Is it time to blow the team up and rebuild?

[Andrei79]

Really.... left being. how many times have we finished in 1st place the last 5 years. Analytics for sure..hahahaha

Seriously ?

Are we always going to have this debate ?

The team had terrible underlying numbers, they failed the eye test, they were carried by Carey Price who was amazing according to any metric, including watching the games. Look at the one season your GM had to manage without him, look at how awful he did.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Just provide the contrary to your argument. perhaps you should look at the movie " the curve ball" some go with guts and experience, not stats alone

No one said to go with stats alone. That has never been an argument. And that's not a contrary, its an incomplete anecdote.

 

[webersshot]

Well one things for sure, roy never would have let radulov go

 

[Price is Wright]

Roy is boom or bust. Either we win the Cup or the team gets so bad you just have to do a long term rebuild.

 

[groovejuice]

That is crap with the analytics! Talk to Dale Tallon in Florida. he has done a better job without the over studied data. They know what is required to win and uses those to make winner. Remember Roy's first year in Colorado?

your argument is the same as most on this board about Galchy. They all want Galchy on the first line just has not played to earn it. Is he talented, yes! does he work his #$% off no!
if you have a guy to go to = then use him to produce. simple

IMO it's foolish not to use all the tools at one's disposal. I can understand giving them different degrees of credibility, but certainly not dismissing them out of hand.

 

[Harry22]

Not Roy. WTF. Heh as no experience in managing an NHL team. Lets hire someone competent with damn experience.

 

[rafalesque]

In the league? Zero. In the conference? Zero. Same as the number of playoff series we've won in the last 3 years.

I guess beating up on bottom feeders and winning the weakest division in the NHL 60% of the time is the new measure of success for the Montreal Canadiens.

So finishing 103 and 110 points in the season is nothing, but perhaps the 84 points season was done on analytics

 

[rafalesque]

Not Roy. WTF. Heh as no experience in managing an NHL team. Lets hire someone competent with damn experience.

Yes, ROY.... how do you get experience??? you will never get a job based on experience alone. especially if you have not. His junior team success is good enough as all have to go through previous level experience. Get the FRENCH guy in

 

[OnceWasNot]

Roy is boom or bust. Either we win the Cup or the team gets so bad you just have to do a long term rebuild.

The team is already so bad that a long term rebuild is needed.

 

[rafalesque]

The team is already so bad that a long term rebuild is needed.

Ohhhh I thought you were talking about the coyotes...Phew

 

[rafalesque]

Seriously ?

Are we always going to have this debate ?

The team had terrible underlying numbers, they failed the eye test, they were carried by Carey Price who was amazing according to any metric, including watching the games. Look at the one season your GM had to manage without him, look at how awful he did.

 

[rafalesque]

You need to go back and check the stats over 100 points in the last 3 of 4 years.

 

[OnceWasNot]

So finishing 103 and 110 points in the season is nothing, but perhaps the 84 points season was done on analytics

If you rack up points against terrible Leafs teams during the regular season, then your weaknesses are exposed and you flame out of the playoffs without much of a fight, then yes, it was all for nothing.

 

[rafalesque]

If you rack up points against terrible Leafs teams during the regular season, then your weaknesses are exposed and you flame out of the playoffs without much of a fight, then yes, it was all for nothing.

Please provide supporting evidence. As I remember, we played all the teams not just the leafs or perhaps lets rearrange the schedule to play the Ducks, Predators, Hawks only... then we will be able to compare with analytics

 

[OnceWasNot]

Ohhhh I thought you were talking about the coyotes...Phew

Despite their record, the Coyotes actually have more talent on their roster than the Habs. We have the least skilled forwards and D in the league.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yes, ROY.... how do you get experience??? you will never get a job based on experience alone. especially if you have not. His junior team success is good enough as all have to go through previous level experience. Get the FRENCH guy in

So why Roy and not Serge Beausoleil or Trevor Georgie?

 

[rafalesque]

Despite their record, the Coyotes actually have more talent on their roster than the Habs. We have the least skilled forwards and D in the league.

Sure, but they finish last. too bad its the coaching/ management.
That tells you more about the quality management we have with less skilled players

 

[rafalesque]

So why Roy and not Serge Beausoleil or Trevor Georgie?

Beausoleil plays floor hockey. Trevor is in recruiting.
Seriously, who do you prefer out of the 3?

 

[OnceWasNot]

Please provide supporting evidence. As I remember, we played all the teams not just the leafs or perhaps lets rearrange the schedule to play the Ducks, Predators, Hawks only... then we will be able to compare with analytics

Both of those years the rebuilding Leafs gifted us 8 free points. Our record against playoff teams was not so great. And we won a grand total of one playoff series.

 

[rafalesque]

Both of those years the rebuilding Leafs gifted us 8 free points. Our record against playoff teams was not so great. And we won a grand total of one playoff series.

Ok, the be fair we need to remove all points earned by the other teams against the leafs.
Please provide the final stats for the season. then and only then, lets discuss..
might as well take all the teams that finished below the Habs so we have a losing record. if it makes you feel better.

for your info, the leafs finish 14th last year, the habs 8th. And you say we got FREE points. Man, if you talked about the Colorado that is a last place team and free points.

 

[OnceWasNot]

Ok, the be fair we need to remove all points earned by the other teams against the leafs.
Please provide the final stats for the season. then and only then, lets discuss..
might as well take all the teams that finished below the Habs so we have a losing record. if it makes you feel better

You miss the broader point. The Bergevin Habs, despite some high regular season finishes, were not built like a true cup contender. They were a below average offensive team that was overly reliant on goaltending and offense from the back end. They couldn't score against good opponents, which led to playoff failure. This was obvious to anyone who watched them or glanced at the underlying numbers.

Regular season success and playoff success are different beasts, which is why most of us balk at those who try to use the 100 point seasons to defend the state of the team.

 

[rafalesque]

You miss the broader point. The Bergevin Habs, despite some high regular season finishes, were not built like a true cup contender. They were a below average offensive team that was overly reliant on goaltending and offense from the back end. They couldn't score against good opponents, which led to playoff failure. This was obvious to anyone who watched them or glanced at the underlying numbers.

Regular season success and playoff success are different beasts, which is why most of us balk at those who try to use the 100 point seasons to defend the state of the team.

Hence my opinion is to trade Price to rebalance the team with more offense/defense skills with an above average goalie. That is what I have been saying all along.

TRADE PRICE

 

[Captain Mountain]

Beausoleil plays floor hockey. Trevor is in recruiting.
Seriously, who do you prefer out of the 3?

Trevor is President and GM of the Sea Dogs.

And I definitely choose none of the three. Gun to my head, Georgie.

 

[rafalesque]

Trevor is President and GM of the Sea Dogs.

And I definitely choose none of the three. Gun to my head, Georgie.

I prefer ROY

 

[Harry22]

Yes, ROY.... how do you get experience??? you will never get a job based on experience alone. especially if you have not. His junior team success is good enough as all have to go through previous level experience. Get the FRENCH guy in

Roy is another hot head that I have no confidence in. He has a massive ego, probably worse than Bergevin.

Building a junior team is not at all the same thing as building an NHL team. Not even close. The amount of complexity in the NHL is not comparable to building a QMJHL team.

Pass on Roy.