IIHF World Championships - Division IIIB

[Albatros]

DPRK up 2:1 after 1st in the "final" against Bosnia, the better team too but unable to pull away so far. With this score Hong Kong would actually finish second which would be a very good result for them despite non-promotion.

Iran relegated for now, although it's unclear whether Singapore will be allowed to return next year. The Philippines comfortably mediocre in the middle.

 

[Albatros]

Bosnia turning it around with a strong second period and are now up 3:2, heading towards promotion. One more period to go:

 

[aquaregia]

4-2 after the Koreans blow a breakaway chance shorthanded and Denny Miskic comes straight back the other way - feels so encapsulating of the way the tournament has gone so far with regards to DPRK on defence...

 

[Albatros]

DPRK with a lot of individual skill for this level, a bit bad puck luck and Bosnia playing with plenty of spirit at home. But the DPRK defense does look like they only practice against one another or much weaker opponents back home and at this level it's then just outscore or bust with no defensive structure in sight to contain opponents.

 

[aquaregia]

And they hold on! great moment for Bosnian hockey to take gold in front of a home crowd, DPRK I guess still with some rust to shake off but I agree they weren't bad and should look to go up this time next year

 

[FrHockeyFan]

Congrats to BIH! Didn't expect at all DPRK not to finish on top.

 

[MeHateHe]

I've often wondered if hockey's progression model was the best, as opposed to FIFA or FIBA's (for example) regional qualification model. Is it better for the sport that one of the top 8 would never play against a team like Bosnia, for example? Faroe Islands gets to play against England once in a while; does that bolster their football or not?

I'm just noting this as I watch the Bosnian crowd and team go nuts over winning the tournament. Earning promotion is great! Winning a tournament is the best! But on the other hand, they essentially have been crowned 40th best for the year. As an athlete, I wanted to test myself against the best, so from that sense, I might regret not being able to face off against a top team.

Purely philosophical. Pardon me. Congratulations Bosnia!

 

[aquaregia]

l0l at the announcer referring to DPRK's Hong Chun-Rim as 'Mr. Park'

 

[aquaregia]

I've often wondered if hockey's progression model was the best, as opposed to FIFA or FIBA's (for example) regional qualification model. Is it better for the sport that one of the top 8 would never play against a team like Bosnia, for example? Faroe Islands gets to play against England once in a while; does that bolster their football or not?

I'm just noting this as I watch the Bosnian crowd and team go nuts over winning the tournament. Earning promotion is great! Winning a tournament is the best! But on the other hand, they essentially have been crowned 40th best for the year. As an athlete, I wanted to test myself against the best, so from that sense, I might regret not being able to face off against a top team.

Purely philosophical. Pardon me. Congratulations Bosnia!

The ability gap between 1st in the world and 100th in international football is probably comparable to the gap between 1st and 20th in ice hockey [if anything the latter may still be wider!]; and basketball whilst not being quite as 'worldwide' a sport has still much more parity comparitively.

These tournaments work well imo, comparable to the Nations Leagues that UEFA and CONCACAF run, especially when each country's hockey program has fewer near neighbours in terms of talent and tradition to work with.

 

[Albatros]

I've often wondered if hockey's progression model was the best, as opposed to FIFA or FIBA's (for example) regional qualification model. Is it better for the sport that one of the top 8 would never play against a team like Bosnia, for example? Faroe Islands gets to play against England once in a while; does that bolster their football or not?

I'm just noting this as I watch the Bosnian crowd and team go nuts over winning the tournament. Earning promotion is great! Winning a tournament is the best! But on the other hand, they essentially have been crowned 40th best for the year. As an athlete, I wanted to test myself against the best, so from that sense, I might regret not being able to face off against a top team.

Purely philosophical. Pardon me. Congratulations Bosnia!

Even at this tournament differences in skill level between some teams were quite large, having Bosnia play Slovenia or Serbia, DPRK play Korea or Japan would be an unwarranted bloodbath if it was to replace the current system altogether. In European soccer they recently introduced the Nations League which somewhat resembles the IIHF format.

 

[FrHockeyFan]

The IIHF published its wrap-up article, stating Iran is going down.

https://www.iihf.com/en/events/2024/wmiiib/news/58854/bosnia_moves_on_up

 

[Albatros]

It remains to be seen how fast the IIHF wants to move, Ireland participated in three more World Championships before they were excluded from IIHF competitions after the Dundalk Ice Dome had been closed. But that was more than a decade ago and in some ways Singapore has a worse starting position.

 

[FrHockeyFan]

The IIHF did actually move quickly back then. The Minimum Participation Standards were voted in Congress in 2012 and introduced in the Statutes & Bylaws the following year, making them applicable from the 2014 WC cycle onwards. All three of Greece, Ireland and Mongolia dropped out immediately due to the lack of infrastructure.

End of the line for Greek hockey? - Eurohockey.com

It is since the first case of a participating country failing to fulfil those standards which should therefore force them to drop out for the 2025 cycle.

While dramatic, it could be a blessing in disguise for next year as the AWG in Harbin, China are on in the first half of February and ice hockey is back for the SEA games scheduled in Bangkok, Thailand in December 2025. I would suspect those regional events would be more helpful than a WC Division IIIB to push for the installation of a new rink somewhere (I don't expect a new facility just for that purpose as real estate must be a premium there).

 

[Albatros]

Before the Minimum Participation Standards were a part of the IIHF Sport Regulations and included the rink requirement, but at that point emphasis was added on that the facilities had to be of permanent nature and located within the country.

It's safe to say that a number of currently active associations haven't at all times complied with all requirements, but it's of course somewhat easier to operate phantom teams or players than rinks (even if the permanent rink with permanent seating has at times really been an inflatable tent with makeshift stands).

 

[alko]

There is potential in DPR Korea. If they could play in some quality leagues, they could surprise us.

 

[SoundAndFury]

There is potential in DPR Korea. If they could play in some quality leagues, they could surprise us.

Really? A team which has never finished in the top half of D2B could surprise us? Last time they played the hoxkey juggernaut that is Spain they lost 15-1. What "quality leagues" need players like that?

Seriously, sometimes people just say ridiculous stuff.

 

[Bijelo]

Bosnian fans are happy now.

 

[Albatros]

Really? A team which has never finished in the top half of D2B could surprise us? Last time they played the hoxkey juggernaut that is Spain they lost 15-1. What "quality leagues" need players like that?

Seriously, sometimes people just say ridiculous stuff.

They do have some raw talent, relative to domestic Chinese players they look better in some regards even if the team is not very good. The question is how that could be developed further, joining the Asia League with a North Korean team is not at all realistic, maybe a VHL team based somewhere in Russia would be less implausible if the resources were there (which they are not).

 

[SoundAndFury]

maybe a VHL team based somewhere in Russia would be less implausible if the resources were there (which they are not).

Some VHL teams would crush North Koreans by 50 goals if they wanted to, what are we talking about here.... I understand that people get excited by these pipe dreams about "raw talent" and "growing hockey" but let's keep at least traces of sanity in those...

 

[Albatros]

Some VHL teams would crush North Koreans by 50 goals if they wanted to, what are we talking about here.... I understand that people get excited by these pipe dreams about "raw talent" and "growing hockey" but there let's keep at least traces of sanity in those...

Sure they would be the worst team in the league, a couple of years ago we still had three Chinese teams bolstered with foreign legionnaires there and they were all below average. But the question is how to establish something better than an annual months-long training camp without challenging opponents. Then you have to look at the neighbors, and Russia is the only one that could actually integrate a North Korean team.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Sure they would be the worst team in the league, a couple of years ago we still had three Chinese teams bolstered with foreign legionnaires there and they were all below average.

That is again, a gross understatement. Those Chinese teams were all Russian other than the most meaningless positions. The positives such teams bring to the local hockey is.. debatable at best. Another question, is Korea even willing or or able to attract all foreign roster.

 

[Albatros]

That is again, a gross understatement. Those Chinese teams were all Russian other than the most meaningless positions. The positives such teams bring to the local hockey is.. debatable at best. Another question, is Korea even willing or or able to attract all foreign roster.

The point is not to have a competitive VHL hockey team, but to have competitive hockey as that is lacking now. Playing and losing is ultimately better than not playing. Whether there would be such a Korean team in the VHL would be a mostly political decision. Until the early 1990s they used to play against Soviet second league teams fairly often and in part as a result of that could keep up with the likes of Hungary, Great Britain, (South) Korea in group C.

 

[SoundAndFury]

The point is not to have a competitive VHL hockey team, but to have competitive hockey as that is lacking now.

The point that they are in no way capable of creating a VHL team.

For the purposes of competitive hockey, they can just create their own league first, if that's the goal. Why drag in other countries that in terms of hockey are in no way comparable?

 

[Bijelo]

The point that they are in no way capable of creating a VHL team.

For the purposes of competitive hockey, they can just create their own league first, if that's the goal. Why drag in other countries that in terms of hockey are in no way comparable?

Although Bosnia can play good hockey at the national team level at least. Club teams are not relevant at a good level. But Czech Republic had good level in club teams and Russia, USA and Canada as well.

 

[Bijelo]

Bosnia can play hockey and Bosnia plays very well last time.