ridilon
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- Sep 14, 2017
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Howard/Ericcson/Cap
- Thread starter Richard Gibson
- Start date
ricky0034
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2010
- 15,112
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his best season was behind a defense core where Lidstrom and Rafalski were already retired and Lashoff,Kindl,Smith,Ian White,Quincey,and Ericsson all played in more than half of the teams games
yeah it was all the world class defense
I know these guys (ericsson, helm, Abdeklader, Howard) made more money than there performance would deserve however I don't understand the animosity many of you hold against them.
Retire91
Stevey Y you our Guy
- May 31, 2010
- 6,185
- 1,615
MBH
Players Play
Their contracts represented the final nails in the coffin of the Red Wings era.
The animosity should be reserved for Holland and Babcock (in some cases for helping these guys earn silly contracts).
But in a salary cap world, when you sign a deal, it's on you to live up to it.
MBH
Players Play
That 12-13 year... lockout year...
Was killer.
Howard was having a big year but still hadn't proven anything in the playoffs. We had Mrazek coming - already in the AHL and playing well.
We'd thrived in the cap system by using bargain basement goalies.
I knew Holland was going to over commit. I knew he'd pay Howard like he was a top goalie in the league.
And I just wasn't sold on him.
And then, as soon as the contract started, howard's numbers immediately dipped.
Henkka
Registered User
Quite sure you didn't know nothing.
Howard was signed before the 2013 playoffs, after 4 seasons in NHL, at 8th best in Sv%, 3rd most in Wins (vs other at same period) and 8th most in games started. Those were good numbers.
And his caphit was something like 7th-8th highest in NHL. Nothing wrong on those numbers. I remember very clearly, on that time it felt for a small bargain.
Then at same spring, he had a playoff run with 11 wins and 7 losses.
Then did get injured. And injured again after every comeback.
Never was the same again until for short stints.
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MBH
Players Play
At no time was Howard's contract a bargain.
Maybe in that one year where he only played 26 games and didn't get to have the second half slump.
That's about it.
waltdetroit
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2010
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The scuttlebutt I heard was that Jacobs held the commissary rights at the Olympia And was mad when Ilitch did not give them to him when the Joe was built
Retire91
Stevey Y you our Guy
- May 31, 2010
- 6,185
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11-13 we might have lost rafalski and lidstrom but you still had Zetts and Dayts on the team and Babcock running the team like a full roster of grinders. You still had a 25 year old helm. Players like Filp and Hudler rounded out a legit top 6, heck you are going back even far enough to one of Franzen's 50 point seasons. There was still a team in front of Howard padding his stats. Howard has never been more or less then any one of the goalies in a long string of average goalies who's stats ebbed and flowed with the team that was in front of them. If Howard was a world beater he wouldn't have show the drastic dips once the big forwards started dropping off.
Henkka
Registered User
So there was a good team in front of Howard "padding his stats".
I wonder how current Top10 team goalies "stats are padded".
Those must not be real talents too. Just stat-padded busts.
It's just f***ing time to admit, that healthy Howard had some good times, and injured Howard has had some bad times.
How is it so hard to admit that guy was good on the early days? Just get over it.
Twose two players, healthy vs. injured, are not the same player. Howard was healthy, when he signed and everything looked fine. What happened afterwards, was just f***ING BAD LUCK.
Bad luck afterwards does not make a bad signing on the signing moment.
Because you won't have a crystal ball.
You can be the besserwisser and yell anything shit afterwards, but at the signing moment it looked nothing but good.
I wonder how current Top10 team goalies "stats are padded".
Those must not be real talents too. Just stat-padded busts.
It's just f***ing time to admit, that healthy Howard had some good times, and injured Howard has had some bad times.
How is it so hard to admit that guy was good on the early days? Just get over it.
Twose two players, healthy vs. injured, are not the same player. Howard was healthy, when he signed and everything looked fine. What happened afterwards, was just f***ING BAD LUCK.
Bad luck afterwards does not make a bad signing on the signing moment.
Because you won't have a crystal ball.
You can be the besserwisser and yell anything shit afterwards, but at the signing moment it looked nothing but good.
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Retire91
Stevey Y you our Guy
- May 31, 2010
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I don't mind admitting Howard was good, I don't think I said he wasn't 'ever' good. I said specifically Howard was never a world beater. A true top 10 goalie can still be a top 10 goalie on a crap team. I agree sometimes goalies get in the top 10 just becuase of their team. Let's admit that Howard was the latter. Career wise he is not even sniffing top 10 goalie status. But he had a couple good seasons when there was a team in front of him.
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Go Wings
Registered User
Why would anyone miss Mrazek? The guy is 12-7 with a .903 SV% on a team with a top level defense. He got what he deserved the other night too.
Oh god, so much this.
3 years most. I read somewhere that between 2013-2015 that only 5 out of 31 goaltenders finished above the league average in each season but 29 out of the 31 finished above that line at least once. Good goaltending is easy to come by, consistent goaltending is an absolute nightmare.
Retire91
Stevey Y you our Guy
- May 31, 2010
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Because you have to leave space to shop the UFA market or trade. When you commit #1 salary to an average goaltender long term you log jam your opportunities.
Bringing in any good goaltender would require moving Howard and no one has wanted him during the time period you are talking about because he is overpaid for what he brings. Marzek didn't pan out as hoped and that whole thing became a mess anyway.
So wings lost in the draft and Holland's contract habits.
Bringing in any good goaltender would require moving Howard and no one has wanted him during the time period you are talking about because he is overpaid for what he brings. Marzek didn't pan out as hoped and that whole thing became a mess anyway.
So wings lost in the draft and Holland's contract habits.
saska sault
Registered User
I'd still take Petr over any of our goalies, and their cap hits. Him and Lehner were on my wish list even after we let Petr go. I wanted Lehner for a while, loved him in the Sault and figured once he figured out his demons his talent would shine through. Could always tell he had a passion for the game when he played.. Good video of him during a brawl vs Erie back in his OHL days, he reminds me of Ray Emery in that regard (Another Soo Alum).
Retire91
Stevey Y you our Guy
- May 31, 2010
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I can't say I 'miss' Mrazek but I would rather have him than Howard and I also felt that way at the time. Howard should have been traded or phased out and Mrazek should have been our sink or swim next goalie. I think Mrazek has turned it around enough to give us the hind site that the the team wouldn't have been worse off had we kept him. The whole two goalies at #1 contracts thing was Holland's fault and directly played into the organization not being able to be patient and moving him for nothing. Mrazek's performance was also largely to blame but still had gross mismanagement all over it typical of Holland's last half as GM.
Go Wings
Registered User
He would be just as bad as our current goalies. He wasn't good enough that's why he was let go.
The Wizard of Oz
Registered User
Mrazek still hasn’t turned to his early form. He’s constantly teetering on average behind a great team in Carolina. He’s better than either of our goalies this season but we didn’t lose anything irreplaceable.
