OT: Hurricanes Lounge XXIII: Let's Go Bowling edition

[RodTheBawd]

I've read most of the bill and read a lot of competing commentary. It has caused me heartburn to no end. My big issue is that both governmental bodies (City of Charlotte, State of North Carolina) chose to legislate where pure, non-litigious common sense should have prevailed. Use what ever bathroom is appropriate for your personal sexual identity. Who the **** cares? The City of Charlotte's actions guaranteed lawsuits and the State of NC's actions guaranteed (and probably rightfully so) accusations of bigotry....at least on some levels. The crazy thing is that the core of HB 2 aligns the definition of "protected classes" with the federal definition (which is not an editorial comment on rightness).

I think the fear of some creeper throwing on a wig to access a women's bathroom is what concerns a lot of people. The problem with that fear is that I don't think there have been any reported cases of something like that happening. Could all of the attention that is now being drawn to the issue give some creeps some fresh ideas? Perhaps. I can at least understand where proponents of that portion of the bill are coming from, even if those fears are (from what I've seen) unfounded. Personally, I'd prefer to not have to explain to my daughter why there is a large man (by looks) in the bathroom with her.

 

[NotOpie]

I think the fear of some creeper throwing on a wig to access a women's bathroom is what concerns a lot of people. The problem with that fear is that I don't think there have been any reported cases of something like that happening. Could all of the attention that is now being drawn to the issue give some creeps some fresh ideas? Perhaps. I can at least understand where proponents of that portion of the bill are coming from, even if those fears are (from what I've seen) unfounded. Personally, I'd prefer to not have to explain to my daughter why there is a large man (by looks) in the bathroom with her.

As a parent and something of a Libertarian, I can understand where both sides got their ideas. I just think one of the most egregious affronts to our Constitution is the concept that we can legislate common sense. In the end we try to box so many things in and, as Hank referenced, totally consider the immutable law of unintended consequences.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I believe (but may be wrong on this point) that the "Wage and Hour Act" component essentially reinforced existing law. That being, that in NC, municipalities that attempt that type of legislation are over-stepping their defined constitutional roles/rights. The state just smacked them down....like I said, I may be wrong on that last part but I did listen to a couple of commentators on both sides of the issue essentially say that component of the legislation was duplicative.

If this were actually true, then NC wouldn't need to pass a law to "reinforce" it in the sneakiest way possible, now, would they have?

 

[NotOpie]

If this were actually true, then NC wouldn't need to pass a law to "reinforce" it in the sneakiest way possible, now, would they have?

I was not denying the "sneaky" nature of the law, but I believe you are giving way too much credit to the political class. Centralized power getting even more centralized. Believe me, we have too many duplicative laws to count. This was just the NC legislature's way of doing their bidders work. Not doubt about that.

Frankly, I don't have any issues with the state reinforcing it's rights (if that was indeed the case), but my more libertarian tendencies causes me true cognitive dissonance given over-legislation in general. In the end the state gov. could have just passed a bill that said, local governmental bodies don't have the right to pass those kinds of bills.....then we would have had us a real court battle. I'm pretty certain the idea that local governments passing minimum wage laws either will or currently is pushing its way to and/or through the courts.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

I've got absolutely no problem with a state blocking a town's attempt to establish their own minimum wage.

 

[The Stranger]

I think the fear of some creeper throwing on a wig to access a women's bathroom is what concerns a lot of people. The problem with that fear is that I don't think there have been any reported cases of something like that happening. Could all of the attention that is now being drawn to the issue give some creeps some fresh ideas? Perhaps. I can at least understand where proponents of that portion of the bill are coming from, even if those fears are (from what I've seen) unfounded. Personally, I'd prefer to not have to explain to my daughter why there is a large man (by looks) in the bathroom with her.

It's more than that. Separate bathrooms for the sexes is a strong cultural norm and most public use buildings are designed to support it. Now some folks with gender identity issues want an exception. What do you do at school if a biological boy wants to use the girls restroom and locker-room?

 

[RodTheBawd]

It's more than that. Separate bathrooms for the sexes is a strong cultural norm and most public use buildings are designed to support it. Now some folks with gender identity issues want an exception. What do you do at school if a biological boy wants to use the girls restroom and locker-room?

Yeah.... I'm not touching this one with a 10 foot pole (whether I was born with it or not).

 

[Navin R Slavin]

It's more than that. Separate bathrooms for the sexes is a strong cultural norm and most public use buildings are designed to support it. Now some folks with gender identity issues want an exception. What do you do at school if a biological boy wants to use the girls restroom and locker-room?

You let people figure it out with common sense.

Instead, the state has now mandated, through legislation, that this person must use a woman's restroom in the state of NC:

Why? Because the old-ass men making laws have no idea what transgendered people actually look like. So they made a law that will likely do the exact opposite of what they thought they wanted.

Good job, guys!

 

[NotOpie]

You let people figure it out with common sense.

Instead, the state has now mandated, through legislation, that this person must use a woman's restroom in the state of NC:

Why? Because the old-ass men making laws have no idea what transgendered people actually look like. So they made a law that will likely do the exact opposite of what they thought they wanted.

Good job, guys!

Again, Hank, you're giving them way too much credit.

They were simply pandering to what they perceived to be their base without thinking anything about who actually votes and gets people elected. That vocal minority doesn't any more realize that the tatoo'd woman above will now be sharing the restroom with their young daughters, nor do they understand the business cost ramifications if the original Charlotte ordinance was maintained as law.

To repeat, neither one of these laws should have been passed, there was no real issue except demagoguery fodder, and people should get over themselves, trying to solve more things through conversation as opposed to confrontation. Now an issue that should have no sides has 47 of 'em.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

This fellow should change his birth certificate. Seems reasonable.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

To repeat, neither one of these laws should have been passed, there was no real issue except demagoguery fodder, and people should get over themselves, trying to solve more things through conversation as opposed to confrontation. Now an issue that should have no sides has 47 of 'em.

That is a fantastic perspective, IMO.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

This fellow should change his birth certificate. Seems reasonable.

Maybe -- except that [he] hasn't gone through sexual reassignment surgery. Which is the current burden of proof in the state of North Carolina to have your birth certificate changed. So this "reasonable" remedy is actually unavailable.

The actual "reasonable" course of action would have been to leave people alone. Don't start none, won't be none. But no: opportunistic politicians need bogeymen.

 

[NotOpie]

Maybe -- except that [he] hasn't gone through sexual reassignment surgery. Which is the current burden of proof in the state of North Carolina to have your birth certificate changed. So this "reasonable" remedy is actually unavailable.

The actual "reasonable" course of action would have been to leave people alone. Don't start none, won't be none. But no: opportunistic politicians need bogeymen.

^^This 100%.

Unfortunately those opportunists exist at every governmental level as was displayed via this cluster ****.

The only reasonable course of action: Close the door on your stall (or is that Staal) no matter what restroom you're in.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Personally? I say give up gendered bathrooms, and build bathrooms that have stalls with doors that close. There's really no need for men to piss in a glorified trough in the wealthiest nation in the world.

Europe has amazing bathroom stalls. Doors that go all the way up! And down! And locks that work! And no cracks to see through! But that's socialist, I suppose.

LOL America.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Personally? I say give up gendered bathrooms, and build bathrooms that have stalls with doors that close. There's really no need for men to piss in a glorified trough in the wealthiest nation in the world.

Europe has amazing bathroom stalls. Doors that go all the way up! And down! And locks that work! And no cracks to see through! But that's socialist, I suppose.

LOL America.

Psstt... I found the guy with the small wiener....

 

[NotOpie]

Whatever happened to being led by the best and the brightest....

 

[Bub]

Whatever happened to being led by the best and the brightest....

Ted Cruz killed them and ate them with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

 

[Unsustainable]

Maybe -- except that [he] hasn't gone through sexual reassignment surgery. Which is the current burden of proof in the state of North Carolina to have your birth certificate changed. So this "reasonable" remedy is actually unavailable.

The actual "reasonable" course of action would have been to leave people alone. Don't start none, won't be none. But no: opportunistic politicians need bogeymen.

Finally, someone steps in with the too much government logic in here.

 

[Unsustainable]

Whatever happened to being led by the best and the brightest....

It's a popularity contest, best and brightest are too busy working.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

Ted Cruz killed them and ate them with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

before or after the sex scandal?

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

ted cruz is so far right, that even ppl in the conservative bastion that is calgary, where he is from, think he is extreme

 

[Brock Anton]

nick saban for president

 

[drganon]

 

[drganon]

On another slightly more serious note, I think I'm taking a break from this site and hockey in general until the start of next season.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

see you in quebec, friend