In Connie we Trust

[Double Dion]

Dion, I think you and some other peeps from here are giving up on Honzek prematurely but again he was a pick no 16, not top 10.

This is his sophomore season with the Vancouver Giant, once again, he suffered a long term injury at the start of the season which didn't result in a surgery (previous injury was slashed Achilles).

I think being a young skater from overseas- suffering yet another blow in your following year can weigh on you.

He has been voted the first foreign Captain in Vancouver Giant's history- this on it's own can affect your game...

So I would give him a pass for now and if he doesn't improve next season- we can revisit this discussion.

I said it at draft time. We should have been drafting a center. Oliver Moore was my pick, Ritchie or . A secondary thing we needed was a top pairing defenseman. I would have been fine with ASP. We were chasing size. That's why we drafted him. It was a mistake IMO. He was also one of the oldest players in the draft. The last thing we needed was another middle 6 wing. If he hits his potential that's what he'll be.

I wish him well, he sounds like a good kid. I just think it wasn't a position of need and it was a reach hoping he'd develop into a power forward. I think Heidt who went late 2nd round was pretty clearly the superior prospect to anyone who follows the WHL closely.

 

[joescores]

I said it at draft time. We should have been drafting a center. Oliver Moore was my pick, Ritchie or . A secondary thing we needed was a top pairing defenseman. I would have been fine with ASP. We were chasing size. That's why we drafted him. It was a mistake IMO. He was also one of the oldest players in the draft. The last thing we needed was another middle 6 wing. If he hits his potential that's what he'll be.

I wish him well, he sounds like a good kid. I just think it wasn't a position of need and it was a reach hoping he'd develop into a power forward. I think Heidt who went late 2nd round was pretty clearly the superior prospect to anyone who follows the WHL closely.

I can't disagree with you on the importance of drafting a center in 2023, but won't give up on Honzo yet. Plus when Backs/Coleman are at the end of their Flames adventures- this team will need leaders, so if Honzo ends up being a middle 6 wing but can provide with leadership and cabin voice- I am fine with that.

Let's hope we draft well in the next 2/3 years and rebuild well.

 

[Double Dion]

I can't disagree with you on the importance of drafting a center in 2023, but won't give up on Honzo yet. Plus when Backs/Coleman are at the end of their Flames adventures- this team will need leaders, so if Honzo ends up being a middle 6 wing but can provide with leadership and cabin voice- I am fine with that.

Let's hope we draft well in the next 2/3 years and rebuild well.

I don't want to overstate things and I do think he'll play. I just think you can find 3rd line wings everywhere and it's very hard to find centers. We aren't exactly a free agent destination.

 

[viper0220]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I won't be the least bit shocked if we flip the Vancouver 1st for a player, possibly defenceman at the draft.

What player are they going to flip that pick for? Unless it is Makar, McDavid or MacKinnon, the fate of this team is not going to change.

 

[InfinityIggy]

What player are they going to flip that pick for? Unless it is Makar, McDavid or MacKinnon, the fate of this team is not going to change.

You're replying as if I am the GM. I'm not stating it's what they *should* do. I'm just pointing out your assertion that management has signed off on a rebuild might be pre-mature.

 

[Bounces R Way]

What player are they going to flip that pick for? Unless it is Makar, McDavid or MacKinnon, the fate of this team is not going to change.

Damn why didn't Craig just trade for one of them? What an idiot!

 

[Yepthatsme]

I called this literally the day we drafted him. He’d have relatively flat stats this year, and half this board would be rushing to proclaim to call him a bad pick like theirs some award for saying it early. Want to know another name that had flat stats after his draft year? Leon Draisaitl. Another one? Tage Thompson. If you want to find more, just look at any large bodied, physically under developed forward that was drafted.

He is going to take a while. That was known when he was drafted. He is currently in the fight of his life against just basic biology. Getting a bad injury and some pretty terrible linemates in Vancouver isn’t helping either.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Draisaitl had 105 points in 64 games in his draft year then 53 in 32 the following year

Honzek had 56 in 43 draft year followed by 27 in 28.....

Granted, it could lingering effects of the injury but that's not flat, that's straight up regression from a purely points of view

 

[crackdown44]

I called this literally the day we drafted him. He’d have relatively flat stats this year, and half this board would be rushing to proclaim to call him a bad pick like theirs some award for saying it early. Want to know another name that had flat stats after his draft year? Leon Draisaitl. Another one? Tage Thompson. If you want to find more, just look at any large bodied, physically under developed forward that was drafted.

He is going to take a while. That was known when he was drafted. He is currently in the fight of his life against just basic biology. Getting a bad injury and some pretty terrible linemates in Vancouver isn’t helping either.

Listen I’ll be rooting for the kid but for every Leon Draisaitl or Tage Thompson there’s a dozen Mark Jankowskis or Michael McCarrons

Definitely too early to call this pick a bust but it’s quite understandable that the people that didn’t like it at the draft don’t like it now

 

[User1996]

Draisaitl had 105 points in 64 games in his draft year then 53 in 32 the following year

Honzek had 56 in 43 draft year followed by 27 in 28.....

Granted, it could lingering effects of the injury but that's not flat, that's straight up regression from a purely points of view

Wait until you hear about Morin’s drop in production

 

[viper0220]

You're replying as if I am the GM. I'm not stating it's what they *should* do. I'm just pointing out your assertion that management has signed off on a rebuild might be pre-mature.

I am not replying anything like that and I apologize if it sounded like that.

My opinion is that management sees the writing on the wall but the ownership does not.

Management has steered the ship towards a rebuild, it will take time for ownership to come to terms about this.

Damn why didn't Craig just trade for one of them? What an idiot!

What I meant by that is that those are the types of players that can right a ship and no way on gods green earth, do they become available(very rare), you only draft them at the top of the draft.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Listen I’ll be rooting for the kid but for every Leon Draisaitl or Tage Thompson there’s a dozen Mark Jankowskis or Michael McCarrons

Definitely too early to call this pick a bust but it’s quite understandable that the people that didn’t like it at the draft don’t like it now

I’ll admit I’m biased because I went through the exact same struggle. Graduated 6’3, 180. Next 3 years didn’t matter how much I hit the gym or ate everything just went to growing/developing. Every year of junior (not major junior), I seemed to remain the same while everyone surpassed me. Then my last year of eligibility my body flipped a switch, results were hilarious, and I took a massive leap in development.

Every prospect has question marks. For every Stankoven there is a Ho Sang too. Large bodied, physical under developed players usually take longer to develop and don’t usually boom year over year early. Fans just like to be able to look at numbers to make them feel better, same mentality has a lot of posters eating a lot of crow on Byfield currently when big players take longer, and I bet he’s just going to kelp getting better and better and better…

Going to do my least bold prediction ever, bet he disappoints next year too. He’s the kind of player we don’t know what we will have in him until 24. Also Jankowski is a lazy comparison. Honzek last year showed more offense than Jankowski ever had, and ignoring outliers was ranked pretty consistently around us in the mid teens/early 20s. Jankowski was a player playing high school hockey that grew something ridiculous like 8” in a draft year that a single scout fell in love with.

 

[crackdown44]

I’ll admit I’m biased because I went through the exact same struggle. Graduated 6’3, 180. Next 3 years didn’t matter how much I hit the gym or ate everything just went to growing/developing. Every year of junior (not major junior), I seemed to remain the same while everyone surpassed me. Then my last year of eligibility my body flipped a switch, results were hilarious, and I took a massive leap in development.

Every prospect has question marks. For every Stankoven there is a Ho Sang too. Large bodied, physical under developed players usually take longer to develop and don’t usually boom year over year early. Fans just like to be able to look at numbers to make them feel better, same mentality has a lot of posters eating a lot of crow on Byfield currently when big players take longer, and I bet he’s just going to kelp getting better and better and better…

Going to do my least bold prediction ever, bet he disappoints next year too. He’s the kind of player we don’t know what we will have in him until 24. Also Jankowski is a lazy comparison. Honzek last year showed more offense than Jankowski ever had, and ignoring outliers was ranked pretty consistently around us in the mid teens/early 20s. Jankowski was a player playing high school hockey that grew something ridiculous like 8” in a draft year that a single scout fell in love with.

I agree with everything you’re saying. Big guys do almost always take longer but I guess my counter would be that just because they’re big doesn’t mean they’ll get there. I’m not a scout and even if I was I haven’t watched enough of Honzek to say whether or not he has the right qualities to take the steps he needs to take. Not much I can do except trust the flames scouting staff

Side note I hate to be that guy who is like “I played so I know” but since you went there I will too. Jankowski is my go to lazy comparison because I was actually on his team with him at Stanstead the year he got drafted lmao

 

[Yepthatsme]

Draisaitl had 105 points in 64 games in his draft year then 53 in 32 the following year

Honzek had 56 in 43 draft year followed by 27 in 28.....

Granted, it could lingering effects of the injury but that's not flat, that's straight up regression from a purely points of view

Draisaitl also went from the 35-32 PA Raiders to the 50-13 Kelowna Rockets, where he was 1 of 4 players with a 1.25 P/GP or greater. Taken into context, his flat stats were a large regression. Moral of the story, expecting large year over year improvements from his archetype of prospect is going to result in disappointment.

 

[Lunatik]

Listen I’ll be rooting for the kid but for every Leon Draisaitl or Tage Thompson there’s a dozen Mark Jankowskis or Michael McCarrons

Definitely too early to call this pick a bust but it’s quite understandable that the people that didn’t like it at the draft don’t like it now

The irony of using Tage Thompson as an example. His stats in his draft+1 season were flat from his draft year, his AHL stats were unimpressive, and didn't show much until he exploded in his d+6 season. He's the definition of why you don't give up on a prospect.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Needs to be stressed that the Vancouver Giants are awful. They've somehow clinched a playoff spot with a -30 goal differential. They've scored the 6th fewest goals in the WHL.

Couple playing on a team like that coming off a serious injury I give Honzek mostly a pass for this season. I say that as someone who wasn't a big fan of that pick, wanted Musty, Ritchie, or Barlow. We'll see if he can elevate in the playoffs but I don't see that team going deep. Lipinski always stands out positively whenever I take the time to watch one of their games. Like has been stated physically gifted guys that need to put some weight on take longer, but I very much doubt we're looking at the next Draisaitl here. For me he looks like he has Val Nichushkin upside that hopefully doesn't take as long to surface.

 

[Mobiandi]

Joe Colborne

 

[Bounces R Way]

Joe Colborne

Y'know for as much shit as Joe caught on this forum, he had a better single season with the Flames than golden boy Bennett ever did. Credited with more hits per game too. In fact Sam has only eclipsed Colborne's career high in points once, the year the Panthers scored 337 goals.

What I meant by that is that those are the types of players that can right a ship and no way on gods green earth, do they become available(very rare), you only draft them at the top of the draft.

Franchise players are definitely most often found at the top of the draft yes but not exclusively. I doubt we can get into the top 5 this year, next season might be our best bet if some of these shitty franchises get their asses in gear and stop being total catastrophes. The next 2 or 3 drafts will define the Flames for a very long time. I hope Conroy has permission to beef up the scouting staff because they need to hit big on at least three or four picks.

 

[Anglesmith]

You’re right about not having a Heiskanen. We also don’t have a Robertson or a Hintz and Markstrom is significantly older than Oettinger.

I think you could compare Huberdeau and Kadri to like Benn and Seguin as the vets but we don’t have anywhere near the young talent that they do. There’s no one in this system that projects as well as Johnson or Stankoven, not to mention they have younger guys already producing at elite levels like Robertson and Hintz

Unless you’re expecting Zary/Pelletier/Coronato to become PPG impact NHLers over the next couple of years then this team is a far cry from the Stars without the addition of some impact talent

That is what I'm saying, though. Like, what exactly was Robertson doing significantly better than the likes of Zary/Coronato/Pelletier in the years prior to his rookie season?

The Stars didn't tank and pick these guys at the top of the first round. They aren't where they are because they got "sure thing" prospects. Robertson/Hintz/Johnston/Stankoven didn't project to be Robertson/Hintz/Johnston/Stankoven.

Obviously if you predict a prospect to be a 100-point player one day, you're going to be wrong more often than you are right. I'm not saying Zary/Coronato/Pelletier are definitely going to be Hintz, Robertson and Johnston, but I am saying that that trio came from the exact same profile of prospect that we have in our organization, so to pretend that it is not a possible template is just blindness.

 

[DFF]

That is what I'm saying, though. Like, what exactly was Robertson doing significantly better than the likes of Zary/Coronato/Pelletier in the years prior to his rookie season?

The Stars didn't tank and pick these guys at the top of the first round. They aren't where they are because they got "sure thing" prospects. Robertson/Hintz/Johnston/Stankoven didn't project to be Robertson/Hintz/Johnston/Stankoven.

Obviously if you predict a prospect to be a 100-point player one day, you're going to be wrong more often than you are right. I'm not saying Zary/Coronato/Pelletier are definitely going to be Hintz, Robertson and Johnston, but I am saying that that trio came from the exact same profile of prospect that we have in our organization, so to pretend that it is not a possible template is just blindness.

Well, look like the Stars know what they doing.

Are you saying they just accidentally lucked out on those guys? Because they were no better than Zary and companies?