Prospect Info: Hurricanes Prospect Info and Discussion - Part V

[NotOpie]

How has Brock mcginn played this season, and what do u guys see as his upside in the nhl?

He's been playing quite well recently and was the NHLs 3rd star of the week about a week ago.

He's likely destined to top out as a 3rd liner with some scoring upside. On a very good team he's likely a 4th line guy.

On another positive note, the Checkers are 6-3-1 in their last 10. Lucas Wallmark is a particular bright spot and now leads the team with 13 goals including the overtime winner this weekend. Both goaltenders had solid outings too.

 

[HisIceness]

That pass he made to Lindholm in the Islanders game was a thing of beauty. Reminded me of Ray Whitney in that game against Boston I think our last playoff season. He's got some feistiness in his game too, never a bad thing.

Brock "The Wizard 2.0" McGinn.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

That pass he made to Lindholm in the Islanders game was a thing of beauty. Reminded me of Ray Whitney in that game against Boston I think our last playoff season. He's got some feistiness in his game too, never a bad thing.

Brock "The Wizard 2.0" McGinn.

That pass was a very nice play. His game, though, really doesn't resemble that of Whitney. Whitney was very skilled, smart, and a perimeter player who really didn't engage much physically. He was much, much more skilled than McGinn and utilized his smarts, vision and skills to be effective.

McGinn plays with a physical edge and has a bit of a bull in a China shop mentality. He has some skill, but he's more Brock "LaRose 2.0" McGinn.

 

[NotOpie]

That pass was a very nice play. His game, though, really doesn't resemble that of Whitney. Whitney was very skilled, smart, and a perimeter player who really didn't engage much physically. He was much, much more skilled than McGinn and utilized his smarts, vision and skills to be effective.

McGinn plays with a physical edge and has a bit of a bull in a China shop mentality. He has some skill, but he's more Brock "LaRose 2.0" McGinn.

To me, the single biggest year over year improvement happened between his ears. He either started paying attention or went back to basics. It has shown up in two places in his game. First, defensively, he's not chasing like he did last season. He's much better at simply guarding his man/space. Secondly, he's more offensively aware. That has manifested itself as actually making quick decisions instead of deciding in advance and doing that, no matter what. That awareness has allowed him to use his vision better/more.

One other thing, despite his size, he goes to the front of the net.

 

[Vagrant]

People have opinions about Brock McGinn that are based on the 21 games he played last year and are really tough to move off them. The truth is that every season, he's gotten a little better at defining his game. Literally every single year of his career has been better than the previous all the way back to his early teens. We saw a flash of what he's capable of bringing in that 4 point game. He's by no stretch a sure thing to be anything over a 3rd liner, but underrate him at your peril considering the incremental improvement he's shown since being drafted. Sometimes when players get called up too soon in their developmental curve, people are really eager to curb them. It reminds me of how people thought of Nino Niederreiter as an Islander. The team brought him up way too soon and he looked appropriately lost. Instead of investing some patience, he was written off entirely. Now, he's a central figure for Minnesota and one of the most underrated players in the league based on the opinions created when he had that horrendous 1 goal 0 assist -29 in 55 games season for the Islanders at the ripe old age of 20.

I'll start to consider a ceiling for Brock when he has an offseason where he comes back and looks like the same player he was in game 82 of the season before. As for now, the projection remains wide open. There are few players in our system that have consistently achieved observable improvement on a yearly basis. Most are appropriately recognized for it. Nicolas Roy is an example. But it seems like when a player spends more than a season's worth of games in the AHL, interest in them wanes to a degree that swings the pendulum from overvalued to undervalued. You can rest assured that if a guy like Roy hits the AHL next year and produces 0.3 to 0.4 ppg we'll have some of the same voices decrying his lack of development.

 

[NotOpie]

People have opinions about Brock McGinn that are based on the 21 games he played last year and are really tough to move off them. The truth is that every season, he's gotten a little better at defining his game. Literally every single year of his career has been better than the previous all the way back to his early teens. We saw a flash of what he's capable of bringing in that 4 point game. He's by no stretch a sure thing to be anything over a 3rd liner, but underrate him at your peril considering the incremental improvement he's shown since being drafted. Sometimes when players get called up too soon in their developmental curve, people are really eager to curb them. It reminds me of how people thought of Nino Niederreiter as an Islander. The team brought him up way too soon and he looked appropriately lost. Instead of investing some patience, he was written off entirely. Now, he's a central figure for Minnesota and one of the most underrated players in the league based on the opinions created when he had that horrendous 1 goal 0 assist -29 in 55 games season for the Islanders at the ripe old age of 20.

I'll start to consider a ceiling for Brock when he has an offseason where he comes back and looks like the same player he was in game 82 of the season before. As for now, the projection remains wide open. There are few players in our system that have consistently achieved observable improvement on a yearly basis. Most are appropriately recognized for it. Nicolas Roy is an example. But it seems like when a player spends more than a season's worth of games in the AHL, interest in them wanes to a degree that swings the pendulum from overvalued to undervalued. You can rest assured that if a guy like Roy hits the AHL next year and produces 0.3 to 0.4 ppg we'll have some of the same voices decrying his lack of development.

Couldn't agree more....McGinn needed to be called up last season, needed to look a bit lost, and needed to go back down to develop. I'd say, he's a bona fide NHLer right now and probably will continue to get better. I do believe he has some scoring upside. However, if only his defensive game continues to improve, he will still be a valuable contributor.

 

[denominator]

Prospect related question...........

Has there been instances of NHL GM's communicating with CHL teams about potentially moving players? Say for instance, in Jake Bean's situation where he's on a terrible team and GMRF doesn't like the way he's developing, can he communicate with Calgary's front office about trading him?

Uhm... not officially.

NHL teams are not allowed to suggest or force CHL teams to move players, or change things like their icetime or deployment, under the CHL-NHL transfer agreement.

Jake Virtanen was kept with the Canucks last season because they did not like how he was being used and trained in Calgary. Vancouver couldn't do anything other than keep Virtanen with the big club when he was not ready.

Of course, there is nothing to prevent an NHL team from calling a different CHL team and implying that a trade would be beneficial. There have been some shady moves in the past couple of years - Leon Draisaitl's rights were traded from Prince Albert (crappy team) to Kelowna (good team) just before he was sent back to junior from Edmonton (post-Christmas). Draisaitl ended up winning the league with the Rockets. This year there was a similar trade involving Reid Gardiner (again, going from the Raiders to the Rockets) before he reported back to junior. The Hitmen had another one where Adam Tambellini's rights were acquired and he then reported to the WHL from NCAA, but again he was out of the league at the time of the trade. All cases involve a player's rights being moved while he is in another league to create favourable circumstances for his return - it would be like the Fleury getting traded from the Rebels to a contending team, then the Canes sending him back to junior for the rest of the season for a shot at a Memorial Cup.

The CHL, and the WHL in particular, come down very harshly on anything that isn't above board. We're dealing with teenagers playing in small cities for teams without a lot of money. Even though 3 WHL teams (the Hitmen, Oil Kings, and Giants) are owned by NHL teams and have enough money to fly to and from away games, all teams are required to bus during the season so that nobody gains an advantage. You get funny situations like in 2010 when the Hitmen paid to fly both teams competing in the league finals so they didn't have to take the bus. If a team were caught colluding with an NHL team, there would be strict sanctions applied, just look at what happened to the WinterHawks in 2012:

http://winterhawks.com/winterhawks-statement-on-whl-sanctions-suspension/

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

People have opinions about Brock McGinn that are based on the 21 games he played last year and are really tough to move off them.

Couldn't agree more....McGinn needed to be called up last season, needed to look a bit lost, and needed to go back down to develop. I'd say, he's a bona fide NHLer right now and probably will continue to get better. I do believe he has some scoring upside. However, if only his defensive game continues to improve, he will still be a valuable contributor.

I assume Vagrant's post is in response to my post so I'll address it in that light (if it's not, then it's just a general comment).

People seem to take a Chad Larose comparison as a slight. It's not. My point was his style of play is in no, way shape or form, similar to Ray Whitney, not even close. His style of play is much more similar to Larose IMO. Hustle, "grit", likes to be aggressive, a bit of an agitator, has the ability to not be out of place whether in the top 6 or bottom 6 and has more offensive skill than people ever gave him credit for.

I'm not saying anything about his ceiling, in fact, I think he can develop into a better offensive player than Larose. I'm saying that if we are comparing him to previous Canes player (the post I was responding to), Larose is the best comparison I can come up with in terms of style of play.

 

[Vagrant]

I assume Vagrant's post is in response to my post so I'll address it in that light (if it's not, then it's just a general comment).

People seem to take a Chad Larose comparison as a slight. It's not. My point was his style of play is in no, way shape or form, similar to Ray Whitney, not even close. His style of play is much more similar to Larose IMO. Hustle, "grit", likes to be aggressive, a bit of an agitator, has the ability to not be out of place whether in the top 6 or bottom 6 and has more offensive skill than people ever gave him credit for.

I'm not saying anything about his ceiling, in fact, I think he can develop into a better offensive player than Larose. I'm saying that if we are comparing him to previous Canes player (the post I was responding to), Larose is the best comparison I can come up with in terms of style of play.

It was more of a general comment for sure. There's nothing about Brock's game that resembles Whitney's game in my opinion and I was pretty happy with Larose as a player. He just suffered a lot at the lack of depth we had then and still do. If Brock ends up being like Larose, that'll tickle me pink. Good player.

 

[Vagrant]

Jake Bean had a hat trick last night. Picked up an assist as well. Good to see him come back with some confidence.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

For those interested, here are the highlights --> http://whl.ca/video/highlights-pats-6-at-hitmen-5-ot

As this season has progressed, I find myself liking the Bean pick more and more. It's not because of his performance so much as it is about the somewhat static progression of the young NHL blueliners in terms of offensive production. Hanifin started off hot, but has really cooled in recent months. Slavin and Pesce are scoring at about their rookie rates. From my perspective, those respective rates appear to be reflective of their natural offensive abilities.

Barring a lucky lottery combination or a significant trade, Carolina will try to win without that all-star caliber, offensive centerpiece up front. They'll need to find additional offense to compensate. Having another defenseman capable of scoring 10+ goals and/or 40+ points would be helpful. Bean seems to have the skillset needed to potentially be that guy in that future.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

In other news, slick dangle and finish by Roy --> http://theqmjhl.ca/video/jan-2717-sagueneens-2-cataractes-3-so

 

[CandyCanes]

Wallmark has 10 pts in his last nine. Somebody is knocking on the door.

 

[geehaad]

Perhaps this question is best asked of denominator, but to all: is it likely that Bean needs to be advised like Fleury was? That is, "The offense is well and good, but you need to solidify your defensive game, because without it you won't be worth the first-round pick we spent on you". Is there evidence that he's doing that work, or does it appear that he is playing to develop his offensive game?

 

[GoldiFox]

Jake Bean had a hat trick last night. Picked up an assist as well. Good to see him come back with some confidence.

Looked like he was playing RD all game as well, same as last year when he found success. Maybe had a factor at the WJC where he was having to play LD.

 

[MinJaBen]

Looked like he was playing RD all game as well, same as last year when he found success. Maybe had a factor at the WJC where he was having to play LD.

Was he really playing RD, or were most of those goals on the PP where the guys at the point often switch sides to better one-time the passes? I thought at least two of the goals were on the PP.

 

[GoldiFox]

Was he really playing RD, or were most of those goals on the PP where the guys at the point often switch sides to better one-time the passes? I thought at least two of the goals were on the PP.

Re-watching it he was lining up on both left and right at times on faceoffs. Just seemed to be scoring from the right more often.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It was more of a general comment for sure. There's nothing about Brock's game that resembles Whitney's game in my opinion and I was pretty happy with Larose as a player. He just suffered a lot at the lack of depth we had then and still do. If Brock ends up being like Larose, that'll tickle me pink. Good player.

Fair enough. I think we see eye to eye on McGinn. Well, as much as possible with you being like 6'11" tall.

 

[BHD]

Watching Gauthier play tonight. He's a man amongst boys.

 

[Vagrant]

Watching Gauthier play tonight. He's a man amongst boys.

Awesome. I have to admit that I was somewhat ambivalent to his selection, but having watched him at the WJC and in camp there's something there. I'm not sure if we're looking at a 30 goal scorer at any point, but a big body that's willing to go to the net and stay there is exactly what this team needs.

 

[geehaad]

Bean with 4 assists last night, including one that was originally awarded to him as a goal.

Helvig with back-to-back shutouts.

 

[CandyCanes]

Surprised we haven't shown Hudson Elynuik more love. I liked the pick when we drafted him and is having a solid season in juniors.

52pts in 45 games. Oh and don't forget he's 6"5 200pds.

Icing a jumbo line of Elynuik, Roy, and Gauthier would be interesting down the road if they can all develop.

 

[NotOpie]

Surprised we haven't shown Hudson Elynuik more love. I liked the pick when we drafted him and is having a solid season in juniors.

52pts in 45 games. Oh and don't forget he's 6"5 200pds.

Icing a jumbo line of Elynuik, Roy, and Gauthier would be interesting down the road if they can all develop.

You can add David Cotton to that group as well. Kid is big and has good hands. He's got some wheels to, but apparently, it takes a bit for him to get up to speed. 8 goals and 20 points in 28 games as a freshman on a darn good Boston College team. 6'3" and 205 makes him another big boy in the middle.

I'm pretty excited for the next two or three years with Foegele, Kuokkanen, and Filipe likely making the leap to pros.

 

[EON]

Warren Foegele has looked pretty good since coming over to Erie, I won't be surprised if the Canes sign him and stick him in the AHL next season. Good size and speed but also a great two-way player, could see him developing into a versatile bottom six forward.

 

[lakai17]

Wallmark has 10 pts in his last nine. Somebody is knocking on the door.

I agree, going under the radar in his first north American season.