In Connie we Trust

[Double Dion]

This deadline was a failure. I said I'd judge it when it was over. Not because of the weak returns for Hanifin and Tanev. That was market related. Conroy can't do anything about that. The failure was him being unable to convince Norman to move out Markstrom or Kadri. Same failure Brad had. We will never win anything with Norman as our owner. Any of us here could have traded the UFAs, that was an obvious thing to do. Everyone not named Backlund, Coleman, Weegar or Andersson over 26 years of age should have been available. Especially Kadri. The Sharks managed to unload Hertl for assets.

 

[Lunatik]

This deadline was a failure. I said I'd judge it when it was over. Not because of the weak returns for Hanifin and Tanev. That was market related. Conroy can't do anything about that. The failure was him being unable to convince Norman to move out Markstrom or Kadri. Same failure Brad had. We will never win anything with Norman as our owner. Any of us here could have traded the UFAs, that was an obvious thing to do. Everyone not named Backlund, Coleman, Weegar or Andersson over 26 years of age should have been available. Especially Kadri. The Sharks managed to unload Hertl for assets.

It's a failure because your idea is to intentionally tank and sell anyone with value? What a terrible post.

 

[viper0220]

The returns Conroy got for Lindholm and Toffoli are very overrated by a lot of you guys.

Maybe he could have gotten more or maybe not but the main thing that Conroy has done is that he has convinced this ownership to do a rebuild, that is a huge win in itself.

 

[Rubi]

The facts are that any older players that are tradeable will garner late 1st round, late 2nd round, or late 3rd round picks because the teams that are interested in those players are cup contenders who will finish high up in the standings... and our chances of getting an elite player through those draft picks are somewhere between slim and none. Our only chance of getting an elite player is through our own first round pick in the draft... and in order to get that elite player we have to finish at or near the bottom of the standings and the best way to do that is to shed our older better players. Sorry but I just don't see any other way to do it.

 

[Yepthatsme]

The facts are that any older players that are tradeable will garner late 1st round, late 2nd round, or late 3rd round picks because the teams that are interested in those players are cup contenders who will finish high up in the standings... and our chances of getting an elite player through those draft picks are somewhere between slim and none. Our only chance of getting an elite player is through our own first round pick in the draft... and in order to get that elite player we have to finish at or near the bottom of the standings and the best way to do that is to shed our older better players. Sorry but I just don't see any other way to do it.

The same way Vancouver got Miller, Boston got Pastrnak, Dallas got Robertson, Rangers got Panarin, Carolina got Aho.

5 of the 8 top teams got their leading scorers through other methods than just drafting high.

 

[Anglesmith]

The same way Vancouver got Miller, Boston got Pastrnak, Dallas got Robertson, Rangers got Panarin, Carolina got Aho.

5 of the 8 top teams got their leading scorers through other methods than just drafting high.

Who cares about the teams that are actually successful? We want to be a team that projects to be successful one day. The goal is to be able to write out lineups full of guys picked in the top 3 and talk about how dominant they're going to be in a year or two. That's the real prize.

The Flames are very comparable to the Dallas Stars. They are a year or so away from the kind of team that we beat in the playoffs in 2022. I don't think we have a Heiskanen, but overall composition is similar with the vets who used to be top players turning into support for an emerging young nucleus of picks that turned out.

 

[DomBarr]

Maybe he could have gotten more or maybe not but the main thing that Conroy has done is that he has convinced this ownership to do a rebuild, that is a huge win in itself.

He hasn't otherwise Markstrom would have been traded, ownership was already on board with NOT letting high end UFA's walk for free because of Gaudreau, Markstrom was the true test if they supported a retool/build or not.

I think the trades he made were market value, just because we were wanting more I think the correct move was to avoid taking bad cap hits with term still back just to get that 1st Rd pick. Assuming they do not go crazy overpaying for UFAs (I actually want them to NOT sign anyone via UFA), they can then weaponize the cap space to rescue the cap teams similar to what Vancouver did to get Millar or accumulate more picks for taking back serviceable high cap minimal term contracts for futures

 

[DFF]

The same way Vancouver got Miller, Boston got Pastrnak, Dallas got Robertson, Rangers got Panarin, Carolina got Aho.

5 of the 8 top teams got their leading scorers through other methods than just drafting high.

Like the flames got Kadri and Huberdeau?

You can luck out once in a while but you need more than one piece, where do you think Vancouver got Petterson and Quinn Huges? Where did Dallas get Heskinen? Corolina with Svesh?

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Shitty deadline to have to sell, judging by the prices. In hindsight I feel better about the Toffoli/Zadorov moves, especially without retention.

Lindy feels even better now. Hunter is probably one of the better, if not the best prospects moved this deadline. We just don't see those truly blue chip prospects move much anymore.

 

[crackdown44]

Who cares about the teams that are actually successful? We want to be a team that projects to be successful one day. The goal is to be able to write out lineups full of guys picked in the top 3 and talk about how dominant they're going to be in a year or two. That's the real prize.

The Flames are very comparable to the Dallas Stars. They are a year or so away from the kind of team that we beat in the playoffs in 2022. I don't think we have a Heiskanen, but overall composition is similar with the vets who used to be top players turning into support for an emerging young nucleus of picks that turned out.

You’re right about not having a Heiskanen. We also don’t have a Robertson or a Hintz and Markstrom is significantly older than Oettinger.

I think you could compare Huberdeau and Kadri to like Benn and Seguin as the vets but we don’t have anywhere near the young talent that they do. There’s no one in this system that projects as well as Johnson or Stankoven, not to mention they have younger guys already producing at elite levels like Robertson and Hintz

Unless you’re expecting Zary/Pelletier/Coronato to become PPG impact NHLers over the next couple of years then this team is a far cry from the Stars without the addition of some impact talent

 

[Double Dion]

You’re right about not having a Heiskanen. We also don’t have a Robertson or a Hintz and Markstrom is significantly older than Oettinger.

I think you could compare Huberdeau and Kadri to like Benn and Seguin as the vets but we don’t have anywhere near the young talent that they do. There’s no one in this system that projects as well as Johnson or Stankoven, not to mention they have younger guys already producing at elite levels like Robertson and Hintz

Unless you’re expecting Zary/Pelletier/Coronato to become PPG impact NHLers over the next couple of years then this team is a far cry from the Stars without the addition of some impact talent

This is a good post. I think we have one potentially elite prospect in Wolf and it's at the most volatile position with the least amount of surety. We have some quality vets to show the way in Backlund, Coleman, Andersson and Weegar. I don't see another future core piece besides potentially Wolf. Zary has had a great season and could possibly exceed my expectations. Coronato could end up as a top 6 complimentary piece. Andersson is young enough to be in your top 4 on the other side of this. But where is the top defenseman? We have no top 9 Cs 3 years from now unless you think 37 year old Kadri will be one. These aren't easy pieces to get.

You don't have to draft in the top 5 to get them, but you can't make dumb picks like the Honzek one in the first round. One of the few things this organization has done well is hit on later round picks. Our area scouts are a top 5 group. But you can't take a likely 3rd line winger with a top 16 pick.

 

[Backlund]

Who cares about the teams that are actually successful? We want to be a team that projects to be successful one day. The goal is to be able to write out lineups full of guys picked in the top 3 and talk about how dominant they're going to be in a year or two. That's the real prize.

The Flames are very comparable to the Dallas Stars. They are a year or so away from the kind of team that we beat in the playoffs in 2022. I don't think we have a Heiskanen, but overall composition is similar with the vets who used to be top players turning into support for an emerging young nucleus of picks that turned out.

If you want to talk about teams that are actually successful why don't you pick the ones that have actually won?

Vegas - Jack Eichel & Alex Pietrangelo
Colorado - Nathan MacKinnon, Cale Makar & Gabriel Landeskog
Tampa Bay x2 - Victor Hedman & Steven Stamkos
St. Louis - Alex Pietrangelo
Washington - Alex Ovechkin & Nicklas Backstrom
Pittsburgh - Sidney Crosby & Evgeni Malkin

Not every team who picks in the top 3 wins a cup but nobody wins a cup without a top 3 pick. Acting like this team will be able to win without the elite talent you pick at those spots is delusional.

 

[DomBarr]

This is a good post. I think we have one potentially elite prospect in Wolf and it's at the most volatile position with the least amount of surety. We have some quality vets to show the way in Backlund, Coleman, Andersson and Weegar. I don't see another future core piece besides potentially Wolf. Zary has had a great season and could possibly exceed my expectations. Coronato could end up as a top 6 complimentary piece. Andersson is young enough to be in your top 4 on the other side of this. But where is the top defenseman? We have no top 9 Cs 3 years from now unless you think 37 year old Kadri will be one. These aren't easy pieces to get.

You don't have to draft in the top 5 to get them, but you can't make dumb picks like the Honzek one in the first round. One of the few things this organization has done well is hit on later round picks. Our area scouts are a top 5 group. But you can't take a likely 3rd line winger with a top 16 pick.

Honzek wasn't a dumb pick just a safe one, he went in and around where he was expected to go. That is the Flames way to pick the safest 1st round players

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Didn't we miss out on MacKinnon by 1 point?
Yup, those super important wins late in the season when we aren't making the playoffs are super important.

 

[Double Dion]

Honzek wasn't a dumb pick just a safe one, he went in and around where he was expected to go. That is the Flames way to pick the safest 1st round players

It was a dumb pick. If you watch WHL hockey there was a better player who went at the end of the 2nd round. I said it at the time and it only looks dumber now. Honzek was projected at the end of the 1st, not in the first half of it and even that was too high.

 

[tmurfin]

Jury is still out for me. I’m not even cautiously optimistic. It’s concerning that he tried his hardest to sign every guy he just traded away, which would have really handcuffed this team to mediocrity going forward. I have a hard time praising him for something he was forced to do.

It’s like praising a guy for not taking a steaming pile of shit on your kitchen floor, but when you walked in the room, you caught him pants down, newspaper in hand. He wanted to drop that steamer, bad.

 

[viper0220]

This deadline was a failure. I said I'd judge it when it was over. Not because of the weak returns for Hanifin and Tanev. That was market related. Conroy can't do anything about that. The failure was him being unable to convince Norman to move out Markstrom or Kadri. Same failure Brad had. We will never win anything with Norman as our owner. Any of us here could have traded the UFAs, that was an obvious thing to do. Everyone not named Backlund, Coleman, Weegar or Andersson over 26 years of age should have been available. Especially Kadri. The Sharks managed to unload Hertl for assets.

Who is to

He hasn't otherwise Markstrom would have been traded, ownership was already on board with NOT letting high end UFA's walk for free because of Gaudreau, Markstrom was the true test if they supported a retool/build or not.

I think the trades he made were market value, just because we were wanting more I think the correct move was to avoid taking bad cap hits with term still back just to get that 1st Rd pick. Assuming they do not go crazy overpaying for UFAs (I actually want them to NOT sign anyone via UFA), they can then weaponize the cap space to rescue the cap teams similar to what Vancouver did to get Millar or accumulate more picks for taking back serviceable high cap minimal term contracts for futures

Markstrom is gone in the off-season, if there was not a rebuild, than we would have the UFA's signed to long term contracts.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Jury is still out for me. I’m not even cautiously optimistic. It’s concerning that he tried his hardest to sign every guy he just traded away, which would have really handcuffed this team to mediocrity going forward. I have a hard time praising him for something he was forced to do.

It’s like praising a guy for not taking a steaming pile of shit on your kitchen floor, but when you walked in the room, you caught him pants down, newspaper in hand. He wanted to drop that steamer, bad.

Bad image man, LOL!

 

[Double Dion]

Jury is still out for me. I’m not even cautiously optimistic. It’s concerning that he tried his hardest to sign every guy he just traded away, which would have really handcuffed this team to mediocrity going forward. I have a hard time praising him for something he was forced to do.

It’s like praising a guy for not taking a steaming pile of shit on your kitchen floor, but when you walked in the room, you caught him pants down, newspaper in hand. He wanted to drop that steamer, bad.

I think the issue with our GMs is the same as it's always been. They answer to an owner. That owner's top priority is gate revenue not winning a cup. I don't blame Conroy, just like I didn't blame Treliving. The only mistake I blame Conroy for was the Honzek pick. The rest (trying to sign all the UFAs) not moving any of the guys with term who have had good seasons ect. is pure Norman.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Didn't we miss out on MacKinnon by 1 point?
Yup, those super important wins late in the season when we aren't making the playoffs are super important.

It was 3 points but a false equivalency given the shortened season and the Avs won the lottery to get there.

 

[thaman8765678]

Jury is still out for me. I’m not even cautiously optimistic. It’s concerning that he tried his hardest to sign every guy he just traded away, which would have really handcuffed this team to mediocrity going forward. I have a hard time praising him for something he was forced to do.

It’s like praising a guy for not taking a steaming pile of shit on your kitchen floor, but when you walked in the room, you caught him pants down, newspaper in hand. He wanted to drop that steamer, bad.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Hanifin I can understand, but no idea why we were trying so hard to sigh the other 2.

I don't think there is a long term plan. Would anyone really be surprised if we overpaid for Chandler Stephenson and then traded both 1sts for Zegras in the off season?

 

[InfinityIggy]

Maybe he could have gotten more or maybe not but the main thing that Conroy has done is that he has convinced this ownership to do a rebuild, that is a huge win in itself.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I won't be the least bit shocked if we flip the Vancouver 1st for a player, possibly defenceman at the draft.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Yeah, I don't get it either. Hanifin I can understand, but no idea why we were trying so hard to sigh the other 2.

I don't think there is a long term plan. Would anyone really be surprised if we overpaid for Chandler Stephenson and then traded both 1sts for Zegras in the off season?

I would almost be willing to bet my life savings we sign a rock solid ~4 in the offseason, and pending if our d core continues to play like it currently maybe another one for the bottom pair as well.

 

[crackdown44]

Tbh if there’s a message from ownership to be as competitive as possible every year then it’s literally Conroy’s job to trade a pick or go out and sign a 30 year old in free agency if it makes the team better in the short term

Typically a proper rebuild is preceded with a message from ownership to the fans that it’s going to happen asking for patience etc. We’ve only heard retool here. I’m not even sure if that’s what it’ll be, so far given the efforts to sign guys it just looks like they don’t want to look dumb losing guys for nothing in free agency

If things get wonky in the summer I wouldn’t even blame Conroy tbh, he’d just be doing his job. For now I’ll try and remain optimistic that they do the right thing

 

[joescores]

This is a good post. I think we have one potentially elite prospect in Wolf and it's at the most volatile position with the least amount of surety. We have some quality vets to show the way in Backlund, Coleman, Andersson and Weegar. I don't see another future core piece besides potentially Wolf. Zary has had a great season and could possibly exceed my expectations. Coronato could end up as a top 6 complimentary piece. Andersson is young enough to be in your top 4 on the other side of this. But where is the top defenseman? We have no top 9 Cs 3 years from now unless you think 37 year old Kadri will be one. These aren't easy pieces to get.

You don't have to draft in the top 5 to get them, but you can't make dumb picks like the Honzek one in the first round. One of the few things this organization has done well is hit on later round picks. Our area scouts are a top 5 group. But you can't take a likely 3rd line winger with a top 16 pick.

Dion, I think you and some other peeps from here are giving up on Honzek prematurely but again he was a pick no 16, not top 10.

This is his sophomore season with the Vancouver Giant, once again, he suffered a long term injury at the start of the season which didn't result in a surgery (previous injury was slashed Achilles).

I think being a young skater from overseas- suffering yet another blow in your following year can weigh on you.

He has been voted the first foreign Captain in Vancouver Giant's history- this on it's own can affect your game...

So I would give him a pass for now and if he doesn't improve next season- we can revisit this discussion.