Panopticon
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Jacobv2 said:Olesz could have gone and matched his performance, but he's too old.
Jacobv2 said:Olesz could have gone and matched his performance, but he's too old.
Yes, there are some overzealous Caps/Ovechkin fans here. At the same time, there are some Pens/Malkin fans whose "Malkin has just as much potential as Ovechkin" posts originated at the exact moment when the Caps won the lottery.Jaded-Fan said:Not just Foppa_Rules but every post that has anything to do with Malkin, or any top prospect, seems to become an AO shrine . . . not just on this board but even on the Pen's board . . .
GodZillaAteMyZamboni said:Yes, there are some overzealous Caps/Ovechkin fans here. At the same time, there are some Pens/Malkin fans whose "Malkin has just as much potential as Ovechkin" posts originated at the exact moment when the Caps won the lottery.
In the days leading up to the lottery, it was clear that some Pens fans felt they held some divine right to draft #1, while most Caps fans felt their team had no chance in H-E-double hockey sticks. Now that it's turned out the opposite way, I say let Caps fans have their day. Anyone would be ecstatic to have the #1 this year.
Jaded-Fan said:Actually if you speed back to before the draft the Pens fans were not some johnney come latelies to the Malkin bandwagon, which is why finishing last was so important and why Pens fans, both on the boards and in the media here were collectively jumping of buildings when the Pens had that win streak. I can only speak for me but saw others as well, who saw it as AO, a drop but not a huge one then Malkin . . . then a cliff. We had a 50/50 shot at AO, a small drop if we lost, which is how it happened to turn out. I for one said as much before the draft, others did too, though of course not all Pen's fans felt that way then or do now, just a good number if not most. It is not revisionist history once the Caps won the draft as you are implying.
That's true, there were some that wanted only to at least get #2, but I know there were a few "AO Watch" type threads also. I also agree with Captain Conservative in that Chicago got hosed. The most surprising aspect of this whole thing for Caps fans is that the Caps actually had a bit of good luck. With the history of that franchise, I think most of us expected to move back, not up to #1.Jaded-Fan said:Actually if you speed back to before the draft the Pens fans were not some johnney come latelies to the Malkin bandwagon, which is why finishing last was so important and why Pens fans, both on the boards and in the media here were collectively jumping of buildings when the Pens had that win streak. I can only speak for me but saw others as well, who saw it as AO, a drop but not a huge one then Malkin . . . then a cliff. We had a 50/50 shot at AO, a small drop if we lost, which is how it happened to turn out. I for one said as much before the draft, others did too, though of course not all Pen's fans felt that way then or do now, just a good number if not most. It is not revisionist history once the Caps won the draft as you are implying.
Kllingon said:i am an unbiased leaf fan.
i'll make two points
1.) as of right now, ovechkin is the superior talent
2.) malkin will be the better player and i would take EM over AO
he is a year younger than AO. a full yaer of development can do wonders especially if the player works on his skills 40+ hours a week in that one year. eric fehr improved dramatically in one yaer and like someone said, heatley wasn't even a top 50 rated player when he was 17-18 but when he was drafted at 20 years old, he was a consensus top 1-2 pick (dipietro came out of nowhere). one year of developmnt is crucial. everyone likes to hype about AO but i remember two years ago when the underdog kovalchuk beat out the heavily hyped spezza for the #1 spot. malkin has outperformed ovechkin this year at the WJC's and has quite a bigger frame too. i wouldn't be surprised if he becomes the player down the road. one extra year of development + more nhl savvy skills + a bigger frame = better nhl product.
i want to add in some of my personal comments. ovechkin has 9 goals while malkin has only 3 (but more assists) because ovechkin is a sniper while malkin is a playmaker. at the nhl level, the playmaker always outperforms the sniper. you simply can't translate your junior A (or RSL) moves into the big show while the vision and playmaking asstes often do find traction in the NHL.
Kllingon said:i am an unbiased leaf fan.
i'll make two points
1.) as of right now, ovechkin is the superior talent
2.) malkin will be the better player and i would take EM over AO
he is a year younger than AO. a full yaer of development can do wonders especially if the player works on his skills 40+ hours a week in that one year.
Kllingon said:i am an unbiased leaf fan.
i'll make two points
1.) as of right now, ovechkin is the superior talent
2.) malkin will be the better player and i would take EM over AO
he is a year younger than AO. a full yaer of development can do wonders especially if the player works on his skills 40+ hours a week in that one year. eric fehr improved dramatically in one yaer and like someone said, heatley wasn't even a top 50 rated player when he was 17-18 but when he was drafted at 20 years old, he was a consensus top 1-2 pick (dipietro came out of nowhere). one year of developmnt is crucial. everyone likes to hype about AO but i remember two years ago when the underdog kovalchuk beat out the heavily hyped spezza for the #1 spot. malkin has outperformed ovechkin this year at the WJC's and has quite a bigger frame too. i wouldn't be surprised if he becomes the player down the road. one extra year of development + more nhl savvy skills + a bigger frame = better nhl product.
i want to add in some of my personal comments. ovechkin has 9 goals while malkin has only 3 (but more assists) because ovechkin is a sniper while malkin is a playmaker. at the nhl level, the playmaker always outperforms the sniper. you simply can't translate your junior A (or RSL) moves into the big show while the vision and playmaking asstes often do find traction in the NHL.
EroCaps said:Ovechkin is an all-around talent that had more assists than Malkin this season. He's playing for the Russian Men's team at Worlds, and is outscoring Kovalchuck, among others. What else can this kid do? He's broken records, outperformed men, been voted an all-star at 18 playing in the second-best hockey league this planet has to offer. He's risen to meet every challenge.
His worst WJC, he scored more goals (5) than Malkin at his best WJC. I've seen nothing from Malkin suggesting he's about to blossom into the explosive talent that Ovechkin is, nothing.
Not from a per game basis. If you're only going to use stats to back up your arguments, please don't skew them to support your point.EroCaps said:Ovechkin is an all-around talent that had more assists than Malkin this season.
Malkin is a playmaker, Ovechkin the goal scorer, can we agree on that? Therefore, it's hard to base performance in an international tournament just based on goals, or even points, for that matter. People that follow intl tournaments know that assists are awarded very cautiously, much unlike the NHL.His worst WJC, he scored more goals (5) than Malkin at his best WJC.
You're missing the point. Some people are valuing that extra 10 months of development Ovechkin has had a lot. So it really doesn't matter what kind of stats you throw out there, some folks are going to continue to think that Malkin could be the better player.I've seen nothing from Malkin suggesting he's about to blossom into the explosive talent that Ovechkin is, nothing
Jaded-Fan said:You all make it very very hard to remain balanced in this, right when I am jumping in on AO's side in this thread, you all seem to want to tear Malkin down to lower than what he is. I could give a flying (fill in whatever you wish here) about your opinions, you (nor I) have never seen him play . . . oh wait, you all saw 2 or 3 ten second clips somewhere on both. Now you are an expert. Your opinion, or mine, means nothing at all my friend, but most scouts have said all year . . . it is AO . . . .Malkin . . .everyone else . . . and the gap between AO and Malkin is not the chasm that you all seem to be desperate to prove is there unless I have misread the scouting reports. There is a difference between the two but Malkin remains an elite prospect that has a chance of challenging to be what everyone is saying AO could be . . . sure he may not, AO may not, but I am allowed to be excited about what the scouts have said and trying to tear Malkin down is as bad as those saying that he is currently better than AO. Neither is true.
EroCaps said:It's like this, if a team had an explosive star winger, and needed a center, they'd take Malkin #1 overall. If not, they take the game breaker in AO. It's really not worth arguing over, it's so redundant.
Because I didn't make a statement. I asked a question.How is stereotyping Ovechkin as a "goal scorer" not "skewing" the facts?
You are dead right.EroCaps said:Does it matter?
Malkin has yet to outperform Ovechkin at any level.