Is Malkin really 10-11 months younger than Ovechkin???

[Panopticon]

Olesz could have gone and matched his performance, but he's too old.

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

Not just Foppa_Rules but every post that has anything to do with Malkin, or any top prospect, seems to become an AO shrine . . . not just on this board but even on the Pen's board . . .

Yes, there are some overzealous Caps/Ovechkin fans here. At the same time, there are some Pens/Malkin fans whose "Malkin has just as much potential as Ovechkin" posts originated at the exact moment when the Caps won the lottery.
In the days leading up to the lottery, it was clear that some Pens fans felt they held some divine right to draft #1, while most Caps fans felt their team had no chance in H-E-double hockey sticks. Now that it's turned out the opposite way, I say let Caps fans have their day. Anyone would be ecstatic to have the #1 this year.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

I say let the consensus all year speak for itself. Ovechkin is top prospect, then Malkin, then the rest of the pack. Ovechkin has an absurdly high ceiling, Malkin has a very promising ceiling at all.

That's about all there is to it, and all there has been to it all year.

 

[Fiji Water]

Shampoo Is Bettah!!!

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yes, there are some overzealous Caps/Ovechkin fans here. At the same time, there are some Pens/Malkin fans whose "Malkin has just as much potential as Ovechkin" posts originated at the exact moment when the Caps won the lottery.
In the days leading up to the lottery, it was clear that some Pens fans felt they held some divine right to draft #1, while most Caps fans felt their team had no chance in H-E-double hockey sticks. Now that it's turned out the opposite way, I say let Caps fans have their day. Anyone would be ecstatic to have the #1 this year.

Actually if you speed back to before the draft the Pens fans were not some johnney come latelies to the Malkin bandwagon, which is why finishing last was so important and why Pens fans, both on the boards and in the media here were collectively jumping of buildings when the Pens had that win streak. I can only speak for me but saw others as well, who saw it as AO, a drop but not a huge one then Malkin . . . then a cliff. We had a 50/50 shot at AO, a small drop if we lost, which is how it happened to turn out. I for one said as much before the draft, others did too, though of course not all Pen's fans felt that way then or do now, just a good number if not most. It is not revisionist history once the Caps won the draft as you are implying.

 

[Captain Conservative]

Actually if you speed back to before the draft the Pens fans were not some johnney come latelies to the Malkin bandwagon, which is why finishing last was so important and why Pens fans, both on the boards and in the media here were collectively jumping of buildings when the Pens had that win streak. I can only speak for me but saw others as well, who saw it as AO, a drop but not a huge one then Malkin . . . then a cliff. We had a 50/50 shot at AO, a small drop if we lost, which is how it happened to turn out. I for one said as much before the draft, others did too, though of course not all Pen's fans felt that way then or do now, just a good number if not most. It is not revisionist history once the Caps won the draft as you are implying.

He speaks the truth. I had the same motivation for the caps finishing last.

Can everyone stop this arguing now? If you want to compare styles, NHL players who they are similar to, thats great, but just stop this silly arguing. Its so damn annoying, both organizations are getting a franchise player. Feel sorry for Chicago, who isn't getting either of the clear prizes from this draft. AO is better and no sane penguins fan would ever dispute that fact. Malkin is a damn fine consolation prize though, and I've heard a lot of experts say he is better than anyone in the draft class of 2003.

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

Actually if you speed back to before the draft the Pens fans were not some johnney come latelies to the Malkin bandwagon, which is why finishing last was so important and why Pens fans, both on the boards and in the media here were collectively jumping of buildings when the Pens had that win streak. I can only speak for me but saw others as well, who saw it as AO, a drop but not a huge one then Malkin . . . then a cliff. We had a 50/50 shot at AO, a small drop if we lost, which is how it happened to turn out. I for one said as much before the draft, others did too, though of course not all Pen's fans felt that way then or do now, just a good number if not most. It is not revisionist history once the Caps won the draft as you are implying.

That's true, there were some that wanted only to at least get #2, but I know there were a few "AO Watch" type threads also. I also agree with Captain Conservative in that Chicago got hosed. The most surprising aspect of this whole thing for Caps fans is that the Caps actually had a bit of good luck. With the history of that franchise, I think most of us expected to move back, not up to #1.

 

[Kafka]

Other than Oveshkin and Malkin, how many players should have an impact in the NHL. I eard previously that there is about 8 other players.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

i am an unbiased leaf fan.

i'll make two points

1.) as of right now, ovechkin is the superior talent
2.) malkin will be the better player and i would take EM over AO

he is a year younger than AO. a full yaer of development can do wonders especially if the player works on his skills 40+ hours a week in that one year. eric fehr improved dramatically in one yaer and like someone said, heatley wasn't even a top 50 rated player when he was 17-18 but when he was drafted at 20 years old, he was a consensus top 1-2 pick (dipietro came out of nowhere). one year of developmnt is crucial. everyone likes to hype about AO but i remember two years ago when the underdog kovalchuk beat out the heavily hyped spezza for the #1 spot. malkin has outperformed ovechkin this year at the WJC's and has quite a bigger frame too. i wouldn't be surprised if he becomes the player down the road. one extra year of development + more nhl savvy skills + a bigger frame = better nhl product.

i want to add in some of my personal comments. ovechkin has 9 goals while malkin has only 3 (but more assists) because ovechkin is a sniper while malkin is a playmaker. at the nhl level, the playmaker always outperforms the sniper. you simply can't translate your junior A (or RSL) moves into the big show while the vision and playmaking asstes often do find traction in the NHL.

I wouldn't go as far as you do regarding Malkin . . . I do tire of some here seeming to feel the need to pull Malkin down to feel good about AO, I mean face it, AO seems to be a talent enough to not need to do that sort of bush league stuff, and a bit of 'grace' and 'sportsmanship' in winning (anywhere but in this case the lottery) would rub a bit better. On the same level, I feel no need to pull AO down to justify Malkin. My honest assesment, now and before the lottery, was and is that AO is an amazing talent, and amazingly when I was reading between the lines of various reports and quotes from respected scouts, in a year when a once every twenty years player comes along, another is fairly close to him. There was a cliff after those two from all that I read (though a handful of scouts liked a player or two and thought them to be close). After perhaps pick 6 or 7 another cliff and you could throw almost any of players 8 - maybe 45 in a hat almost and the difference would not be great, it is just that weak a draft by most estimates. Maybe that was the reason why Washington got all those late first round picks in trades, they are pretty much glorified lower seconds in most draft years.

As for the other point, I also thought that Malkin's position of center was a plus and that if things get close to equal between AO and Malkin, could make Malkin the better choice even if AO happens to score a bit more, definately the best choice for us. Sniper wings are rare but can be found, playmaking centers are pretty rare and make a whole team better. That said I am thrilled that the Pens are getting one of the two, I would have been very very happy with either, as I am sure the Caps fans are.

 

[Captain Conservative]

i am an unbiased leaf fan.

i'll make two points

1.) as of right now, ovechkin is the superior talent
2.) malkin will be the better player and i would take EM over AO

he is a year younger than AO. a full yaer of development can do wonders especially if the player works on his skills 40+ hours a week in that one year.

And we all know that development is guaranteed right?

 

[EroCaps]

i am an unbiased leaf fan.

i'll make two points

1.) as of right now, ovechkin is the superior talent
2.) malkin will be the better player and i would take EM over AO

he is a year younger than AO. a full yaer of development can do wonders especially if the player works on his skills 40+ hours a week in that one year. eric fehr improved dramatically in one yaer and like someone said, heatley wasn't even a top 50 rated player when he was 17-18 but when he was drafted at 20 years old, he was a consensus top 1-2 pick (dipietro came out of nowhere). one year of developmnt is crucial. everyone likes to hype about AO but i remember two years ago when the underdog kovalchuk beat out the heavily hyped spezza for the #1 spot. malkin has outperformed ovechkin this year at the WJC's and has quite a bigger frame too. i wouldn't be surprised if he becomes the player down the road. one extra year of development + more nhl savvy skills + a bigger frame = better nhl product.

i want to add in some of my personal comments. ovechkin has 9 goals while malkin has only 3 (but more assists) because ovechkin is a sniper while malkin is a playmaker. at the nhl level, the playmaker always outperforms the sniper. you simply can't translate your junior A (or RSL) moves into the big show while the vision and playmaking asstes often do find traction in the NHL.

Ovechkin is an all-around talent that had more assists than Malkin this season. He's playing for the Russian Men's team at Worlds, and is outscoring Kovalchuck, among others. What else can this kid do? He's broken records, outperformed men, been voted an all-star at 18 playing in the second-best hockey league this planet has to offer. He's risen to meet every challenge.

His worst WJC, he scored more goals (5) than Malkin at his best WJC. I've seen nothing from Malkin suggesting he's about to blossom into the explosive talent that Ovechkin is, nothing.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Ovechkin is an all-around talent that had more assists than Malkin this season. He's playing for the Russian Men's team at Worlds, and is outscoring Kovalchuck, among others. What else can this kid do? He's broken records, outperformed men, been voted an all-star at 18 playing in the second-best hockey league this planet has to offer. He's risen to meet every challenge.

His worst WJC, he scored more goals (5) than Malkin at his best WJC. I've seen nothing from Malkin suggesting he's about to blossom into the explosive talent that Ovechkin is, nothing.

You all make it very very hard to remain balanced in this, right when I am jumping in on AO's side in this thread, you all seem to want to tear Malkin down to lower than what he is. I could give a flying (fill in whatever you wish here) about your opinions, you (nor I) have never seen him play . . . oh wait, you all saw 2 or 3 ten second clips somewhere on both. Now you are an expert. Your opinion, or mine, means nothing at all my friend, but most scouts have said all year . . . it is AO . . . .Malkin . . .everyone else . . . and the gap between AO and Malkin is not the chasm that you all seem to be desperate to prove is there unless I have misread the scouting reports. There is a difference between the two but Malkin remains an elite prospect that has a chance of challenging to be what everyone is saying AO could be . . . sure he may not, AO may not, but I am allowed to be excited about what the scouts have said and trying to tear Malkin down is as bad as those saying that he is currently better than AO. Neither is true.

 

[Jacob]

Ovechkin is an all-around talent that had more assists than Malkin this season.

Not from a per game basis. If you're only going to use stats to back up your arguments, please don't skew them to support your point.

His worst WJC, he scored more goals (5) than Malkin at his best WJC.

Malkin is a playmaker, Ovechkin the goal scorer, can we agree on that? Therefore, it's hard to base performance in an international tournament just based on goals, or even points, for that matter. People that follow intl tournaments know that assists are awarded very cautiously, much unlike the NHL.

I've seen nothing from Malkin suggesting he's about to blossom into the explosive talent that Ovechkin is, nothing

You're missing the point. Some people are valuing that extra 10 months of development Ovechkin has had a lot. So it really doesn't matter what kind of stats you throw out there, some folks are going to continue to think that Malkin could be the better player.

Ero, you've made good points in the past, but you are acting now as if you've contracted Foppa-itis.

 

[EroCaps]

You all make it very very hard to remain balanced in this, right when I am jumping in on AO's side in this thread, you all seem to want to tear Malkin down to lower than what he is. I could give a flying (fill in whatever you wish here) about your opinions, you (nor I) have never seen him play . . . oh wait, you all saw 2 or 3 ten second clips somewhere on both. Now you are an expert. Your opinion, or mine, means nothing at all my friend, but most scouts have said all year . . . it is AO . . . .Malkin . . .everyone else . . . and the gap between AO and Malkin is not the chasm that you all seem to be desperate to prove is there unless I have misread the scouting reports. There is a difference between the two but Malkin remains an elite prospect that has a chance of challenging to be what everyone is saying AO could be . . . sure he may not, AO may not, but I am allowed to be excited about what the scouts have said and trying to tear Malkin down is as bad as those saying that he is currently better than AO. Neither is true.

Hey, I'm not trying to cut off Malkin at the knees to make Ovechkin taller. They'll both be great players, I just don't understand what it is when evaluating these guys second-hand that suggests Malkin has ever been or will ever be AO's equal.

It's like this, if a team had an explosive star winger, and needed a center, they'd take Malkin #1 overall. If not, they take the game breaker in AO. It's really not worth arguing over, it's so redundant.

 

[EroCaps]

How is stereotyping Ovechkin as a "goal scorer" not "skewing" the facts?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It's like this, if a team had an explosive star winger, and needed a center, they'd take Malkin #1 overall. If not, they take the game breaker in AO. It's really not worth arguing over, it's so redundant.

Actually to be fair . . . not yet . . . and that is the point . . . AO is much further along and has had that year and only gotten stronger . . .Malkin remains more potential that may or may not develope over the next year . . . regardless of position, I would take the one who is further along and not take the chance if choosing between the two, and that is AO

That is the difference . . .

But for you to say that someone might take Malkin over AO if thet had a star wing is nice hearing especially from a Cap fan, just can not see it happening

 

[Jacob]

How is stereotyping Ovechkin as a "goal scorer" not "skewing" the facts?

Because I didn't make a statement. I asked a question.

 

[MagnusJondus]

I love the fact that this thread just won't die. May this always be the meeting grounds for Ovechkin fan to come in from the sterile "Official Alexander Ovechkin" thread and make themselves feel better by tearing down Evgeny Malkin. Thank you. It is so entertaining.

 

[iagreewithidiots]

Does it matter?

Malkin has yet to outperform Ovechkin at any level.

You are dead right.

Alexander Daigle out preformed every player in his draft year. He has obviously been the best player taken.

Does it really matter what these two do if its not done in the NHL?

 

[Foppa_Rules]

What did Daigle do internationally?

 

[Jacob]

2 goals, 14 assists in 14 games, two gold medals in 93 and 95.

 

[Foppa_Rules]

In what tournament?

 

[Jacob]

WJCs

 

[Captain Conservative]

Just a guess, but I'd say the World Championships or exhibition games. You could always google it if you really wanted to know.

 

[Foppa_Rules]

Only two goals? Ovechkin had 6 goals as a 17-year old.