Is Kucherov the undisputed # 1 RW now?

[Voight]

Kuch only played 74 games last season. He was at a 94 point pace. While Kane had 89 in 82.

All due respect, but actual points have more bearing in this argument.

 

[Sky04]

1) you can not count
2) Laine 44 goals Kucherov 39 goals--so I have laine scoring more goals then kucherov---so that by itself allows the debate to rule out undisputed

30+ points >>>> 5 goals in more games, an insult to Kucherov to compare him to Laine.

 

[Jumptheshark]

30+ points >>>> 5 goals in more games, an insult to Kucherov to compare him to Laine.

Only to bolts fans.

 

[Regal]

Only to most logical fans.

Fixed

 

[DFC]

Kucherov produces with anybody. It's everybody else whose numbers go down when separated from him.

 

[Sky04]

Only to bolts fans.

Only to sane fans.

 

[Hughes86Hischier13]

stamkos was cold for awhile too or kuch would of put more points

 

[DFC]

stamkos was cold for awhile too or kuch would of put more points

That's more often the norm than not for those two. It's Kucherov who generates chances. Not all the time, but most of the time.

 

[Critical13]

The only reason I might not agree with this is that I am a firm believer that we too often ignore team variables when we compare players.

Kane has a supporting cast of Toews, Keith, Saad, DeBrincat. Kucherov has Point, Stamkos, Hedman, McDonagh, Johnson, and superior depth easily. I think Kuch has the much stronger supporting cast.

With that being said, I think they are #1 and #2, and on the same tier. Both players are top 10 in the league.

 

[DaJackal]

I'd say he is. Kane can rebound next season, but as of now Kuch is the man.

And people, please. I'm a big fan of Laine, but he just doesn't belong in this conversation. Yet. (And he's a natural LW although he plays RW currently.)

 

[The Big Unit]

No not undisputed #1. Kane had a good year while Kucherov had a great one and is definitely on the rise. Kane is 5 years older and has hardware.....a lot of it. While Kucherov is better "right now" that can change next season. IMO in order to be the undisputed #1 RW, Kucherov needs some trophies.

 

[Thenameless]

Yes. He has surpassed Kane this season clearly.

Yes.

 

[DRW204]

the last two seasons Kuch > Kane

Kane at his peak and prime years > Kuch so far

if it is a "current" question, i think Kuch is #1.

 

[Laineux]

the last two seasons Kuch > Kane

Kane at his peak and prime years > Kuch so far

if it is a "current" question, i think Kuch is #1.

I don't think Kane was ever better than Kucherov is now. Yes, he scored 106 points in a low scoring year, but that was an outlier year that was never going to be repeated.

 

[Sky04]

I don't think Kane was ever better than Kucherov is now. Yes, he scored 106 points in a low scoring year, but that was an outlier year that was never going to be repeated.

That 106 point year > Kucherov this year, and you say this like Kucherov has repeated 100 point seasons.. Kane followed a 1st place scoring finish with a 2nd place oneand you're talking about repetition

 

[DRW204]

I don't think Kane was ever better than Kucherov is now. Yes, he scored 106 points in a low scoring year, but that was an outlier year that was never going to be repeated.

Sure, let's ignore his peak season where he won the Ross/Lindsay/Hart lol . That is a better year than Kuch's current year. Let's see if Kuch can repeat 100 pt years then?

 

[Laineux]

That 106 point year > Kucherov this year, and you say this like Kucherov has repeated 100 point seasons.. Kane followed a 1st place scoring finish with a 2nd place oneand you're talking about repetition

It's one thing to have a better single season and another to be a better player IMO. Lots of things would indicate it was a wild puck luck year instead of Kane finding a new gear. Kuch has been one of the best offensive players for the past couple of years and is a proven playoff beast which is exactly what you could say of Kane at his best.

 

[daver]

It's one thing to have a better single season and another to be a better player IMO. Lots of things would indicate it was a wild puck luck year instead of Kane finding a new gear. Kuch has been one of the best offensive players for the past couple of years and is a proven playoff beast which is exactly what you could say of Kane at his best.

Who has the two best consecutive seasons?

Kane - 1st in points, 1st in PPG, and T2 in points, 5th in PPG

Kuch - 6th in points, 4th in PPG, and 3rd in points, T4 in PPG

It's debatable that Kucherov has had one season that was better than Kane's 2nd best.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Give me Kucherov.

 

[Regal]

Who has the two best consecutive seasons?

Kane - 1st in points, 1st in PPG, and T2 in points, 5th in PPG

Kuch - 6th in points, 4th in PPG, and 3rd in points, T4 in PPG

It's debatable that Kucherov has had one season that was better than Kane's 2nd best.

You missed his point. He said Kane had a "better" year at his peak. But based on the sustainability of his underlying numbers, he doesn't believe he was as good of a player as the numbers suggest, which I tend to agree with. Kane's seasons from '13 to last year outside of '15 are a better representation of his actual ability. Meanwhile, Kucherov's underlying numbers the past two years suggest this is his actual ability and not inflated numbers.

And while Kane's numbers those seasons outside of '15 and Kucherov's the past two years are similar, comparing scoring and PPG placements within the top 5 are flawed. The competition at the top changes a lot year to year and it's clear this year was an especially good year for top scorers.

I'm not sure if I'd fully agree with Kucherov being better than Kane ever was. As much as sustainability matters, it can be argued that players are also creating better opportunities in those years and those underlying numbers are as much a sign of playing "better" as getting lucky. Also, while Kucherov is a better all around player, I'm not sure if it's enough to be a significant factor, and Kane has also put up big numbers in years without much help from his linemates. It's definitely not an outrageous position though.

 

[Jumptheshark]

All due respect, but actual points have more bearing in this argument.

Only for those who put more importance on points than goals. The title of the thread us UNDISPUTED and if you only want to look at points and not goals and depth of the team then I can see where you could claim that. Jets do not have the depth of the Bolts and some could make the case out that the bolts player is helped by the fact that when they play teams--the opposition team needs to decide between Stam and Kuch as to who will be the primary target of the night for the top checkers with the other guy getting the second line checkers. With the jets, Laine gets the top checkers every game

 

[Jumptheshark]

BTW

for all the education Einsteins in this discussion

Have I out and out said that Laine is better--but tossed out a stat and some opinion that the topic is not UNDISPUTED

so nice so many people went right to insults and acting all hurt without actually thinking about the topic

If Kuch lead in every single stat then we could say undisputed-- but he doesn't and we ask is he helped by the depth the bolts have? Bolts have a pretty deep team and most post have made it clear that Stamkos and Kuch hardly ever play on the same line--same can not not be said about the jets top guys as Laine is on the ice with most of them at some point in time

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Weird year for Tarasenko. He's going to be determined to bounce back in a big way

Huge fan of the Stammer - Kuchy duo.

Looking forward to the Tavares - Senko duo next year

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Only for those who put more importance on points than goals. The title of the thread us UNDISPUTED and if you only want to look at points and not goals and depth of the team then I can see where you could claim that. Jets do not have the depth of the Bolts and some could make the case out that the bolts player is helped by the fact that when they play teams--the opposition team needs to decide between Stam and Kuch as to who will be the primary target of the night for the top checkers with the other guy getting the second line checkers. With the jets, Laine gets the top checkers every game

First of all, Stamkos and Kucherov are linemates

Second of all, don’t teams defending the jets have to choose between Laine and the Scheifele/Wheeler duo?

Third of all, does this mean Ovechkin is better than McDavid?

 

[DFC]

No not undisputed #1. Kane had a good year while Kucherov had a great one and is definitely on the rise. Kane is 5 years older and has hardware.....a lot of it. While Kucherov is better "right now" that can change next season. IMO in order to be the undisputed #1 RW, Kucherov needs some trophies.

I think it's easy to poke holes in that logic though. Is Kane #1 until another RW wins hardware? Because that could be a decade or more.

I think it's easy enough to say Kucherov is the best RW in the game right now because he's been #3 in scoring two years in a row, while also saying Kane is capable of reclaiming that title with a big year in 18/19. These things are always fluid.