I'd probably quit watching hockey if they banned fighting

[JustGivingEr]

This whole discussion really just displays how self-absorbed and thoughtless some of you fight-proponents are. A thoughtful debate, if you wanted to have one, would be to try and address the science, try and reason that Boogaard and all the others are flukes, that fighting doesn't tend to have any long term aggregate effects, that 4 out of 4 player autopsies with bad brain trauma aren't a meaningful trend, but that's not what you try. Faced with the argument that you're contributing to early dementia and degenerative brain conditions in athletes by demanding they literally beat their brains in for your petty entertainment, you argue that somehow this makes you a better fan or more masculine. It doesn't. It's quite the opposite.

And since I've already been accused of taking my position as a product of my presumed "liberal"ness, I'll just throw it out there that this reeks of your presumed callous conservatism at its worst.

One could argue that everyone who fights know the risks. Similar brain injuries are suffered by NFL players, quarterback's specifically. Each time a quarterback snaps the football he knows that he is putting his health and well-being in jeopardy. Each time a NASCAR driver gets behind the wheel he is putting himself in jeopardy. Each time an NHL player steps on the ice he is putting himself in jeopardy. Each time an NHL fighter drops the gloves he is putting himself in jeopardy.

Fighting in the NHL isn't like being drafted in the army. You aren't forced to drop the gloves. Nobody makes these guys fight. They might say they "have to" but the fact is they don't. You and I and everyone else on this forum is getting through their life without playing in the NHL. These players decide that they're well-being and health is worth the risk if it means they can play in the NHL. One could argue that these guys are kids, too immature and reckless to be able to decide their fate. But I disagree. Junior and NHL players are old enough to make their own decisions. I quit playing competitive hockey (with contact) partially because of concussion history. Any player, anywhere, can do it the same. I decided that the risk just wasn't worth it. Sure, I wasn't making millions of dollars, and maybe I would have kept playing if I was, but its ultimately the players decision.

Fighting will die out in the NHL when those who fight are no longer willing to put their bodies on the line. Until that day comes there will always be fights, regardless of whether they are outlawed by the league.

 

[Positive]

Can we at least agree that it's incredibly lame to stop watching hockey completely if there was no fighting? Considering that the majority of games have no fighting?!

 

[Positive]

Each time a NASCAR driver gets behind the wheel he is putting himself in jeopardy.

Actually, I'd probably quit watching auto-racing if there was no possibility of wrecks happening.

Just joking. I don't watch auto-racing.

 

[haseoke39]

Fighting will die out in the NHL when those who fight are no longer willing to put their bodies on the line. Until that day comes there will always be fights, regardless of whether they are outlawed by the league.

False. Fighting will die out when fans are distressed enough at seeing players injured unnecessarily that the League decides it is best served by banning it.

The day the League treats fighting the way the NFL or basketball treats fighting, you'll see as much fighting in the NHL as in those other leagues.

 

[mygameworn]

Can we at least agree that it's incredibly lame to stop watching hockey completely if there was no fighting? Considering that the majority of games have no fighting?!

Oh absolutely, it would be foolish to stop.

 

[JustGivingEr]

False. Fighting will die out when fans are distressed enough at seeing players injured unnecessarily that the League decides it is best served by banning it.

The day the League treats fighting the way the NFL or basketball treats fighting, you'll see as much fighting in the NHL as in those other leagues.

I disagree. Throughout all my years of playing hockey fighting was always illegal save the last few. Suspensions were handed out for every fight that happened in my high school league and you know what, fights still happened regularly. The culture of the game right now is to fight. Maybe the culture should be changed? I disagree ,but thats another issue. Fighting isn't instilled in basketball or football players game from the time they learn to watch the game. With emotions running high guys aren't going to care if they will get suspended, they will still fight. You can ban it if you want, and fighting definitely would decrease, but it wouldn't go away.


It's up to the players to make a change, not the fans.



Also, fighting on flat ground, (i.e. basketball, football) is WAAAYY more dangerous than NHL fights. And the hate factor in hockey is a lot more prevalent in hockey. When you see two football teams who hate each other, there are way more fights/scuffles. Nobody playing hockey helps each other up or is laughing between plays (unless you're really good friends). It's just not the way the game is played.

Edit: Also I agree that non-watching if fighting is banned is absurd. I wouldn't be happy, but I would still watch every Jets game regardless of if there is fighting or not.

 

[Positive]

The culture of the game right now is to fight. Maybe the culture should be changed? I disagree ,but thats another issue. Fighting isn't instilled in basketball or football players game from the time they learn to watch the game.

Does the culture change start at the NHL level, or does it start at the grassroots level. Midget, bantam..heck peewee? Chicken or egg, etc...

 

[JustGivingEr]

Does the culture change start at the NHL level, or does it start at the grassroots level. Midget, bantam..heck peewee? Chicken or egg, etc...

Its tough to determine. It's difficult to change the culture of a sport, or a culture of anything for that matter. I don't think the culture should change (I like my hockey as is) but I think the only way for fighting to be removed is if the mindset of a "hockey player" is entirely changed.

 

[Dirk316]

I hate the new generation young kids that are not fans who actually go to games. Most likely stream from the computer counting fantasy stats. Those are the usual types that hate fighting. Of course they like to bring up the playoffs forgetting to mention how many "misconducts" are given towards the end of most lopsided games for any small reason to prevent fights. Anyone who actually watches the playoffs know damn well if it wasn't for this fighting would be at a higher percentage than in the regular season. It's so frustrating reading the thoughts from these Bettman spawned youngins.

 

[WorkingOvertime]

Does the culture change start at the NHL level, or does it start at the grassroots level. Midget, bantam..heck peewee? Chicken or egg, etc...

This logic may be reaching, but I think the Euro leagues provide an example that fighting is part of the culture, regardless of the region's attitude toward fighting. Much of Europe doesn't allow fighting at any level of hockey, but there are still (less frequent) fights in the professional leagues. I haven't seen official numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if the top-tier league in Finland had more fights than NBA, MLB, and NFL combined last year. Here is a thread with videos of fights in Finland, with links to other European hockey fights. http://www.hockeyfights.com/forums/f64/finnish-fights-2011-2012-a-162054/index4.html

IMO this shows that fighting and hockey aren't easily separable. Hockey is a tenacious and unique sport that is difficult to compare to other mainstream sports- as many try to do in these threads. If players fight in countries that never 'allowed' fighting, I'm not sure the North American game can change.

 

[tacogeoff]

Can we at least agree that it's incredibly lame to stop watching hockey completely if there was no fighting? Considering that the majority of games have no fighting?!

Agreed it is lame to stop watching hockey completely if there is no fighting. It would definatly suck balls not to have fighting in the league. I am all for knuckle chucking, it brings a unique aspect to our game and is the only other time besides a goal which brings the whole arena to get up out of their seat and go wild.

 

[Claimed Off Waivers]

I'd miss fighting if it was banned but I'd continue watching hockey. I would not, however, miss the staged fights between designated goons.

 

[SgtJoseph*]

False. Fighting will die out when fans are distressed enough at seeing players injured unnecessarily that the League decides it is best served by banning it.

The day the League treats fighting the way the NFL or basketball treats fighting, you'll see as much fighting in the NHL as in those other leagues.

Why is it the fans business if 2 players decide to have a go with each other to settle an issue ?If certain fans get "distressed", they can go to the restroom, or perhaps go to the concession stand for a hot dog etc....I just do not understand why you think its your right not to be distressed or offended at a hockey game ?How bout a hard legal hit that snaps a players Femur in half ? or a skate blade that slices a players throat open ? Do you want to have some sort of liberal encounter group at games to counsel you and folks of your ilk that feel " distressed " ? I will agree that a player fighting another player who is not willing to drop them, is wrong, but this rarely happens.....The 3rd man in rule being dropped would FIX a lot of these issues....It needs to abolished.

 

[Eaglepride*]

Feel a lot less intersted in it, cause not only would I miss fighting but also some part of the huge tradition would be gone.

This regime has already killed dynasty teams, rewarding winning (no you are rewarded for sucking with the top picks) and what not so don't mess with our beloved game.

Personally I want to see the return of the super heavyweights sooner than later, they bring some energy and enjoyment no skilled guy can ever bring.

 

[SgtJoseph*]

Can we at least agree that it's incredibly lame to stop watching hockey completely if there was no fighting? Considering that the majority of games have no fighting?!

And this is the main reason why there should NOT be a ban on fighting !........The possibility of one getting there a$$ kicked for a cheap shot etc is why there are many games that fighting is not needed, because players behave OR ELSE !.......GAME-SET-MATCH !

You made a perfect point to keep fighting in the NHL !

 

[Dimaio19]

Elton John is today's idea of what a modern day man should be it seems these days ? Men showing real masculinity and courage by settling disputes or wrongs with a good fist fight in front of 18k people is quite frankly refreshing for us folks who were born and raised to become men by a generation of folks who knew there was real differences between a man and a woman, and who believed in honor and courage.

People still buy into this dreck?

I'd hazard a guess that most of the civilized world thinks fist-fighting is a stupid and pointless display of machismo so that insecure people can settle disputes that they're otherwise not smart and/or articulate enough to.

When I see two guys fighting outside a bar, I don't think "wow! that guy is a 'real man' fighting for honor and courage!". I think "wow! what an idiot"

It used to be that guys fighting to the death, or fighting bears/lions was the height of "masculinity".

Fighting still exists in hockey because there are enough blood-thirsty, insecure fans who need their fill of violence and bravado. That will continue to change as more people open their eyes to how pointless and dangerous fighting is to the players and sport itself. I'd guess that within 15 years (maybe much sooner), fighting is strongly discouraged (if not banned outright) by suspensions and/or automatic game-misconduct penalties.

There's simply no need for it in the game. The average person isn't going to get turned onto hockey for the 30 seconds of fighting which might or might not occur in a game. If a non-hockey fan is truly that bloodthirsty and/or enjoys combat that much, he/she will watch a combat sport. As CTE and other brain issues become more well-known, the non-hockey fan is more likely to be turned off of hockey than turned on by the fighting.

As for the "wussification" of hockey and how it will hurt the sport - look at the NFL. They get roundly criticized for "wussifying" their game by trying to eliminate dangerous hits - yet the game is more popular and profitable than ever. The idea that "softening" a sport will lead to its downfall or a reduction in popularity is total nonsense.

 

[Dimaio19]

False. Fighting will die out when fans are distressed enough at seeing players injured unnecessarily that the League decides it is best served by banning it.

Fighting could die out before that if the NHL decides the liability for allowing fighting is too great. All it takes is one family or former goon to sue the league. While they (goon or family) almost certainly would lose the case, the visibility and media attention put on the effects of CTE/concussions could lead to a backlash of sorts against the league.

 

[SgtJoseph*]

Fighting could die out before that if the NHL decides the liability for allowing fighting is too great. All it takes is one family or former goon to sue the league. While they (goon or family) almost certainly would lose the case, the visibility and media attention put on the effects of CTE/concussions could lead to a backlash of sorts against the league.

The NHL don't "allow" fighting my friend, nor will it allow cross checking, holding, boarding, etc.....These offenses are penalized every game ? You fight, you go to the BOX, you cross check, you go to the box etc.....Why should a former "GOON" sue the league ?For a NHL team employing them to play Hockey which is a rough and tough game ?

I sure miss these days of the NHL !http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms68m8ZP528

 

[EvilCoop]

I wish all fights had emotion and happened way less often. It would make the fights somewhat interesting. I'm a fan of quality fights, not quantity fights.

 

[SgtJoseph*]

I wish all fights had emotion and happened way less often. It would make the fights somewhat interesting. I'm a fan of quality fights, not quantity fights.

Well said ! I agree with this 100%....

 

[Eaglepride*]

People still buy into this dreck?

I'd hazard a guess that most of the civilized world thinks fist-fighting is a stupid and pointless display of machismo so that insecure people can settle disputes that they're otherwise not smart and/or articulate enough to.

When I see two guys fighting outside a bar, I don't think "wow! that guy is a 'real man' fighting for honor and courage!". I think "wow! what an idiot"

It used to be that guys fighting to the death, or fighting bears/lions was the height of "masculinity".

Fighting still exists in hockey because there are enough blood-thirsty, insecure fans who need their fill of violence and bravado. That will continue to change as more people open their eyes to how pointless and dangerous fighting is to the players and sport itself. I'd guess that within 15 years (maybe much sooner), fighting is strongly discouraged (if not banned outright) by suspensions and/or automatic game-misconduct penalties.

There's simply no need for it in the game. The average person isn't going to get turned onto hockey for the 30 seconds of fighting which might or might not occur in a game. If a non-hockey fan is truly that bloodthirsty and/or enjoys combat that much, he/she will watch a combat sport. As CTE and other brain issues become more well-known, the non-hockey fan is more likely to be turned off of hockey than turned on by the fighting.

As for the "wussification" of hockey and how it will hurt the sport - look at the NFL. They get roundly criticized for "wussifying" their game by trying to eliminate dangerous hits - yet the game is more popular and profitable than ever. The idea that "softening" a sport will lead to its downfall or a reduction in popularity is total nonsense.

You and some others are wrong here, its not fighting that need to be banned, its the kneejerk based anti-fighting-crowd which should be or find another wussyfied sport. The game is already wussyfied enough especially with Brendan "take a fly to me for hitting" Shanaban, guy sold himself for a quick buck.

NFL = gangster league so hopefully you aren't comparing the greatest sport on this ****ing planet to that.

 

[C77]

It's not like they're punching you in the head.

Get a grip people.

Go to an NHL game...the only time when pretty much all the fans of both teams stand is when they play the anthem(s) and when there is a fight.

Fighting is a big draw....Look at the TV ratings for "revenge" games.

 

[Eaglepride*]

It's not like they're punching you in the head.

Get a grip people.

Go to an NHL game...the only time when pretty much all the fans of both teams stand is when they play the anthem(s) and when there is a fight.

Fighting is a big draw....Look at the TV ratings for "revenge" games.

Yeah just look at the Sabres Bruins ratings, just through the roof so fighting is here to stay and I'm glad.

 

[dave babych returns]

Fighting is a big draw....Look at the TV ratings for "revenge" games.

I am pretty sure the attraction to "revenge" games is just as much the physical, chippy play and heightened emotion as it is the fist-fighting.

 

[Bandit34]

The skill, hitting, and fighting aspects of the game are what makes hockey the great entertaining sport it is. Take out one of those aspects and the sport suffers immensely.