Is it time to blow the team up and rebuild?

[rafalesque]

Roy is another hot head that I have no confidence in. He has a massive ego, probably worse than Bergevin.

Building a junior team is not at all the same thing as building an NHL team. Not even close. The amount of complexity in the NHL is not comparable to building a QMJHL team.

Pass on Roy.

ROY is the messiah to Montreal... no one will tell me otherwise. He is a GOD

 

[groovejuice]

Yes, ROY.... how do you get experience??? you will never get a job based on experience alone. especially if you have not. His junior team success is good enough as all have to go through previous level experience. Get the FRENCH guy in

Right. Because that should be the priority in hiding a GM. Language...

 

[OnceWasNot]

Hence my opinion is to trade Price to rebalance the team with more offense/defense skills with an above average goalie. That is what I have been saying all along.

TRADE PRICE

It's too late. Subban and Markov are gone. Plekanec and Gallagher have declined. Galchenyuk was mishandled and failed to pan out. We don't have the horses to compete even if we could somehow get a guy like Tavares without subtracting from the roster. The window has closed on this era and we need to rebuild.

 

[rafalesque]

Right. Because that should be the priority in hiding a GM. Language...

Its a prerequisite for that position in Montreal. Perhaps, one should try to work in Toronto without speaking english.... see what type of work you get.

 

[rafalesque]

It's too late. Subban and Markov are gone. Plekanec and Gallagher have declined. Galchenyuk was mishandled and failed to pan out. We don't have the horses to compete even if we could somehow get a guy like Tavares without subtracting from the roster. The window has closed on this era and we need to rebuild.

Tavares is a dream.... TRADE PRICE

 

[OnceWasNot]

Tavares is a dream.... TRADE PRICE

I'm all for trading Price and stripping this team to the bone for a rebuild. I just don't think anyone is willing to take on that monster contract.

 

[rafalesque]

I'm all for trading Price and stripping this team to the bone for a rebuild. I just don't think anyone is willing to take on that monster contract.

Lets put him in the window and see what will happen

 

[Leafsmann]

To trade price you have to take back a large enough goalie contract back.

Lundqvist, Bobrovsky, Rask and Rinne are the only 4 that are close enough to make up the difference.

Rinne would make the most sense for a trade.

 

[Vincent Lecavalier]

To trade price you have to take back a large enough goalie contract back.

Lundqvist, Bobrovsky, Rask and Rinne are the only 4 that are close enough to make up the difference.

Rinne would make the most sense for a trade.

The Predators have Saros coming up and Rinne contract ends in 2 years (?). It wouldn't help them at all to take on Price's.

Plus, Rinne's play has been without flaws recently.

 

[groovejuice]

Its a prerequisite for that position in Montreal. Perhaps, one should try to work in Toronto without speaking english.... see what type of work you get.

English is the language for hockey in every NHL city. Your argument is specious. And that prerequisite as you call it is a capitulation from a nebbish, impotent owner who is placating a handful of noisemakers.

Best person for the job. Period. I'd hope it will be a French speaker, but competence and winning should always supersede that.

 

[Roke]

The big problem with trading Price, even if you're entering a rebuild, is his contract extension eats up a tonne of the surplus value the acquiring team would be getting since he's signed to huge dollars well into his decline years.

I'm not sure you'd get much more than what Vancouver got for Luongo, who was signed through 39 (Beyond that are Robidas Island years on Luongo's contract) and for a much lower percentage of the cap than what Price will be at starting next year.

Price being younger and better than Luongo was when he was traded offsets that a bit and he has the big player reputation too but goalies tend to not be valuable trade pieces as it is.

 

[The Great Weal]

Retool is a better word imo. Trading Gallagher, Pacioretty, Petry...etc for prospects and picks while staying in the bottom of the league would get us back on track.

 

[Captain Mountain]

English is the language for hockey in every NHL city. Your argument is specious. And that prerequisite as you call it is a capitulation from a nebbish, impotent owner who is placating a handful of noisemakers.

Best person for the job. Period. I'd hope it will be a French speaker, but competence and winning should always supersede that.

And honestly, outside of hero worship, Roy isn't even the best bilingual choice. Just the most famous one.

 

[Habs]

GMs also get in trouble with temper, Bergevin was just as much of a "winner" as Roy (in management) and there are other bilingual options.

Being a "winner" isn't a qualification, and liking a winner is emotional, not practical.

Its a fine line, but that same spirit is what helped Shanny shape the Leafs, heading into a super draft year. I do not want MB, Timmins or any of these guys around if we finish bottom of the league this season. I do no twant their fingerprints on any part of a rebuild. If we have a shot at Dahlin, we make sure the tank is successful.

This is a good draft year top 20, time to seize the opportunity and make it happen. Maybe we disagree on Roy, but I hope we agree on a few other things that should be done this season.

 

[hockeyguru19]

I'm all for trading Price and stripping this team to the bone for a rebuild. I just don't think anyone is willing to take on that monster contract.

Teams that want to win would for sure want Price like Colorado,they want to be relevant again,you only trade Price if it is a complete rebuild......Price,Weber,Gallagher,Byron for Varlamov,Jost,Rantanen,Zadorov,and a 1st.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Its a fine line, but that same spirit is what helped Shanny shape the Leafs, heading into a super draft year. I do not want MB, Timmins or any of these guys around if we finish bottom of the league this season. I do no twant their fingerprints on any part of a rebuild. If we have a shot at Dahlin, we make sure the tank is successful.

This is a good draft year top 20, time to seize the opportunity and make it happen. Maybe we disagree on Roy, but I hope we agree on a few other things that should be done this season.

I love the Leafs example, because its a great one. First, Shanahan isn't the GM and he pointedly doesn't make hockey decisions. Second, when he came in, he:

1) Cleaned the front office, save for Nonis (get rid of Loiselle, Poulin, etc.);

2) Brought two highly regarded OHL GMs in Hunter (strong scouting and recruitment background) and Dubas (young, strong analytics and scouting background);

3) Brought in an expert capologist;

4) Built in-house sport science and and sport analytics departments;

5) Had the AGMs fill their departments and reign in Nonis while the sell-off began;

6) Canned the coaches and Nonis and brought in Babcock and Lou;

7) Made smart rebuilding decisions and sprinkled in a little luck; and

viola!

Shanahan's BIGGEST strength is that he's good at finding the right people for the job, getting them to join his team and letting them do their job. That is NOT what Roy has ever been, as either a coach or executive. He wouldn't take and NHL job without a big say in hockey ops as well. He was meddlesome in all aspects in Quebec. There is no reason to think Roy is a Shanahan for Montreal. Quintal as a president makes more sense in comparison, both are well connected, hands off and held the same job for the NHL.

 

[Habs]

I love the Leafs example, because its a great one. First, Shanahan isn't the GM and he pointedly doesn't make hockey decisions. Second, when he came in, he:

1) Cleaned the front office, save for Nonis (get rid of Loiselle, Poulin, etc.);

2) Brought two highly regarded OHL GMs in Hunter (strong scouting and recruitment background) and Dubas (young, strong analytics and scouting background);

3) Brought in an expert capologist;

4) Built in-house sport science and and sport analytics departments;

5) Had the AGMs fill their departments and reign in Nonis while the sell-off began;

6) Canned the coaches and Nonis and brought in Babcock and Lou;

7) Made smart rebuilding decisions and sprinkled in a little luck; and

viola!

Shanahan's BIGGEST strength is that he's good at finding the right people for the job, getting them to join his team and letting them do their job. That is NOT what Roy has ever been, as either a coach or executive. He wouldn't take and NHL job without a big say in hockey ops as well. He was meddlesome in all aspects in Quebec. There is no reason to think Roy is a Shanahan for Montreal. Quintal as a president makes more sense in comparison, both are well connected, hands off and held the same job for the NHL.

I said I would have Roy in management, not necessarily in the GM role. Advisor, assistant GM for a few years etc, could be a good scout in the Q. Also Quintal's IQ hovers around room temperature so I have little faith in him.

Also you give a lot of credit to Shanny for things he certainly listened to Lou on, he's not super bright to be honest, but he seems to be a good listener. I don't think you have to be bright to be a GM, I can look around the league and this team, and the data is there supporting that argument.

However I doubt it would happen anyways, I agree Montreal is scared of Roy.

 

[Harry22]

Its a prerequisite for that position in Montreal. Perhaps, one should try to work in Toronto without speaking english.... see what type of work you get.

With that mentality, Habs will never win. We're in 2017 not 1970. How many European soccer teams have coaches/managers that don't speak the language? I'll save you the research, it's a lot.

Also, no Roy is not a ''God'' in Montreal. He has a great career with the organization but that was 22 years ago, he also has NO experience as an NHL manager and shouldn't come near this franchise again.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I said I would have Roy in management, not necessarily in the GM role. Advisor, assistant GM for a few years etc, could be a good scout in the Q. Also Quintal's IQ hovers around room temperature so I have little faith in him.

I think you're missing my point. Roy likes control. Shanahan cedes control to competent people. Roy drives people away and meddles.

Also you give a lot of credit to Shanny for things he certainly listened to Lou on, he's not super bright to be honest, but he seems to be a good listener. I don't think you have to be bright to be a GM, I can look around the league and this team, and the data is there supporting that argument.

I definitely didn't. That's a timeline. Lou wasn't hired until a lot of the work was done and pretty much everyone else was in place.

However I doubt it would happen anyways, I agree Montreal is scared of Roy.

As they should be.

 

[V13]

Well it's been what 8 years later, obviously all those guys are gone now. That's not a negative, that's perfectly normal.

I know people have different opinions on the matter, but to me once the Gally's came on board and up until the Subban trade we were legit contenders. Before that it was hard to say due to Markov being injured all the time. With Markov injured we were a bubble team, with him healthy it could be argued we were contenders. But regardless I'm not sure a SC is the only measure of success. Washington has never made the SCF, yet they are considered contenders pretty much every year. Are they considered a success or a failure?


As for rebuilding it might have worked but it might not have. Personally I think that first ECF run had a huge impact on both Price and Subban. Would they have reached their full potential or would they have ended up as very good but not great players?

A SC may not be a full measure of success but it is the ultimate goal. Washington has a shitload of talent and yes they have been contenders for a few years now but with all the talent they have i cannot consider it a success if they don,t win a cup in that window. It's obviously not a complete failure but it won't be a complete success either. Same goes for San Jose in the last 5 years or so.

And the first ECF run was mostly all Halak. He was nuclear hot against the Caps and the Pens. But then the team folded badly against Philly. I think it was more of a case of overachieving riding the tail of a hot goalie than anything but some people may disagree with that which is fine.

In any case we are what we are now and should look forward to the future. Let,s just hope that the next GM will have a better vision than MB did

 

[rafalesque]

English is the language for hockey in every NHL city. Your argument is specious. And that prerequisite as you call it is a capitulation from a nebbish, impotent owner who is placating a handful of noisemakers.

Best person for the job. Period. I'd hope it will be a French speaker, but competence and winning should always supersede that.

You are all in Left field. The place of work in Montreal to address the fans has to be considered. in every positions in a job as I did the best who fit the prerequisite was hired. If I did not qualify to meet the requirements I would not get the job! period. French guy in.... I don't care if you disagree

 

[Lshap]

Its a prerequisite for that position in Montreal. Perhaps, one should try to work in Toronto without speaking english.... see what type of work you get.

English is a prerequisite for working in the NHL. Speaking french is not; it's a prerequisite only for communicating with fellow Quebecers. There is no part of any hockey-related job in the NHL that requires french. Its value -- and this entire debate -- depends on how important we feel it is for the GM to give interviews in french.

 

[rafalesque]

With that mentality, Habs will never win. We're in 2017 not 1970. How many European soccer teams have coaches/managers that don't speak the language? I'll save you the research, it's a lot.

Also, no Roy is not a ''God'' in Montreal. He has a great career with the organization but that was 22 years ago, he also has NO experience as an NHL manager and shouldn't come near this franchise again.

Please spare the personal opinions. He will come back and save the franchise " a la Trump fashion perhaps" but it will get done. give him the keys to manage the team. he has proven himself and takes no **** from anyone to build the way he believes it should be built

 

[Johnny31]

In a rebuild... I do not think that we can have a lot of values for Price and Weber because of their contracts situations but trade them anyway...

 

[rafalesque]

English is a prerequisite for working in the NHL. Speaking french is not; it's a prerequisite only for communicating with fellow Quebecers. There is no part of any hockey-related job in the NHL that requires french. Its value -- and this entire debate -- depends on how important we feel it is for the GM to give interviews in french.

I disagree. if you want to connect with the people in this particular market, you need to make an adjustment. heck, We have products thrown to us for the english market like eggnog but the locals would not buy, so they had to take what was particular for that market to make the sales rebound