Post-Game Talk: I like Nyquist and our PK

[Run the Jewels]

You must've missed the Edmonton game.

And the Washington game at JLA. We put up like 22 shots in the first period.

 

[Run the Jewels]

How is Nyquist trolling Holland?

Cleary in the pressbox and Nyquist tearing it up. That was a terrible signing and anyone who followed the team could have told you as much. Nyquist's obviously not trolling him - so there's no need to be overly literal.

Over-ripeness had it's time when we were clearly stocked with good NHL talent. It's run it's course and serves no purpose when you pretend you have depth by signing guys like Sammy, Cleary and Bert. Those decisions are a big part of the reason we were so bad before we called up the NHL talent getting over-ripe in Grand Rapids or - in Tatar's case - in the pressbox.

Oh and by the way I was the only guy who had Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco on the team when we were creating lineups this summer.

 

[KJoe88]

Cleary in the pressbox and Nyquist tearing it up. That was a terrible signing and anyone who followed the team could have told you as much. Nyquist's obviously not trolling him - so there's no need to be overly literal.

Over-ripeness had it's time when we were clearly stocked with good NHL talent. It's run it's course and serves no purpose when you pretend you have depth by signing guys like Sammy, Cleary and Bert. Those decisions are a big part of the reason we were so bad before we called up the NHL talent getting over-ripe in Grand Rapids or - in Tatar's case - in the pressbox.

Oh and by the way I was the only guy who had Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco on the team when we were creating lineups this summer.

Yes you did. To be fair, I don't think many of us would have thought Big Sheahan would have come into the line-up and been this good, though. If we expected him to be this good, some of us would have had him included him in our line-ups from the start. Including myself. We knew what we had in Tats and Gus already.

Jurco is gonna be a stud, but the least NHL ready imo. Can still be inserted into the line- up easily.

 

[FlashyG]

Cleary in the pressbox and Nyquist tearing it up. That was a terrible signing and anyone who followed the team could have told you as much. Nyquist's obviously not trolling him - so there's no need to be overly literal.

Over-ripeness had it's time when we were clearly stocked with good NHL talent. It's run it's course and serves no purpose when you pretend you have depth by signing guys like Sammy, Cleary and Bert. Those decisions are a big part of the reason we were so bad before we called up the NHL talent getting over-ripe in Grand Rapids or - in Tatar's case - in the pressbox.

Oh and by the way I was the only guy who had Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan and Jurco on the team when we were creating lineups this summer.

That's true about your line-up but in fairness Jurco almost definitely won't be in the line-up when the team gets healthy, and its possible Sheahan won't either.

 

[Vladdy84]

That's true about your line-up but in fairness Jurco almost definitely won't be in the line-up when the team gets healthy, and its possible Sheahan won't either.

No way he goes down. He's a million times better than Luke and Joker. But he probably will

 

[Flowah]

No way he goes down. He's a million times better than Luke and Joker. But he probably will

D, Weiss, Sheahan, Helm down the middle?

Z, Franzen, Nyquist, Alfie top6 wingers.

Tatar, Abby, Miller, Jurco?

The biggest problem with that is that Glendening and Andersson are a couple of our main penalty killers. There is benefit to not using your top guys as your main PK guys. Especially when your main guys are 33+.

I suppose if Abby is on the third line, he could do some PK work for extra minutes. Then Helm, Miller. Weiss? I've seen Alfie there a few times, Franzen too. Sheahan? Did he do any PK in GR?

 

[silkyjohnson50]

According to most, Sheahan did and was very good on the PK. And I can only imagine he played PK at Notre Dame as well since he was considered the best defensive forward in the league.

Helm and Miller are likely in any lineup scenario. There's your top PK unit that will get the most minutes. Then you basically just need two of Sheahan, Datsyuk, Z, Alfie, Franzen, Abby, Weiss, Andy, or whoever's in the lineup to handle about a minute and a half a game. It's really not asking too much since we have many forwards who have PK experience.

The least talked about aspect about icing the best possible lineup is that you're likely to spend less time on the PK. The more Detroit has the puck and spends time in the offensive zone the less penalties they will take. So not having your "regular" PKers becomes even less of an issue. And once again, it's not like we lack players who can PK.

 

[Flowah]

The least talked about aspect about icing the best possible lineup is that you're likely to spend less time on the PK. The more Detroit has the puck and spends time in the offensive zone the less penalties they will take. So not having your "regular" PKers becomes even less of an issue. And once again, it's not like we lack players who can PK.

Eh, you still go on the PK probably 2-3 times a game. That's 2-3 extra hard minutes for the PK units. With Dats pushing 36 and Zetterberg at 33, I'd rather not put those minutes on them game in and game out unless we really had to.

So yeah, if Sheahan can pick up the slack, Abby can start PKing again, them + Miller/Helm is good enough for me.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

According to most, Sheahan did and was very good on the PK. And I can only imagine he played PK at Notre Dame as well since he was considered the best defensive forward in the league.

Helm and Miller are likely in any lineup scenario. There's your top PK unit that will get the most minutes. Then you basically just need two of Sheahan, Datsyuk, Z, Alfie, Franzen, Abby, Weiss, Andy, or whoever's in the lineup to handle about a minute and a half a game. It's really not asking too much since we have many forwards who have PK experience.

The least talked about aspect about icing the best possible lineup is that you're likely to spend less time on the PK. The more Detroit has the puck and spends time in the offensive zone the less penalties they will take. So not having your "regular" PKers becomes even less of an issue. And once again, it's not like we lack players who can PK.

Worth noting that Glendening actually beat him for this award, though he was at his natural wing position.

Sheahan is a fantastic pk guy, he really is a special teams weapon much like Stoll who I compare him to a lot. He isn't just good on the PP in front of the net either, guy has played the point position as well and has a very heavy one-timer with accuracy when he is put back there.

Sheahan really should get a crack on the pk, our pk should be among the best in the league shortly if Sheahan, Helm, Ferraro, Glendening, Milller, Andersson and even Callahan all work through the lineup. That is an impressive group and it will allow our top end guys time off and help control their minutes. But it is pretty silly that Babcock hasn't allowed him to pk.

 

[Crymson]

There's no reason for Babcock to keep Glendening over Sheahan.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

There's no reason for Babcock to keep Glendening over Sheahan.

I don't think he would.

 

[FlashyG]

There's no reason for Babcock to keep Glendening over Sheahan.

Right now I don't see a big difference between them. I think Riley is slightly better offensively and Glendening is slightly better defensively. My personal preference is to keep Sheahan up over Luke, but I wouldn't say there is no reason to keep Glendening in his place.

Sheahans numbers look a lot better than Glendenings right now, but that has a lot to do with who their playing with and their roles.

The roster spot they'll be filling is 4th line center, and Glendening is the more physical of the 2, is harder to play against and from what I've seen the better defensive player.

I guess it will come down to what type of player Babs wants centering the 4th line.

 

[Frk It]

I see a huge difference between Sheahan and Glendening.

Sheahan can play "up and down" the lineup, which gives him added value. Glendenings maxed out as a 4th liner. Sheahan can win draws better. Sheahan is a better penalty killer, though he hasn't been used there for whatever reason.

Maybe you could say Glendenings better defensively, but if that is true, it's by a tiny amount. Meanwhile Sheahan is a better offensive player in every single way by a big gap (passing, shooting, hands). Also, he looked good as the "net front guy" on the PP. Would put him there on the 2nd unit over Abby/Bert/Cleary any day. And if Franzen continues to stay out, we need a big body to assume that role.

So IMO there's a huge difference between the two. And I actually like Glendening as a player, and don't mind him on the 4th line.

Also if you keep Sheahan, I don't think you're limiting the decision to just picking a "4th line center". He can play pretty much wherever in the lineup.

I really think Sheahans played too good for them to send him down, and they will find a way to keep him. I mean Babcock emphasized putting the "best 12 guys" on the ice, and that has been Sheahan all day.

 

[Crymson]

Here's what I'd like to see when Weiss and (hopefully) Franzen return.

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader (currently too good to split up, Franzen present or not)
Franzen - Datsyuk - Alfredsson (good scoring line)
Tatar - Weiss - Sheahan (also quite good)
Miller - Helm - Eaves/Andersson (excellent checking line)

And whatever defensive pairings.

Glendening deserves the AHL more than Sheahan---though Babcock may, idiotically, send Sheahan down instead because he's obsessed with hardworking grinders, and Cleary can have fun with the Griffins also. This will leave Eaves and one defenseman on the bench.

Barring the above, Kindl is the obvious candidate for a trade, though I question if any team would take a chance on him right now.

 

[Frk It]

Here's what I'd like to see when Weiss and (hopefully) Franzen return.

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader (currently too good to split up, Franzen present or not)
Franzen - Datsyuk - Alfredsson (good scoring line)
Tatar - Weiss - Sheahan (also quite good)
Miller - Helm - Eaves/Andersson (excellent checking line)

And whatever defensive pairings.

Glendening deserves the AHL more than Sheahan---though Babcock may, idiotically, send Sheahan down instead because he's obsessed with hardworking grinders, and Cleary can have fun with the Griffins also. This will leave Eaves and one defenseman on the bench.

They sent Eaves down once, I'm sure a couple shoutout goals won't chance that. He'll waived and go down again.

There's no way they will waive Cleary IMO, because of the "bond" there.

 

[FlashyG]

I see a huge difference between Sheahan and Glendening.

Sheahan can play "up and down" the lineup, which gives him added value. Glendenings maxed out as a 4th liner. Sheahan can win draws better. Sheahan is a better penalty killer, though he hasn't been used there for whatever reason.

Maybe you could say Glendenings better defensively, but if that is true, it's by a tiny amount. Meanwhile Sheahan is a better offensive player in every single way by a big gap (passing, shooting, hands). Also, he looked good as the "net front guy" on the PP. Would put him there on the 2nd unit over Abby/Bert/Cleary any day. And if Franzen continues to stay out, we need a big body to assume that role.

So IMO there's a huge difference between the two. And I actually like Glendening as a player, and don't mind him on the 4th line.

Also if you keep Sheahan, I don't think you're limiting the decision to just picking a "4th line center". He can play pretty much wherever in the lineup.

I really think Sheahans played too good for them to send him down, and they will find a way to keep him. I mean Babcock emphasized putting the "best 12 guys" on the ice, and that has been Sheahan all day.

Sheahan being able to move up the line-up is irrelevant if the team is healthy.

He's not going to push Helm, Weiss or Datsyuk down the line-up and he's not going to see PP time on a healthy team. Of course, if there are injuries he'd be the first call-up but in the rare case that we're healthy the only role on the team for either Glendening or Sheahan would be as a 4th line center and penalty killer. You said yourself that they're not using Sheahan as a PK guy.

As much as I prefer Sheahan overall, I think in that role it wouldn't be surprising to see Babcock keep Glendening up and send Sheahan back to GR. He's frustrating as hell of opposing players to play against, he's been a great penalty killer getting a lot of minutes there, he's a right hand shot which we lack, and he's comfortable playing center or wing.

 

[Frk It]

Sheahan being able to move up the line-up is irrelevant if the team is healthy.

He's not going to push Helm, Weiss or Datsyuk down the line-up and he's not going to see PP time on a healthy team. Of course, if there are injuries he'd be the first call-up but in the rare case that we're healthy the only role on the team for either Glendening or Sheahan would be as a 4th line center and penalty killer. You said yourself that they're not using Sheahan as a PK guy.

As much as I prefer Sheahan overall, I think in that role it wouldn't be surprising to see Babcock keep Glendening up and send Sheahan back to GR. He's frustrating as hell of opposing players to play against, he's been a great penalty killer getting a lot of minutes there, he's a right hand shot which we lack, and he's comfortable playing center or wing.

I can see your point, as far as, if it's just which guy is going to play 8-9 min ES and PK, than there's not much between them.

On paper it seems like Sheahan wouldn't push the guys you have listed. But Babcock has played Sheahan at wing, so I don't think Weiss and Helm are the only guys he could steal a spot from.

And what about if someone is slumping in the top 9? Like Abby?

Also why wouldn't he see PP time on a healthy PP time? Babcock NEEDS a screener on each PP line. Even to the point where he was willing to ice a unit without a C and play the incompetent Cleary there. Bertuzzi and Cleary have played that role all year, but those guys have been relegated to the box. So if we're healthy, Franzen is screener on PP1, who's screener on PP2? Abby? When's the last time he was a PP regular, like October? Babcock played Cleary and Bert over him on the PP, clearly he doesn't think much of him.

Meanwhile Sheahans been on the PP for the last month or so, and scored some goals. He seems like the best option we have to play net front PP2. He has hands in around the net. When our weak point shots get knocked down and end up on the net front guys stick, he can, and has buried those chances. Bert doesn't. Abby doesn't. Cleary sure as hell doesn't.

 

[jaster]

Glendening > Sheahan.

Go Blue!

 

[Crymson]

I'm still laughing at Babcock having used Cleary on the PP instead of Abdelkader. Err, hmm, Abdelkader is faster, stronger, and actually able to shoot the puck, and at no point during the past 30 games has he had any less than twice the number of points Cleary has had. But noooo, Babcock just wouldn't give up the hope that Cleary might return to his form from three seasons earlier. Danny was as much a black hole for offense on the power play as he was for any line on which he was played.

To illustrate just how much of a crime playing this thoroughly unsuited man on the power play was, consider these statistics: Cleary was given 1:30 of power play time per game, including numerous games on the 1st power play unit... and to go along with his zero goals and zero assists on the power play, he was on the ice for one(!!!!) power-play goal for. That's right: ONE. He was worse than useless out there. His ability to screen the goalie amounted to nothing, especially next to his general incapacity to play hockey. By comparison, Abdelkader, who still trails Cleary by a full 30 seconds in PP TOI/game (and who has only recently received time on the 1st unit), has been on the ice for six PPG for, and has three power play points in addition to his ability---vastly greater than that of Cleary---to properly play the net-front role on that unit.

The more I think about Babcock's horrendously irresponsible fixation on Cleary, the more it irks me.

 

[Frk It]

Glendening > Sheahan.

Go Blue!

Psh, you would!

 

[Heaton]

I'm still laughing at Babcock having used Cleary on the PP instead of Abdelkader. Err, hmm, Abdelkader is faster, stronger, and actually able to shoot the puck, and at no point during the past 30 games has he had any less than twice the number of points Cleary has had. But noooo, Babcock just wouldn't give up the hope that Cleary might return to his form from three seasons earlier. Danny was as much a black hole for offense on the power play as he was for any line on which he was played.

To illustrate just how much of a crime playing this thoroughly unsuited man on the power play was, consider these statistics: Cleary was given 1:30 of power play time per game, including numerous games on the 1st power play unit... and to go along with his zero goals and zero assists on the power play, he was on the ice for one(!!!!) power-play goal for. That's right: ONE. He was worse than useless out there. His ability to screen the goalie amounted to nothing, especially next to his general incapacity to play hockey. By comparison, Abdelkader, who still trails Cleary by a full 30 seconds in PP TOI/game (and who has only recently received time on the 1st unit), has been on the ice for six PPG for, and has three power play points in addition to his ability---vastly greater than that of Cleary---to properly play the net-front role on that unit.

The more I think about Babcock's horrendously irresponsible fixation on Cleary, the more it irks me.

While annoying, it's not going on anymore, might as well let it go. Especially since the team is playing so well.

 

[Crymson]

While annoying, it's not going on anymore, might as well let it go. Especially since the team is playing so well.

I still live in fear of Babcock going back to Cleary. His months of overplaying the guy last season were bad enough, but his insistence on doing so this year as well---with Cleary playing even worse---made games hugely frustrating for me to watch.

I've got a sneaking suspicion that Babcock still plans to play Cleary in the playoffs.

 

[Heaton]

I still live in fear of Babcock going back to Cleary. His months of overplaying the guy last season were bad enough, but his insistence on doing so this year as well---with Cleary playing even worse---made games hugely frustrating for me to watch.

I've got a sneaking suspicion that Babcock still plans to play Cleary in the playoffs.

Maybe, but why wouldn't he play him now then? This is basically the playoffs.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Second line is a mess. None of those players shoot first. All look to pass. I'd honestly do:

Nyquist-Z-Abby
Franzen-Dats-Sheahan
Tatar-Weiss-Alfredsson
Miller-Helm-Glendening

Helm will play a lot of minutes. Plus, we'll never be completely healthy. Sheahan is not going anywhere. Jurco has been good, but not to the level that there's no way that he's going down.

I agree that Jurco could be sent down but I'd like to see Eaves, Bert, Cleary and Sammy waived before that happens. Like I've said before, he plays the game Bert and Cleary are supposed to play and can actually skate. He's got size so his ability to actually play hockey makes Sammy useless as a big, warm body.

I am not totally tied to the lines I put together however Sheahan has shown enough skill to warrant being put on Datsyuk's line. Mule will likely return to Z's line when he gets healthy. So I can see trying Sheahan on Datsyuk's line as a more skilled and talented Abdelkader.

Weiss has been terrible at center, he needs to be Filppula'd and moved to wing.

 

[Henkka]

Watched this game at last and here's some scoring chance data:

Player, Goals, Assists, Sco chances, Created chances, Screened chances = Total

Zeta, 0+0+4+2+0 = 6
Gus, 1+0+2+3+0 = 6
Kader, 0+1+0+1+3 = 5

Dats, 0+0+2+4+1 = 7
Alfie, 1+0+4+2+0 = 7
Helm, 0+1+3+0+0 = 4

Shea, 0+0+3+0+3 = 6
Tatar, 0+0+2+1+0 = 3
Jurco, 0+0+1+2+0 = 3

Mills, 0+0+0+2+0 = 2
Andy, 0+0+2+0+0 = 2
Glendy, 0+0+0+0+0 = 0

Kronwall, 0+2+1+2+0 = 5
Ericsson, 0+0+2+0+0 = 2

DeKeyser, 0+0+1+0+0 = 1
Quincey, 0+0+0+1+0 = 1

Lashoff, 1+0+1+0+0 = 2
Smith, 0+0+0+0+0 = 0

Didn't look a bad return for Datsyuk. He makes one line by himself. Just give him some better finisher than Helm (like Mule) and we cruise for glory. Riley Sheahan still impresses with his perfect net-front play. Helm has had 17 scoring chances in-a-row without a scored goal. Time for him to take that center spot from Glendening on the 4th line, when Mule and Weiss will return to TOP9.


DET @ FLO 3-1
1st period chances: 12-3
2nd period chances: 12-9
3rd period chances: 7-13
-----------------------
60min total: 31-25