Invictus]

You can't fool me. If you read this post backwards, it says "Let's give fentanyl to preschoolers. Hail Nyarlathotep."

Pope Nyarlathotep

By the way, the anti-papist conspiracy theories still very much survive today. There are people still outraged about that. It's just that outlets like Fox understand it would be suicidal to run that content.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Ooooooooooooooooh I forgot to mention one:

-Dungeons and Dragons (Certain to bring about downfall of Western Civilization)

That cuts deep Beef... really deep

 

[flyersnorth]

You can't fool me. If you read this post backwards, it says "Let's give fentanyl to preschoolers. Hail Nyarlathotep."

This got me thinking about my obsession back in the day with spinning vinyl backwards to hear all those "backwards message" people didn't want me to hear.

 

[mja]

I am not talking specifically about Provorov (that’s a straw man).

I’m making a broader point:

If one does not endorse everything associated with the Pride movement, & therefore does not feel comfortable with participating & promoting a Pride event, does that make one a “homophobe” & “bigot”?

Is it not enough to support freedom of adult sexual choice & equality of opportunity for those who identify as LGBTQ?

Posters here in the last few pages have made it clear:

It is not enough.

You must agree with & actively celebrate (if asked) everything that gets attached to the “Pride” movement, or else you are a homophobe & bigot.

Even, for instance, drag shows at schools.

So who gets to decide when it goes too far? Who is the grand arbiter of moral judgment? Is it impossible for it to go too far (hence, for example, my porn analogy)?

I don’t think so. History sure doesn’t demonstrate so. And some day you may be on the “wrong” side of it.

Let me help you here, because there's a lot of nuance here you seem to be missing.

First of all, your analogies are awful, homophobic, and unhelpful in having a useful discussion about this topic. You should stop using them immediately, lest you continue to give people the wrong idea.

Second of all, you really should stop conceptualizing Pride as a monolithic dogmatic movement, or even necessarily a movement at all. One need not endorse drag shows in kindergartens to be not homophobic or not a bigot. What one must do, however, is not use specious analogies to argue in favor of bigoted positions or acts. That's where you are falling short.

Wearing a pride jersey doesn't mean you are endorsing or not endorsing drag show in kindergartens. All it means is that you are welcoming all fans and players to the sport, regardless of who they are attracted to and/or love. That's it. No more, no less. So when a player goes out of his way to avoid doing that, yes, he's being homophobic. And then when he cites his religious convictions in doing so, and the golden rule of that religion is do unto others as you would have them do unto you, he's being homophobic.

One last thing: depending on context and content, there's nothing inherently wrong with kids being exposed to people in drag.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Again I need to ask of some, when did society reach the point (left and right leaning) that the extremes are the normal? It used to be a person on the extremes was looked at as the issue not the group as a whole that those extremists try to tie themselves into.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Let me help you here, because there's a lot of nuance here you seem to be missing.

First of all, your analogies are awful, homophobic, and unhelpful in having a useful discussion about this topic. You should stop using them immediately, lest you continue to give people the wrong idea.

Second of all, you really should stop conceptualizing Pride as a monolithic dogmatic movement, or even necessarily a movement at all. One need not endorse drag shows in kindergartens to be not homophobic or not a bigot. What one must do, however, is not use specious analogies to argue in favor of bigoted positions or acts. That's where you are falling short.

Wearing a pride jersey doesn't mean you are endorsing or not endorsing drag show in kindergartens. All it means is that you are welcoming all fans and players to the sport, regardless of who they are attracted to and/or love. That's it. No more, no less. So when a player goes out of his way to avoid doing that, yes, he's being homophobic. And then when he cites his religious convictions in doing so, and the golden rule of that religion is do unto others as you would have them do unto you, he's being homophobic.

One last thing: depending on context and content, there's nothing inherently wrong with kids being exposed to people in drag.

Oh I think he's giving people the right idea regarding his homophobia.

 

[mja]

Oh I think he's giving people the right idea regarding his homophobia.

Don't mind me, I just enjoy tweaking him by "taking him at face value."

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's also worth pointing out that this "drag in schools is common" thing is a myth rooted in the lies and embellishments of his preferred outrage machine. It's just not a problem in the real world. A kid is way, way more likely to be shot than be forced to watch a drag show in school.

 

[Lara Emily]

Again I need to ask of some, when did society reach the point (left and right leaning) that the extremes are the normal? It used to be a person on the extremes was looked at as the issue not the group as a whole that those extremists try to tie themselves into.

Right wing extremism has been the defacto right wing position since forever

There's no significant left wing extremism in mainstream politics or social policy.

 

[freakydallas13]

If you are worried about kids being exposed to predators, statistically you should be keeping them away from priests, not drag queens.

 

[Curufinwe]

A kid is way, way more likely to be shot than be forced to watch a drag show in school.

An American kid, sure.

Also, getting shot with bullets is a lot worse than watching a drag show. For anyone!

 

[mja]

It's also worth pointing out that this "drag in schools is common" thing is a myth rooted in the lies and embellishments of his preferred outrage machine. It's just not a problem in the real world. A kid is way, way more likely to be shot than be forced to watch a drag show in school.

I'm pretty sure he is childless. Meanwhile, I have 3 children who between them have attended a combined 27 years at two of the most progressively-minded schools in the district and we've yet to run into our first drag show.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm pretty sure he is childless. Meanwhile, I have 3 children who between them have attended a combined 27 years at two of the most progressively-minded schools in the district and we've yet to run into our first drag show.

I tried to find drag shows for kids in my region and there's not a single one somehow, despite the claims from the Outrage Universe.

This is just like all the people who've been showing up at school board meetings to abuse the school board over fake things they saw on Outrage News, despite having zero kids in school.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Again I need to ask of some, when did society reach the point (left and right leaning) that the extremes are the normal? It used to be a person on the extremes was looked at as the issue not the group as a whole that those extremists try to tie themselves into.

When? About the time that people had losing arguments or stances and pointing to the fringes and casting them as the entirety is the only way that they can try to dig themselves out.

Everyone on the other "side" is the boogeyman.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's also worth pointing out that this "drag in schools is common" thing is a myth rooted in the lies and embellishments of his preferred outrage machine. It's just not a problem in the real world. A kid is way, way more likely to be shot than be forced to watch a drag show in school.

It is interesting to me how some things take root. Take the idea of cat litter in schools. It turned out there was a school district somewhere that specifically kept cat litter on hand.

Unfortunately it was the district Columbine was in and it was kept as part of a go bag for shooting protocols.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Welp, speaking of the boogeyman.

I'm going to be the boogeyman. This has go gone on long enough and seemingly isn't tied to Provorov even in the slightest anymore. It's sad to see that in doing so some people's thinly veiled hatred will not be shown any more sunlight but alas.

Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

My post stating my position on Provy's stance, in the Provy stance thread, is a straw man argument? Wat.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It is interesting to me how some things take root. Take the idea of cat litter in schools. It turned out there was a school district somewhere that specifically kept cat litter on hand.

Unfortunately it was the district Columbine was in and it was kept as part of a go bag for shooting protocols.

It's also really good for soaking up puke.